Soundtrack Central The best of VGM and other great soundtracks

Please sign up or log in for the best forum experience!

Dais Jun 5, 2009

Well, to be fair, it's not entirely facts - it's mainly assumptions that are pretty strongly based on evidence and previous behavior by the industry.

I'm mainly indignant because I believe that the mishandling of Castlevania can't be laid entirely at the feet of Igarashi, as many stupid decisions as he's made. The movies, the arcade games, the mobile games - I get the feeling that Konami doesn't know what to do with Castlevania, and Igarashi has nowhere near as much weight to throw around as Kojima does. He may have churned out a string of nearly identical games, each with their own flaws that range from the annoying to the enjoyment-crippling, but I believe him when he says (or implies) that Konami hasn't greenlighted the budget for the kind of games the fans have been clamoring for.

Pedrith Jun 5, 2009 (edited Jun 5, 2009)

I'm just going to add my two cents here for what it's worth.  I think that a total reboot on the Castlevania franchise is a very good thing because with all the games the timeline is rather confusing.  I should note that while I have been a gamer for 24 years starting with the nintendo, I have only played Super Castlevania IV, Symphony of the Night, Lament of Innocence and (with regret) Curse of Darkness.  I mostly played rpgs and really only played the Castlevania games in October to get in the mood for Halloween.

I also haven't played many of the other games mention (God of War? Devil May Cry) as most of my gaming days are far behind me, but that is not to say that I will not be playing games again just that I am more selective of the titles as my time is divided between other things.

One thing that has held my attention to the Castlevania franchise are the soundtracks.  I love my japanese import of Symphony of the Night OST and my Lament of Innocence OST along with a few Curse of Darkness tracks.  I am very keen to learn who is composing the Lords of Shadows soundtrack and hope that if it is set in a specific time period that they have music that fits properly.  That does not mean there can't be pulse pounding battle themes, nor does that mean there can't be old favourite themes such as Bloody Tears or Vampire Killer, but I hope that the composer would at least try and transcribe the music to work with in the setting.  Just look at the amazing job Leopold Stokoswski did transcribing Bach's Toccata and Fugue for orchestra, or the piano version of bloody tears on youtube.

My other thing that I hope they do is continue to have an optional stero audio setting as I do not have a fancy set up.

Will I buy the game when it comes out .  Yes.  Will hold off judgement until then.  Yes.


Sincerely,

David

Arcubalis Jun 5, 2009

I personally feel the trailer music is balls.  Sounds like pumped in cinematic orchestral nonsense.  If they're going to revolutionize the franchise or whatever, at least give us a throwback with some familiar themes or give us some rock elements or SOMETHING that is Castlevania.  The franchise is as old as it is because it's succesful, so I don't get it.

Anyway, Kojima was very unclear about his role on the title.  He said, "You're probably wondering what I'll be doing since it's being developed by Mercurysteam and produced by David Cox.  Well, I'm helping them give birth to this new Castlevania."  So, it sounds like he's "helping out" and boosting the game's profile by slapping his name on it.

SonicPanda Jun 6, 2009

Appraising the game itself and not the legacy it's taken on, it looks pleasant enough. You can definitely see the gameplay influence of God of War (though thank goodness, the protagonist seems less of a prick, or at the very least a more penitent one) and thematic influence of Shadow of the Colossus, and it seems solid in the video. That said, I'm not sitting on my hands waiting for it, either.

To answer Adam's question, I would at least like to see a traditional Metrovania (or perhaps an older-school CASTLEVANIA - I was a huge fan of CV Chronicles) appear in tandem with this; as has been said, to completely remove the reins from the series' most loving steward to the hands of complete strangers is incredibly risky. Nintendo may have given Metroid Prime to Retro Studios, but they had the good sense to hedge their bets with an in-house 2D Metroid at the same time. And while I've yet to get to Order of Ecclesia or Curse of Darkness, I enjoyed both Portrait of Ruin and Lament of Innocence quite a bit, so naturally I feel IGA's ouster was premature (to say nothing of Yamane, Koshiro, et al).

We'll see what happens, I suppose.

Dais Jun 6, 2009

nitpicky mood today (everyday)....I'm pretty sure there's been no official or even really unofficial word that IGA is "ousted" in any way - it's one of several things that are being extrapolated (along with word that it's a series reboot) that I've yet to see any actual evidence of. I think it started with a few people's wishful thinking and snowballed into "oh, this is probably what happened".

That said, I'm with the camp that thinks this might threaten the development (or promotion) of the 360/PS3 game starring Alucard, which we've heard so little about. After three games, it's probably a bit too early to announce another handheld title.

(although I've no idea if it's too early for a game-tester to leak screenshots of another DS game on GameFAQs and get fired as the result)

Adam Corn Jun 6, 2009

Arcubalis wrote:

I personally feel the trailer music is balls.  Sounds like pumped in cinematic orchestral nonsense.  If they're going to revolutionize the franchise or whatever, at least give us a throwback with some familiar themes or give us some rock elements or SOMETHING that is Castlevania.

It's trailer music, what do you expect?  What they have in place works better than if they had thrown in a rock arrangement of Vampire Killer or the like, which would have sounded forced.

Arcubalis wrote:

The franchise is as old as it is because it's succesful, so I don't get it.

I think most would argue that the 3D Castlevanias have NOT been successful.  So they're giving it another go in a new direction.  Personally I also think the series in general has become stale.  It might still sell to hardcore CV fans but I don't think there's been anything to attract a new audience or even interest casual fans of the series, such as myself.

From a gameplay perspective, entrenching the series in the current Metrovania style, sequel after sequel, is being as untrue to the series' roots as giving it a God of War'esque turn in 3D.

More important about the series for me is theme and atmosphere.  Considering the turn recent installments have taken, what with the anime style and hooker boots (old thread, sorry), even this mid-transformation, Dracula-less Lords of Shadow is more true to the series as I know and remember it.

FuryofFrog Jun 6, 2009

I think ultimately what would make me happiest is a MM9 style sequel. They have proven that they cannot bring CV into the new generation so they shouldn't. There is no reason that Dracula's Curse can't be considered one of the series apexes. I wouldn't mind returning for another go.

Dais Jun 6, 2009

Adam Corn wrote:

as I know and remember it.

99% of the time these are two different things.

Arcubalis Jun 6, 2009

Adam Corn wrote:
Arcubalis wrote:

I personally feel the trailer music is balls.  Sounds like pumped in cinematic orchestral nonsense.  If they're going to revolutionize the franchise or whatever, at least give us a throwback with some familiar themes or give us some rock elements or SOMETHING that is Castlevania.

It's trailer music, what do you expect?  What they have in place works better than if they had thrown in a rock arrangement of Vampire Killer or the like, which would have sounded forced.

Still would have been nice to have a gothic feel rather than the standard Hollywood approach they went with.  "Vampire Killer" would have been much better, and I don't think it would have sounded forced at all.

And about a series reboot, people "extrapolated" that from Dave Cox, the title's producer, saying just that without those words.  "This is a Castlevania like you've never seen.  We're doing things differently."

I personally loved Lament of Innocence, so in my mind it's pretty successful.  But I was referring more to the 2D style and the gothic rock soundtrack.

Chris Jun 23, 2009 (edited Jun 24, 2009)

I'm with Adam on the music. The trailer music seemed fine for its purpose and Vampire Killer would have been horribly cheesy in comparison.

I think it's time to take the series' musical direction towards something a bit more mature. Michiru Yamane sufficed during the PSX and DS titles, but I don't think she has what it takes to really accompany a new vision for the franchise. It's possible to create a strong and fresh orchestral score that still integrates some rock and gothic elements. Hopefully that's what they'll do here.

That said, no musician in the current Kojima Productions team seems ideal for taking on this project, so I hope they hire some new or external talent. MGS4 was fine in my opinion, but I'm not impressed that a three person team came up with just that and still needed help from GEM Impact. MGA was lame in comparison to the Hibino scores and ZOE1/2 are further examples of how the musicians just aren't that productive.

Idolores Jun 23, 2009 (edited Jun 23, 2009)

Chris wrote:

MGA was lame in comparison to the Hibino scores and ZOE1/2 are further examples of how the musicians just aren't that productive.

I'm always surprised with statements like these. I thought Hibino was responsible for ZOE 1 and 2's scores.

Even if he wasn't, you didn't like them? They rank among my favorites. May I ask why you didn't like them?

Edit: Nevermind. VGMdb reveals that several people worked on the ZOE series. Shows how much I know.

the_miker Jun 23, 2009

Idolores wrote:

I thought Hibino was responsible for ZOE 1 and 2's scores.

Hibino was responsible for about 1/3 of ZOE1's music and 1/4 of ZOE2's.  I've always thought his tracks were the best, with Akihiro Honda's tracks following right behind.

I do agree with Chris though.  If Konami wants to give Castlevania a proper rebirth, a new composer (or group of composers) is definitely in order.  I'm so tired of the SotN-style soundtracks lately.  I mean, I love Yamane's style and it definitely fits Castlevania but enough is enough.  Who's a good replacement though?  Out of all the "main" VGM composers out there, Yoshitaka Hirota and Akira Yamoka are the only two that come to mind.  They can both nail the dark/gothic sound and can definitely pump out some rockin' battle-sounding tracks too.  They will only work if Konami keeps up with the meh 3D games.  If they go back to 2D though, it's return of the Kukeiha Club or nothing!

Dais Jun 23, 2009

Chris wrote:

I'm with Adam on the music. The trailer music seemed fine for its purpose and Vampire Killer would have been horribly cheesy in comparison.

I think it's time to take the series' musical direction towards something a bit more mature. Michiru Yamane sufficed during the PSX and DS titles, but I don't think she has what it takes to really accompany a new vision for the franchise. It's possibly to create a strong and fresh orchestral score that still integrates some rock and gothic elements. Hopefully that's what they'll do here.

Exactly what constitutes "a bit more mature"? Especially as regards "a new vision of the franchise" when the "new vision" is a completely unrelated game?

also curious as to what parts of the SOTN and Curse of Darkness scores weren't mature. The Waltz of the Lazy Chair Room?

the_miker wrote:

I'm so tired of the SotN-style soundtracks lately.  I mean, I love Yamane's style and it definitely fits Castlevania but enough is enough.

what the hell are you talking about? "SOTN-style soundtracks"? You seriously think you can file Yamane's post-SOTN work into a single category?

Qui-Gon Joe Jun 24, 2009

Dais wrote:

You seriously think you can file Yamane's post-SOTN work into a single category?

Well I for one certainly find her scores since then a lot less varied and interesting.  Could just be me, though.

Ashley Winchester Jun 24, 2009

Dais wrote:

also curious as to what parts of the SOTN and Curse of Darkness scores weren't mature. The Waltz of the Lazy Chair Room?

You forgot "Proboscis Fairy" and "Pumpkin's Holiday." I rather like "Proboscis Fairy" though... I don't know why but it puts a smile on my face.

Chris Jun 24, 2009 (edited Jun 24, 2009)

Idolores wrote:
Chris wrote:

MGA was lame in comparison to the Hibino scores and ZOE1/2 are further examples of how the musicians just aren't that productive.

I'm always surprised with statements like these. I thought Hibino was responsible for ZOE 1 and 2's scores.

Even if he wasn't, you didn't like them? They rank among my favorites. May I ask why you didn't like them?

Edit: Nevermind. VGMdb reveals that several people worked on the ZOE series. Shows how much I know.

I liked them and gave a good review for ZOE2. I'm just not sure why it needed so many artists working intensely to produce so little music.

Exactly what constitutes "a bit more mature"? Especially as regards "a new vision of the franchise" when the "new vision" is a completely unrelated game?

At its heart, Castlevania has origins as a fun action franchise. However, it seems like they have tried to go down the more epic approach with recent console titles and didn't pull it off due to amateurish and cheesy producing. We all know Kojima and co can do this type of thing well though and, if Castlevania really wants to be a pioneering series again, I think it's great that he takes the reigns and ignores previous games. I'm sure there will still be more fan services with the DS instalments.

also curious as to what parts of the SOTN and Curse of Darkness scores weren't mature. The Waltz of the Lazy Chair Room?

Only gave it one or two listens, but I just heard derivative and boring rock and techno on Curse of Darkness. Lament of Innocence was a little better, but wildly inconsistent with its hideous ambient tracks. SotN is a great score for its time but would sound dated even with a technology booster on more recent projects.

Well I for one certainly find her scores since then a lot less varied and interesting.  Could just be me, though.

Amen to that.

Out of all the "main" VGM composers out there, Yoshitaka Hirota and Akira Yamoka are the only two that come to mind.  They can both nail the dark/gothic sound and can definitely pump out some rockin' battle-sounding tracks too.  They will only work if Konami keeps up with the meh 3D games.

Both would definitely be interesting. I'd especially love to see Hirota take on such a project.

Dais Jun 24, 2009

Chris wrote:

Exactly what constitutes "a bit more mature"? Especially as regards "a new vision of the franchise" when the "new vision" is a completely unrelated game?

At its heart, Castlevania has origins as a fun action franchise. However, it seems like they have tried to go down the more epic approach with recent console titles and didn't pull it off due to amateurish and cheesy producing. We all know Kojima and co can do this type of thing well though and, if Castlevania really wants to be a pioneering series again, I think it's great that he takes the reigns and ignores previous games. I'm sure there will still be more fan services with the DS instalments.

you can't seriously be trying to tell me that Lament of Innocence and Curse of Darkness are trying to be more epic than Patrick Stewart-narrated God of War-alike Lords of Shadow, which once again let me repeat has shown no relation to Castlevania other than the name and no involvement by Kojima other than PR.

Also when was Castlevania ever a pioneering series?

I mean, do you honestly believe this Konami press release?

Shown previously as Lords of Shadow in summer 2008 with a short teaser, Konami has kept under wraps its intention to radically take the Castlevania myth in a bold new direction until now. Konami has used E3 to showcase what it considers one of its most ambitious and innovative titles to date and reveal how it will present Castlevania to a wider audience of players hungry for genre-defining entertainment.

I don't, because I can tell it's 100% bull-f---ing-shit.

Chris wrote:

also curious as to what parts of the SOTN and Curse of Darkness scores weren't mature. The Waltz of the Lazy Chair Room?

Only gave it one or two listens, but I just heard derivative and boring rock and techno on Curse of Darkness. Lament of Innocence was a little better, but wildly inconsistent with its hideous ambient tracks.

care to cite me a few of these derivative, boring rock tracks (and the techno ones) in Curse of Darkness? Or the "hideous" ambient tracks in Lament of Innocence?

SotN is a great score for its time but would sound dated even with a technology booster on more recent projects.

what the does that even mean? are you saying that the composition of the actual music has been surpassed by modern video game scores? And if so, could you specify which ones?

Chris Jun 24, 2009 (edited Jun 24, 2009)

Well, we have clearly contrasting views on the franchise and its music, so I don't really think much productive will come from arguing about this. I guess everyone just has different opinions so I don't think it's worthwhile rebutting everything. But I'll respond to your points nonetheless...

Dais wrote:

you can't seriously be trying to tell me that Lament of Innocence and Curse of Darkness are trying to be more epic than Patrick Stewart-narrated God of War-alike Lords of Shadow, which once again let me repeat has shown no relation to Castlevania other than the name and no involvement by Kojima other than PR.

I never said it was trying to be more epic than that. Just that they had epic leanings with their graphical / musical style and stories. And a God of War emulation would be just horrible...

Also when was Castlevania ever a pioneering series?

Back in 1986 maybe? It was always a fun series, but at first it was a novel one too. I personally feel it lost it way since... Too much fan service.

I mean, do you honestly believe this Konami press release?

Shown previously as Lords of Shadow in summer 2008 with a short teaser, Konami has kept under wraps its intention to radically take the Castlevania myth in a bold new direction until now. Konami has used E3 to showcase what it considers one of its most ambitious and innovative titles to date and reveal how it will present Castlevania to a wider audience of players hungry for genre-defining entertainment.

I don't, because I can tell it's 100% bull-f---ing-shit.

Never read it until now, but seems pretty compatible with my views, yeah. I don't really see any problems since the DS will still keep on churning out the classic fan-tailored games.

Chris wrote:

care to cite me a few of these derivative, boring rock tracks (and the techno ones) in Curse of Darkness?

Well, I'm not a fan of the entire soundtrack. Even so-called classics like "Abandoned Castle" make me cringe a little and leave me feeling a tad emotionally underwhelmed. I still think they're good, but not enough for me at least when they're amidst so little other substance.

Or the "hideous" ambient tracks in Lament of Innocence?

Oh, that's easy. *looks at Cursed Memories, Death Flower Succubus, Castle Keep Entrance, Nightmare Aria, etc.*. I'm a fan of the ambience of Resident Evil, Silent Hill, and even Zelda, but these don't compare, even if sometimes just because of a few badly chosen samples. Material like "Fog-Enshrouded Nightscape", "Ghostly Theatre", and "House of Sacred Remains" are damn good though. Overall, though, it is a great soundtrack and you remind me I should listen to it more often. The ambience is worse in Curse of Darkness.

what the does that even mean? are you saying that the composition of the actual music has been surpassed by modern video game scores? And if so, could you specify which ones?

Symphony of the Night showed what Castlevania on the PlayStation could do, but times have moved on since then and there's a demand for more interactive and cinematic scores. For me, SotN was only the beginning of what should have been a revolution in Castlevania music and only really Lament of Innocence came close to surpassing it.

Eirikr Jun 24, 2009

Dais wrote:

I mean, do you honestly believe this Konami press release?

Shown previously as Lords of Shadow in summer 2008 with a short teaser, Konami has kept under wraps its intention to radically take the Castlevania myth in a bold new direction until now. Konami has used E3 to showcase what it considers one of its most ambitious and innovative titles to date and reveal how it will present Castlevania to a wider audience of players hungry for genre-defining entertainment.

I don't, because I can tell it's 100% bull-f---ing-shit.

Yeah, this thing has been in development by a Spanish studio for a while and it's pretty obvious it was shoehorned into being a Castlevania game of recent, especially given Kojima's mysterious involvement. You'd think they would have advertised that from the beginning. This sudden change in direction may or may have to do with the giant flop that was Judgment, I dunno.

Chris wrote:

And a God of War emulation would be just horrible...

Chris wrote:

a demand for more interactive and cinematic scores.

Unfortunately, that's likely what you're going to get. Be careful what you wish for! It's also likely that Lords of Shadow had a composer set before it became a Castlevania title, so much like how the gameplay looks (God of War derivative), I'm sure the score will likely be the same. I'd love to be wrong, though.

Chris Jun 24, 2009

Hmm, didn't know that history. Potentially very worrying but I'll keep my hopes up.

Dais Jun 24, 2009

Or the "hideous" ambient tracks in Lament of Innocence?

Oh, that's easy. *looks at Cursed Memories, Death Flower Succubus, Castle Keep Entrance, Nightmare Aria, etc.*. I'm a fan of the ambience of Resident Evil, Silent Hill, and even Zelda, but these don't compare, even if sometimes just because of a few badly chosen samples. Material like "Fog-Enshrouded Nightscape", "Ghostly Theatre", and "House of Sacred Remains" are damn good though. Overall, though, it is a great soundtrack and you remind me I should listen to it more often. The ambience is worse in Curse of Darkness.

Um, Cursed Memories is the save menu theme. Castle Keep Entrance is a cutscene theme. As for Death Flower Succubus, I fail to see how that even remotely counts as ambient. I mean, you could say it sounds like generic JRPG dramatic battle music, but it's not an ambient piece at all. I'll grant you Nightmare Aria, though.

Are you perhaps confusing the cutscene tracks with those actually used during the game? For your information, here they are:
Lament of Innocence: 1-01, 1-13, 1-19, 2-01, 2-02, 2-03, 2-06, 2-08
Curse of Darkness: 1-01, 1-03, 1-04, 1-06, 1-10, 1-13, 1-16, 1-18, 1-25, 2-02, 2-04, 2-06, 2-11, 2-12, 2-14, 2-15, 2-17, 2-18, 2-20, 2-23, 2-24

So yes, I suppose the ambience is worse during Cuirse of Darkness. At least when you're listening to the soundtrack instead of playing the game...

times have moved on since then and there's a demand for more interactive and cinematic scores.

This doesn't actually mean anything. I don't even know why you said it.

Ashley Winchester Jun 24, 2009 (edited Jun 24, 2009)

Dais wrote:

times have moved on since then and there's a demand for more interactive and cinematic scores.

This doesn't actually mean anything. I don't even know why you said it.

I have to admit, this is kind of a loaded statement; it's a lot like when my buddy said "I'm never working in a factory again" when he's only 20 and chances are he will work in a factory again at some point in his life.

The choice of wording - especially the word "cinematic" - is interesting. Honestly, when I see that word I usually run for the hills as words such as "overblown" and "movie-like" pop in my head. I didn't fall in love with VGM because of any kind of cinematic quality; the first two Ninja Gaidens may be the exception with their primitive use of cut scenes - which were awesome BTW. However, with the barrier between VGM and other types of music continuing to narrow I guess such is going to become more and more commonplace. (I have to give props to RE2's "Leon with Clare" here though.)

As for scores being more interactive, this is mostly subjective. Mega Man 2's score doesn't draw me into the experience any less than it originally did because of the *advancements* in sound technology/composition that more recent scores boast.

Back to Yamane, if they want "Lords of Shadow" to be more cinematic they really do need to look elsewhere - or at least have someone else do the cutscene music - six minutes of "Dracula Appears" from LoI proves that to me. However, I honestly feel the cut scene music on the LoI Soundtrack is a hell of a lot more "pitch black" intrusive to the experience than those on the CoD soundtrack. At least those tracks (speedbumps) are a lot shorter on CoD and incorporate some of the game's more prominate themes.

As for "Death Flower Succubus," I wouldn't consider it so much ambient as I would aimless.

Chris Jun 24, 2009 (edited Jun 25, 2009)

Sorry, drunk from a leaver's party. Will keep this brief...

Dais wrote:

Um, Cursed Memories is the save menu theme. Castle Keep Entrance is a cutscene theme. As for Death Flower Succubus, I fail to see how that even remotely counts as ambient. I mean, you could say it sounds like generic JRPG dramatic battle music, but it's not an ambient piece at all. I'll grant you Nightmare Aria, though.

Aimless works fine for me then.

Are you perhaps confusing the cutscene tracks with those actually used during the game? For your information, here they are:
Lament of Innocence: 1-01, 1-13, 1-19, 2-01, 2-02, 2-03, 2-06, 2-08
Curse of Darkness: 1-01, 1-03, 1-04, 1-06, 1-10, 1-13, 1-16, 1-18, 1-25, 2-02, 2-04, 2-06, 2-11, 2-12, 2-14, 2-15, 2-17, 2-18, 2-20, 2-23, 2-24

I'm not usually pedantic, but I thought cutscene tracks were used in the game. It's possible for tracks to be ambient without being cutscene tracks. Save menu themes and battle themes can fit this category nicely.

So yes, I suppose the ambience is worse during Cuirse of Darkness. At least when you're listening to the soundtrack instead of playing the game...

Wow, a concession. I applaud you! Oh wait...

This doesn't actually mean anything. I don't even know why you said it.

Very generic response... Ehrm, read anything from the industry or game companies and you'll realize it, in fact, does. Would you rather cutscenes with no underscoring or gameplay with no adaptivity? To me, you seem a little stuck in the 90s even though 2010 is round the corner. That's no really a bad thing since the 90s were pretty good for game music But it seems a little like calling humans the pinnacle of evolution. Decent enough, but there's still a lot to improve upon...

Same for Ashley (if he's saying my statement is loaded not Dais' dismissal) who has very interesting opinions but there's a bigger picture. Cinematic and interactive suck to you because you consider the stereotype, not the wider potential.

Related Albums

Board footer

Forums powered by FluxBB