As a genre, I find myself moving away from RPG's when it comes to gaming and music. Anywho, I though it be interesting to see the contrast between everyone's first RPG and what their No.1 Seed is.

First RPG: Final Fantasy VII (PS1)
Not really a big surprise, like many people the PS1 and the release of FFVII was a definate turning point. Still, looking back I can't help think the attraction was somewhat superficial; don't get me wrong it's a great/important game but I don't ever feel the need to revist this one as the experience will be with me forever regardless.

Favorite RPG: Wild Arms (PS1)
Probably the third RPG I played (after FFVII and FFVI) is the closest to my heart. It didn't have the hype and flash of FFVII or many of the other games Square put out afterwards, but the characters really spoke to me to the point I can easily overlook the rather basic combat and primitive 3D graphics. Goes without saying Naruke's score was also a large part of the exprience as well.

As fanboy-ish as it seems Wild Arms 2 is my second runner up for this category. Again, the important factors (story, characters, music) outperforming that which was lackluster (combat and combat graphics.) Media.Vision has yet to top either of these IMO.

Sure, why not?

First RPG: Final Fantasy (NES)
Not necessarily a great game (especially on its original platform) but for an eight-year old, it was the most amazing thing I had ever played.

Favorite RPG: Final Fantasy VI (SNES)

This is a pretty safe answer but to be honest, no RPG since has really matched the emotional power (and music) of this game. I was 13/14 when I first played it and I remember the first five hours of gameplay like it was yesterday.

First RPG: Dragon Warrior (NES)

I found the game brutally challenging for NES at the time, and felt the gameplay to be unique and rewarding. I loved the way they talking in archaic olde english, but that didn't stop me from naming my character things like "Idiot" or "Butthole" (remember, I was, like, eight years old). Never did beat the damn game, though, although I hear subsequent titles in the Dragon Warrior series offered nothing but improvements.

Favorite RPG(s): Hard to choose just one, but it's a tie between FFVII, Xenogears, and Vagrant Story. Too many reasons to list for each one.

First: Dragon Warrior 1

Yay for free NES game from Nintendo Power! Very primitive nowadays, but I played it all the way through. Very different at the time and fun for what it was.

Favorite: Valkyrie Profile

Can go a number of different ways here...FFVI, CT, Star Ocean 2, Suikoden 1, 2 or 5, but VP just hit at exactly the right time and made Tri-Ace go from godly to legendary. Then Star Ocean 3 hit and they came back down to Earth...But really, any of those games, I could make a great case for as #1.

First: Dragon Warrior

I had no idea what an RPG was at the time, but this game came free with my first subscription to Nintendo Power, and I loved the hell out of it.  It's certainly a bit frustrating by today's standards, but back then I really enjoyed grinding and exploring for some reason.

Favorite: Final Fantasy IX

It's tough picking a favorite between this and Mario RPG, Chrono Trigger, and FFVI, but in terms of overall character development and a compelling story, Final Fantasy IX is tops for me.  I absolutely love the characters, and thought this game was the pinnacle of the series.  I just finished playing through it again on my PSP last week!

First RPG: Ultima IV on the old PC

Favorite RPGs: Ultima IV, V, VII, Might and Magic III, VI, Heroes of Might and Magic II (SRPG), Morrowind, Final Fantasy Tactics (SRPG), Baldur's Gate Saga, Fallout

Runner-Ups: Final Fantasy IV, Lunar (Silver Star + Blue), Arc the Lad II, Icewind Dale, Shining and the Darkness, Shining Force, Chrono Trigger

current favorite (although might not make the all-time list, will have to finish it first): Etrian Odyssey

there are a bunch of other great RPGs I haven't listed (Dragon Warrior, FFVI, etc), but those that I did list are my all-time favorites! There are also a bunch of critically-acclaimed RPGs I've yet to play... as for moving away from RPGs, no. I still love em' If you're getting tired of RPGs then perhaps you're playing to many JPRGs? Myself, I like both, although as you can tell by my list my favorite are typically American RPGs, probably because I could get into the story much more. Also, US RPGs tend to be less linear. If you have a DS, and are looking for a "new" RPG experience, I totally recommend Etrian Odyssey. It's a throwback to classic RPG games. Might not be for you, but it's one of the best games I've played in a long long time.

cheers,

-avatar!

I personally never cared for the aesthetics of a lot of western RPG's to play them that seriously. In any case, for me, it's more a time issue and RPG's are probably the largest time-suckers in videogaming right now. Amazingly, I'd much sooner watch a movie nowadays, for the sole purpose that it's shorter (boy, I remember back when those roles were reversed for me...)

Since you seem to be a big FFIX nut I'll ask this question/challenge: can you explain to me why Kuja is a good villian, because he is honestly the one thing in this game I dislike. He seems very trite and stereotypical in my eyes.

You're right, I am pretty bored with the JRPG's - yet I don't think playing American RPG's is the answer I'm looking for either. Additionally, stuff like grinding for gold and waiting for drops in MMORPG isn't me either - I have the time to play I just don't want to get that wrapped up in a game like that.

First RPG: Advanced Dungeons & Dragons (pen and paper; introduced to this by a kid at school when I was in second grade)

First computer RPG: Wizardry: Proving Grounds of the Mad Overlord.  First game I remember having on the family's Apple //e.  This was probably around third or fourth grade.

First console RPG: Well, the line between adventure game and RPG is a little blurry.  I guess it would probably be Dragon Warrior.  I traded cartridges with a friend of a friend (I gave up A Boy and His Blob), and I never heard from him again.

Favorite RPGs:  If going by number of times played completely through, Ys I/II.  If going by most time on the play clock, Oblivion or Disgaea (over 400 hours on each).  If going by best overall feeling when playing, Skies of Arcadia.

First RPG: Phantasy Star on the Master System. A revelation, a game I could play for a whole day and have all those hours be progression, not restarts and replays. I still love it and think it's aged beautifully.

Favourite RPG: Dungeon Master - at the time on the Atari ST and Commodore Amiga. I think it's one of the most clever, intricately designed games ever made, while remaining fresh, fun and accessible. I still replay it a couple of times a year and I mess about a lot with the various remakes.

First - Final Fantasy IV (or II at the time)

My friend and I rented this on a whim, not even knowing what it was. I had never played anything like it before and I was completely taken by it. We would take character roles and read their dialogue in different voices. It was my first video game with a complex storyline (for its time); between the story, the aesthetics, and the gameplay system, it was a completely new experience for me and I was instantly hooked. I wish I could experience a feeling like that again, to be honest....

Favorite - Final Fantasy IV

My answer would probably change every time you asked me, because there are several strong contenders with one special draw that threatens to trump the others. But today--perhaps because I started off writing about it--I pick IV again. Sure, nostalgia has a lot to do with it, and yes, its story is a bit cliche, but above all else it, I just had so much fun playing through it again and again; even if I don't have specific reasons for making it stand above the others, today, it just does.

Ask me tomorrow, and it might be Final Fantasy VI, Chrono Trigger, Secret of Mana, Dragon Quest VIII, Skies of Arcadia or even Diablo.

(And for those surprised that I didn't pick Pokémon, I tend to think of the series separately from everything else.)

I enjoyed Kuja as a villain.  Early in the game, he was portrayed as an elegant, calculating narcissist.  He enjoyed quoting literature and flaunting his superiority over those he manipulated.  He was created and sent to Gaia in an effort to disrupt the flow of souls on the planet, so that Garland could merge Gaia and Terra to preserve the latter, but once on Gaia, Kuja became power-hungry and sought to defy Garland's will.  Upon killing Garland and realizing that he didn't have long to live, Kuja went a bit mad and set out to destroy both Terra and Gaia, asserting "I won't let this world exist without me!"  In his insanity, I felt like he was a cross between Kefka and Sephiroth, but ultimately a deeper character.  In his early appearances in the game, he always had a presence about him, and it was fun to watch him manipulate Brahne into carrying out his own agenda.  Me likey Kuja.

Nice topic, I like it...

Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars

The first RPG I ever played... and by accident too!  I had no idea what an RPG was back in the time (I remember giving my cousin a fitting description of the game: "Well, you uh... talk to people and stuff" )  I remember renting it from Blockbuster when they were sold out of Super Mario All-Star copies, heh.  This game just has such a wonderful atmosphere, it puts a smile on my face almost immediately, and that smile is plastered on for the duration of the adventure.  Never getting the slightest bit dull or boring, and always surprising, even when I revisited it for a last summer for a low level run.  A fantastic game and to this day one of my favourite RPGs, SNES games, and videogames overall.

Now this other question, hmm...

Valkyrie Profile

I'm really cross with this question.  I absolutly devoured Chrono Trigger when I was younger, and I'm sure even today I would still love it.  But I simply just haven't played it in a long enough time... well over five years since I owned my own copy (maybe if finding a nice one on eBay wasn't so damn expensive.)  So I nominate a game that I had similar emotions to from my more recent days.  A friend loaned me it on a whim, and while I had heard of it, I knew nothing about it ("Oh yea, Vagrant Story?  Oh wait, no...")  I was just stunned by this game.  A totally inventive theme, gorgeous artwork, rock-hard music a la F-ZERO X, and a story that really intrigued me to no end.  Valkyrie Profile is definetly one of the best experiences I've had in this sort of game alongside Super Mario RPG, Chrono Cross, CT, FFTA, and Ark of Napishtim.  And it was tough too, since I didn't use that 'event experience' and was busy training warriors for Asgard as well as my core party, leading to some very intense boss fights - the lack of which in other games had been exactly what had turned me off RPGs for the longest time.  I'm sorry to type so much about it, but like others here, when you find a game that you really 'sync' with, its hard not to keep talking/writing about it!

EDIT:

Also, I'm pleased to see that a lot of us have a hard time deciding on that favourite RPG.  I abandoned the genre for a few years and even now my time with it is nowhere near as much as it was in my youth, but the masterpieces in the genre have the ability to amaze even a cynic like myself.  Long live the RPG, I say!

I really enjoyed FFVI and want to play it again, but I thought the story got a bit convoluted, although not NEARLY anything like FFVII (which I found dull). Who knows, maybe next time around it will be different. As for CT, that was great, but don't really have the desire to play it again. Haven't played SoM nor DQVIII (definitely want to play DQVIII). Skies of Arcadia = awesome! The one thing that keeps it from being on my all-time favorite list is the random battles. Fly for two seconds, then battle. Fly for two seconds, then battle. Fly for two seconds, then battle. Fly for two seconds, then battle... gets old very VERY quickly. As for Diablo, that is also awesome! I found it a little too short and easy, hence it's not on my all-time list, but definitely both Diablo and SoA are excellent and worth playing. Also, Diablo II is better than Diablo, although that too has its shortcomings. Good list.

cheers,

-avatar!

edit: I should also add that Fire Emblem for the GBA and GC are awesome! Not sure they would make my all-time favorite list, but definitely runner-up!

Well, how do you know American RPGs aren't the answer if you haven't tried them? They come in different flavors If you want something short and sweet you could try Diablo. If you want something long and majestic try Morrowind or Oblivion. If you want to play something great and "different", try Fallout. Of course, there are plenty of games in between to suite anyone's taste!

cheers,

-avatar!

You just had to bring up Diablo, didn't you? Well, you didn't but I've already put in my time with the Big D - spent two years playing Diablo II, was totally hooked on it. It was fun while it lasted - ah memories of bygone days, I will enjoy them. I'm rather hesitant of online games because I tend to overdo things like that.

I should mention while I've lost interest in RPGs and games I just find it hard to spend money on them. So a lot of this bitching is the result of something I'm unwilling to do anything about because of other interests. So, I'm really the boy who cried wolf if anything.

The only Western RPG I loved is indeed my absolute favorite game of all time. Ultima VI (SNES port). I still believe it's was incredible considering its release date (1993).

First RPG was FFII or Glory of HeraclesII.

First RPG:  Dragon Warrior
Like many others I got this with a Nintendo Power description and it introduced me to the genre.  I found the unconventional (for the time) gameplay intriguing but was not at a great loss when I traded it for Final Fantasy I (which interestingly I didn't put nearly as much time into... I think the first person battle perspective in DW appealed to me more).

Favorite RPG:  Final Fantasy VI
I too very clearly remember those first moments with the opening credits and Narshe and being completely taken.  This was the title that made me consider myself an RPG fan, and along with Ys I & II for Turbo CD is the only one I'm inclined to play through again in its original form.

Excellent but overshadowed by FFVI:
Ys Books I & II:  Aesthetically this was so much ahead of everything else in its time I couldn't help but be amazed.  Bonus points for the simple yet fun action.

Phantasy Star I:  I first played this a couple years after getting a Genesis on the 8-bit adapter and still it managed to hook me.

Chrono Trigger:  This played second-fiddle to FFVI throughout but the detailed and varied environments really drew you in and Frog's theme and the cliff-cleaving scene remain among my favorites of any RPG.

I also neglected to mention F.F.VI (well, Final Fantasy III as far as I'm concerned - I won't have considered myself playing VI until I buff up my Japanese considerably and find a SFC!)  In terms of a grand sense of scale not only in landscape but also in plot, no other RPG I've played mnages to do both at once and as well.  And it can't hurt being the game that led me to VGM in the first place

First: Secret of Mana / Final Fantasy VI

I say both because when I was younger I rented them both from a local video store for a weekend. The funny thing was at first I hated FF6. I got as far as Figaro Castle and then couldn't figure out how to progress the story further (I had trouble seeing the staircases leading to the outer grounds of the castle). So I wandered around the castle never getting anywhere. I never did play it the rest of that weekend, I got too absorbed into everything that is so good about Mana. SoM had to be played with 3 people to be fully enjoyed. I think we spent enough cash to buy the damn catridge just renting it to finish it off.

Favorite: Earthbound

Hands down. Take everything that makes Dragon Quest great and instead throw in a bunch of kids fighting aliens in a crazy modern setting. I think this is the one game I played the most times through of the SNES era.

How can you not love a game where a New Age Retro-Hippie brushes his teeth in the middle of battle and paralyzes you with the gleam off his sparkling chompers?!

.

Or beating said hippie over the head with cracked bat until he "returns to normal"? It's like back-alley surgery!

First: Final Fantasy IV. Technically I played a bit of Final Fantasy and Dragon Warrior on NES when they came out, but really didn't see the appeal (only played 2-3 hours of each). It wouldn’t be until a few years later that I’d stumble upon FFIV and absolutely love it. Since then, I’ve played most console rpgs and enjoying a lot of them.

Favorite: Chrono Trigger, Chrono Cross, Xenogears, Xenosaga 1-2-3. Yes, there seems to be a pattern here... I'm sure there are a couple more but I'll have to go through my collection and remember the ones I've sold and the one I rented during the 16bit era (too poor then to buy more than 1 game/year!) For example, I remember renting Secret of Mana more than half a dozen times during the following years it came out because I enjoyed it so much.

First: one of the NES Dragon Warriors.  It wasn't the first... maybe III or IV?  Regardless, I found it awful and boring and avoided anything in the RPG genre until I saw some of FF7.  At that point I didn't have a Playstation, so I got the PC port of the game and played through it that way.  That's kind of what finally got me hooked into the genre.

Favorite goes to Skies of Arcadia, which does basically everything I want in an RPG.  The Gamecube port just made it even sweeter (even if the music took a slight hit).  Others that are really really high on my list are Panzer Dragoon Saga, Shadow Hearts II, and FF6/7/10.  I also have an unnatural love for Chrono Cross despite its glaring faults.

First RPG: Dragon Warrior (NES)

I have no idea how I beat this when I was a kid. I still have nightmares of orange text and shaky screen. THOU ART DEAD. *shudders*

Favorite RPG: Final Fantasy III (SNES)

I don't have anything to say that hasn't already been said, but basically FFIII = perfect RPG experience for me. There were a couple of times where my game got erased (three cheers for cart batteries!) and I immediately just started right up again. I've probably spent upwards of 300 hours with this game or something ridiculous like that.

That's kinda how my story goes. I borrowed Dragon Warrior back in my NES days, but it didn't quite hook me at the time, either. Guess I wasn't very patient back then.

But in 1994, along came a game called Final Fantasy 3us/6j. And reviews were great. "Hmmm", I tell myself, "is there something I'm missing here?" I wanted to rent this game and see what the appeal was.

Alas...my local video store didn't have it. But they DID have FF2us/4j. "Alright, I'll rent this one. If I like it, I bet I'll like FF3 also."

I started playing at 8:30 that night.

It was 4:30 in the morning before I stopped.

The RPG genre had me hook, line, and sinker.

...and yes, I DID go back to Dragon Warrior, playing the GBC remake on my GBA, and had a nice little time with it. Didn't really care for DW2, though. DW3, however...that was the first game I BOUGHT for my GBA, and I do not regret that one bit!

Side note: I did not realize how lucky I was at the time, but not long after I got the RPG bug, I rented DW4 when visiting a friend. Yes, DW4, the rare-as-hen's-teeth game! And that was FUN. Didn't get to finish it, though.
Like many, I was highly anticipating the English release of the PS1 remake, and was disappointed that it didn't happen after all. Here's hoping we have better luck with the DS version.

Okay, side trip finished. Focus, SquareTex, focus!

As for favorite...? Whew...tough order.
But, I'll also have to say Final Fantasy IX, if for only one reason. Normally with an RPG, I'll need to wait a bit before I jump back into it for another go-around, if ever. Not with FF9, though. That world so absolutely charmed me, that within a day or so of finishing, I was right back again for more.

I believe I have you all beat:

First RPG: Final Fantasy Mystic Quest (woots!)

A kid down the street was playing it one time and I couldn't help but be intrigued by the gameplay.  Later on, a friend of mine had it and I bought it off him for 20 bucks.  Beat it in about a week and then traded him that one for Final Fantasy IV.  I think I came out on top of that deal, but I will always remember FFMQ as my "gateway drug".  The music ROCKED btw.

Favourite RPG: Pretty much any one from the SNES era.  There's too many to name:  FFIV & VI & MQ, Chrono Trigger, Earthbound, Terranigma (F*** you Europe), Lufia II, Illusion of Gaia, Secret of Mana, Super Mario RPG, E.V.O. (action/rpg-ish).  Honestly, I can't pick just one.  I love each one for different reasons.  If I absolutely had to pick one, It would probably be Final Fantasy IV.  I played it again on the GBA and found myself completely involved with it.  If a game can do that multiple times, it's gold. 

Wife's first RPG: Chrono Trigger.

Wife's favourite RPG:  Chrono Trigger.  A close second (if this can even be considered an RPG, which probably it isn't) is Dragon Quest:  Rocket Slime.  We had so much fun playing that one together.

First RPG: Willow (NES)/Secret of Mana (SNES) - Willow was technically my first RPG before I became learned on what RPGs were and Secret of Mana was the first RPG that I intentionally sought out and enjoyed a great deal.  Anyways, I never got too far in Willow, though it was certainly an interesting game.  I just remember getting scared whenever an enemy showed up because the music would become urgent and the grass would start swaying violently.  And yet it's all about magical acorns, right?  Anyways, Secret of Mana was pretty much the eye-opener of the genre for me.  From there I began to actively seek out any and all RPGs.  It's still one of the most aesthetically beautiful RPGs of the genre and the title opener (Fear of the Angels ftw?) is totally classic.

Favorite RPG: Final Fantasy VI (SNES) - I could also pick Chrono Trigger, Earthbound, or Super Mario RPG, but I've come to realize that the impact which Final Fantasy VI had on my expectations of all RPGs from that day forth was huge.  Amazing music, amazing cast, engrossing experience.  I used to play it with the Game Genie and I used to have the five codes (one of them being for infinite money, one for level 99 on all characters, etc) memorized.  Objectively I think that Chrono Trigger might be the most polished and well-constructed RPG ever made, but I do prefer the music and cast of FFVI, and since it does predate CT, I think that FFVI was more progressive/daring in many respects.  Put simply, FFVI is still the RPG by which I judge all others.  It's a game that was as innovative as it was molded according to the lessons learned from Final Fantasy games past.  FFVII may have been more revolutionary in terms of making RPGs more mainstream, but I believe that FFVI was more evolutionary.  Everything that you expect from a good JRPG can *still* be found in FFVI.

Also, I think that checking out WRPGs could be a good way to reinvigorate your interest in RPGs.  I'd suggest Deus Ex, System Shock 2, Fallout 1/2, Planescape: Torment (although I have yet to finish it), and KOTOR 1/2.  Deus Ex in particular would definitely make my top ten favorite RPGs of all time.  It's an ambitious game with an awesome atmosphere and a deliciously complex plot chock full of, you guessed it, conspiracies.  I often find the high fantasy aka LOTR-inspired stuff to be boring in western RPGs, perhaps because I'm used to the more imaginative way that JRPGs handle swords and sorcery elements.  Sci-fi however tends to work out a lot better for me whether it's cyberpunk, post-apocalyptic, or based in outer space.

First RPG: Secret of Mana / Final Fantasy Mystic Quest

My memory's a bit hazy on my first real RPG, but I do remember that my experience with Secret of Mana was the first time I even heard of the term. My brother's friend introduced us to SoM shortly after it came out, and my brother and I were immediately drawn in by the music and the unique (to us, at the time) level-up gameplay. After that, we actively began searching for RPGs.

That search led us to tons of classic RPGs that we had missed. I think my brother got and played through the first Final Fantasy, but I didn't start playing "real" RPGs until Mystic Quest.

Favorite RPG: Final Fantasy VI

This was an easy choice. FFVI was the game that really cemented my love for RPGs. In hindsight, the gameplay wasn't as complex as some of the other entries in the series. However, what it lacked in gameplay was made up for with its involving story, majestic soundtrack, and interesting, relatable characters (no bland emo types here, thank you very much).

I think I played most of the major SNES-era RPGs (Earthbound, Super Mario RPG, Lufia II, Chrono Trigger), but my interest waned somewhat during the PS1&2 eras, during which I mostly played just Square RPGs. The DS has rekindled my love for the genre, however.

I loved the light-hearted tone of the first few discs, but after a while it all got way too depressing. I mean, was there any place in that game that didn't get blown up? I also didn't buy Kuja's "redemption." In fact, I generally can't stand any attempt to redeem RPG villains, since such attempts always fall flat (see also: Seifer, Ghaleon, Krelian). All that said, FFIX still had the most charming cast of the PS1 FFs, and I had a ton of fun playing through the game.

First RPG: Centauri Alliance (Apple IIe)

A first-person Sci-Fi RPG with a hex based battle system, no story, inter-planetary travel, and multiple character classes, I suspect my hatred of PC games first formed here.  I poured so many hours of my life into this horrible game and accomplished nothing.  I want my childhood back, Broderbund.

Favorite RPG: Chrono Trigger (SNES)

The perfect synthesis of character design, narrative, graphics, gameplay, and music, Chrono Trigger is still the... Best.  Game.  Ever.

First RPG: Phantasy Star 1 for the Master System. This game (as well as the other three in the original PS series) has an almost mythological status for me. Definitely the best RPG of the 8-bit era (although the excellent Famicom FF3 is close behind).

Favourite RPG: Persona 2 Innocent Sin/Eternal Punishment for the PS1. Essentially one game, this is the most awesome RPG-experience for me. The characters, story, atmosphere, music, philosophy, and world of this game just clicks 100% with me. Close runner-ups would be Phantasy Star 4, Shadow Hearts 1 & 2, Persona 3, Final Fantasy 3, 4, and 6.

As for Chrono Trigger, I always thought that one was overrated. It was a very good RPG, but in most essential components (story, characters, music, overall mood, etc.) I thought it was a lesser cousin of FF6.

I revived this thread because I just picked up a copy of Final Fantasy Mystic Quest the other day for $6. It's easily worth that and FFMQ is really a gateway drug because it's a gateway game. It dumbfounds me how many people don't realize it's not meant to challenge the likes of FFIV or VI but lead you to them.

And yes, the music does rock.

SO glad I bought the soundtrack off of you. I wish for an arrange album every day.

The old games are often still great, although I get tired of random battles (the bane of FF games).
So, what RPGs are people currently playing? I am pretty busy these days with my research, taking advanced quantum mechanics, and spending time with a gorgeous lady
yes, life is pretty good, although it does get stressful some times. Very little time to be had, but I will say that eventually I do want to play Demon's Souls. I played a little of it and very much enjoyed it.

cheers,

-avatar!

I've been doing Baldur's Gate, and P3 as per usual. I plan to finally finish Earthbound so I can get around to playing Mother 3, which is supposed to be  the diametric opposite to Earthbound (which is hard for me to imagine).

Demon's Souls looks really cool, but that one will definitely have to wait.

I found it hilarious and fun to exploit the systems in Fallout and have learned to do so in Baldur's Gate. I leave my Paladin outside, then take Minsc and Imoen and have them break into every house in whatever town I am in. I have Minsc go barehanded and beat the tar out of the occupants until they are unconscious, then I have Imoen raid them of any valuables. Since no one sees the act performed, and because no one is injured in any way, my paladin gets off scot free without any reputation lost! It's great!