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The Mega Man Mega Thread: Type, for everlasting debate!

Angela wrote:

Yeah.  The numerous discussions very nearly warrants its own designated thread.  Too bad Adam couldn't somehow pick out all the MM-related posts, and plunk them into a newly created topic titled "The Mega Man Mega Thread." smile

Taking the initiative here. Let's funnel our Mega Musings here and give the other thread a chance to breathe. I'm working on something related to the X games, but it'll take awhile.

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Re: The Mega Man Mega Thread: Type, for everlasting debate!

Good man.  I'll follow the initiative suit too, and transfer my musings of Mega Mans 1-5 from the other thread to here.  I'll spread 'em out over two consecutive posts tonight, with Mega Man 6 to follow tomorrow.  I'll leave you all to repeat your rebukes at your leisure. :)

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7/19/2010
Since playing through Mega Man 9 and 10, I've developed the nostalgic itch to play through the first six NES titles in the main series again.  (We'll see if I can fit in 7 and 8 at a later time.)

I've already beaten the first Mega Man, and I'm just starting MM2.  Although I admit to using save states after completing levels (and reloading only if I go through my entire cache of lives from a single playthrough), I'm determined not to use them at all in-game.  I refuse to use any of the upgrade passwords as well.  That being said, the games are seriously whopping my ass.  Either I'm not remembering the games being this difficult, or I'm just getting old.  I'm loving it.

Quick Man's beams can go to hell, though.  Maybe I should've taken out Flash Man first.

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7/30/2010
I'd just finished up Mega Man 2 myself, and yeah, comparative to MM1, it was pretty much a cakewalk.  There were still some problem areas I had to attempt multiple times, such as Quick Man's stage beams, that one super tight spiked-filled screen drop in Wily Castle 2, and yeah, that damned turret boss..... but once I found my groove, everything began to click again, and I tore through with moderate ease.  Mind you, I was playing on Normal; I'm halfway tempted to play through the game again on Difficult before progressing to MM3.

And of course, after defeating Wily, I just had to exclaim: "DEAD.  Your mother."

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8/1/2010
I finished up Mega Man 3 over the weekend.  The experience can best be summed up in one word: exhausting.

Maybe I'm hitting a saturation point with the series, but MM3 dragged on far longer than I wanted it to.  I'd completely forgotten about the "Doc Robot" bosses, and having to revisit those four stages again (two of which I despise: Shadow and Gemini), in addition to the Wily Castle stages tired me out quickly.

In terms of difficulty, I think I did okay.  Of course, it's nowhere near the unforgiving challenge of MM1 (I really wished I'd remembered about the rapid Select button trick as I was playing), I didn't find it that much harder than MM2 on Normal.  The robot masters still seemed to go down relatively fast against their respective weaknesses (though not as quick as the ridiculous one or two shots it took in MM2, thankfully), and as XLord said, the ability to carry up to nine E-Tanks made for a fairly breezy endeavor. (Even though I only used two total throughout the game.)  I do appreciate that it's better balanced due to the fact that they didn't bombard you with stupid amounts of power-ups like MM2.

Soundtrack-wise, I'm reminded by how much I love Snake Man, Spark Man, and Hard Man's themes.  The rest, not so much.  It's certainly got the best "Get A Weapon" theme out of all six games, though, and I have a new-found appreciation for the arranged version featured in the 20th Anniversary Rock Arrange Version album.   

Other observations:

-I thank technical limitations for allowing Komasaburo to have only three tops onscreen at once.
-Is it just me, or did it always look like Hammer Joe was tossing a black-headed sperm?  Yeah, it's just me.
-Giant Springer is just too cute.
-Damn, is the pause/weapons menu off-putting.  The horizontal layout is cramped as all get-out.  I also don't remember having to go in and out of the menu so many times as I have in this game than other titles.

Next up: Mega Man 4, which I've always regarded as my personal favorite in the NES series.  Lest that's just nostalgia clouding my judgment.  We'll see.

Last edited by Angela (Aug 18, 2010)

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Re: The Mega Man Mega Thread: Type, for everlasting debate!

8/7/2010
This week was devoted to wiping the floor with Cossack's and Wily's asses.  I'm delighted to report that the game holds up as well as I remembered.  Even more so, I think.

Everything just FEELS right with Mega Man 4.   While both games are proportionally longer in length than Mega Man 2, MM3 was labored and tedious, whereas MM4 feels more sensibly designed and better paced.  Cossack's stages beat the crud out of the Doc Robot retreads, and every other featured stage is just as enjoyable.  I love the addition of the new Mega Buster, irritating sound effect and all, and the slide move feels more naturally integrated into the level design.   In a sense, I consider MM4 to be the true successor to MM2.

The biggest plus is the new pause/weapons menu.  The one-page layout makes its welcome debut here, allowing a user interface that's significantly cleaner and far more efficient.  Best of all, they've fixed up Mega Man's game-disrupting 'teleport warp' animation every time you head in and out of the menu: players can once again grip those ladders with confidence!  Capcom also had the good sense to take out the obnoxious 'selection' sound effect when sifting through the menu itself, opting instead for a silent select.  Their decision to put the sound back into subsequent games always left me baffled.

And then there's the music.  Considering how let down I was with Bunbun's work in MM3, it's surprising how on top of his game he is here.  Either that, or Fujii's really picked up the slack, because I'm enamored with the entire soundtrack.  (I'd always wanted to hear another full-fledged Mega Man soundtrack from Ojalin; her Desert Commando was my favorite from MM10.)  The continuity in themes drives home the MM2 successor feel, as evidenced by the return of the original Game Start theme and the MM2 Title song that serves as the foundation for MM4's Staff Roll.  It's got the catchiest Stage Select theme in the entire series (Sword-Bolt's arranged version is AWESOME), and the melody's subtle reprisal is appreciated during the Ending theme.  Cossack Stage 2, Skull Man, Pharaoh Man, and Dive Man take top musical honors.

Other observations:

-I feel sorry for Battan.  Forever doomed to take the pitfall for Mega Man's benefit.

-It seemed I'd gotten an absurd amount of E-Tanks from Eddie.  I didn't keep track of the exact amount, but it had to have been at least four from the single playthrough.  Was I just that lucky?

-On Cossack Stage 2, I made the fatal mistake of forgetting that you can't freely control Rush Jet like in MM3. It was with some degree of unpleasantness that I tried doubling back across the big chasm after missing the first weapon capsule refill, only to believe that my d-pad somehow got 'stuck' on the right position.  Panicking, I paused the game in mid-flight, realizing a split second too late that that wasn't a very bright thing to do.  Unpaused, and down I went.  Dead.

-The death cloud that hangs over Wily's destructed castle at the end is the DA BOMB.

What's it say when I want to put off playing the next two games, and just want to tear through Mega Man 4 again?  So good.

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8/16/2010
Just put the lid on Mega Man 5 -- and while it wasn't exactly a chore to play through, it didn't instill me with the same sense of enjoyment that MM2 and MM4 did either.  The series is clearly going through the motions at this point.  I'll give the game this much, though; it seemed to finish up at a fairly brisk clip.  Certainly moreso than MM3.

Outside of the reversed polarity bit in Gravity Man's level, there really wasn't anything noteworthy to speak of about MM5's stage designs or boss battles.  The jet ski section in Wave Man's stage was a nice precursor for what's to come in the X series, but I took no pleasure in it here; I died more frustrating deaths at this section than anywhere else in the game. 

With every attempt at refinement, there's an equal measure of detriment.  I love the edgy new look of the Mega Buster shot, but the changed color scheme for when Mega Man flashes when charging irks me with distraction.  I like how Rush Coil drops down much quicker than before, but I despise his new spring jump.  I can't even remember having to use Rush Jet, so having the ability to slow down its acceleration was a moot point.  And the scrolling speed when dropping into new screen areas is refreshingly fast, but allowed for very little reaction time when I took the plunge into that one spikey-balled filled drop in Wily's castle.

The music is the weakest in the series so far.  I didn't quite take to Mari Yamaguchi's Cybersheep Dream in MM10, so I'd say she's par for the course as my least favorite Mega Man composer.  Save for Gyro Man and the new Dr. Wily stage theme (which admittedly is very good), I can't even claim to be indifferent to the rest of the soundtrack.  I outright HATE Star Man, for instance.

Other observations:

-Where MM4 was plentiful with the E-Tanks, MM5 seemed to be rife with extra lives.  Besides the numerous placements of lives in the stages themselves, enemies were dropping them left and right.  Seriously, I hit my nine life cap after the first three robot master levels.
-Not that I had any use for him, but I was two letters away from getting the Beat Adapter.
-My initial interpretation of Mizzile lead me to believe that it's one of the most aesthetically STRANGEST enemies I've seen in the series.  In sprite form and onscreen, I honestly thought the top two dots and lines were its eyes and mouth -- and its ACTUAL eyes either a bra, or a tuxedo vest/bowtie ensemble!

Last edited by Angela (Aug 18, 2010)

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Re: The Mega Man Mega Thread: Type, for everlasting debate!

Finally got you, you German bastard.  Wait, "To Be Continued"?!  I FAILD!!!

Despite a fair amount of problems (which I'm expecting SonicPanda to go at further - and with a bat), I ended up enjoying Mega Man 6 a bit more than MM5. 

First things first.  I need to know if anyone can substantiate my claim that the controls in this one are slightly..... borked.  Now, this is just me stepping off of the five games before it, so I've almost certainly become hyper-sensitive to even the most minute changes from title to title.  A few jumps and shots just didn't seem to be registering 100%, and the slide is no longer the pull-off-in-a-pinch maneuver that it used to be.  I need some validation: is it just me?

Second, what have they done to the Mega Buster's charge shot sound effect?  I'll tell you what they've done: they totally PUSSIFED it.  MM4's blast sounded like the appropriately plump laser that it was, and along with MM5's deadly-cool new look, they gave it even more pizazz with its higher-powered "fwoosh".  And now, they've reverted it into a sound that's no different than a regular pellet shot?  What the frack, Capcom?

I hated, HATED playing menu roulette with the Rush JET and POW adapters.  They're novel concepts that are actually pretty fun to use, even if the former does feel like it breaks the game some -- but they really needed to find a way to streamline the switching between them.  (Maybe, I dunno, assign it to the Select button?)  *SO* many freaken instances where you needed to swap them in and out.  Drove me nuts.

Speaking of those adapters (sorry, I just can't bring myself to use the "o" spelling), you know that secret passageway in Mr. X's first stage where you have to use Rush POW to break through?  I felt a pang of triumphant pride for being able to pick up the physics of those flip-flopping platforms beforehand, and getting through that door in a single try without falling.  Those four additional extra lives sure tasted good going down.

There's a special place in hell reserved for the developer responsible for the coil spring section in Plant Man's stage.  A part so seemingly simple made excruciatingly difficult because it was impossible to gauge the timing of the spring's depression to gain the needed extra boost.  I can't believe how many lives I've had to waste here; after my sixth botched bounce, I finally said screw it.  This was the one and only time throughout all six games where I resorted to using an instant save state.

SonicPanda wrote:

[NOTE: Anything positive I have to say about MM6 will be almost exclusively related to its soundtrack.]

Reviewing what I'd just wrote above, I may be apt to agree.  Yuko Takehara's soundtrack?  In a word, TERRIFIC.  Recall here and here how much I enjoyed her MM10 contribution Polluted Pump.  Couple that with how much I dislike Yamaguchi's Cybersheep Dream and MM5 score, and you can see how I would consider Takehara to be a sort of antithesis to Yamaguchi.  I'm delighted that Yuko was able to steer the series back toward a musical sensibility that I can really enjoy.

As games, I would categorically measure MM5 and MM6 as equals.  But as a VGM fan, I'm yet again reminded how the intangibility of a great score can instantly make a game better.  Mega Man, in particular, is a series that's simply more fun to play with good music, and MM6 is loaded with 'em.  Plant Man, Tomahawk Man, and Yamato Man -- all three make a beeline straight to the top of my best songs list, with honorable mentions going to Flame Man and Dr. Wily's Stage.  Oh, and the Ending theme comprised of that sweet character theme medley?  Cherry topped with cream.

Final observations:

-They've brought the scrolling speed when dropping into new screen areas back down to normal.  Oh well.  It's comfortable and familiar..... until they speed it up again for MM9, of course.
-Huzzah for the Energy Balancer!
-For a while there, it seemed the series was dwindling in terms of having huge, gnarly bosses on display.  We really needed more guys like Mechazaurus.  What an awesome design.
-I was getting a disappointing sense of déjà vu during the final Wily battle.  Isn't this EXACTLY the same as in MM5?  Except he lost the plasma ball drop/left-right spread attack.  Bad Capcom!  Lazy!
-I'll be damned if Blizzard Man isn't Takehara's spiritual successor to Mega Man X's Chill Penguin.  Uncanny.

-I really wanted to play through MM9 and MM10 again before calling final judgment on the 8-bit series, but I think I'm more than ready to rank the NES titles.  Let the controversy commence!

Gamewise:
MM4 >> MM2 >>> MM6 > MM5 = MM3 >> MM1

Musically:
MM4 >>> MM2 = MM6 >> MM3 > MM1 > MM5

Last edited by Angela (Nov 15, 2010)

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Re: The Mega Man Mega Thread: Type, for everlasting debate!

Angela wrote:

I need some validation: is it just me?

I think so, unfortunately. I've played a lot of MM6 and I hadn't noticed a difference.

I hated, HATED playing menu roulette with the Rush JET and POW adapters.

For what it's worth, you can usually skip the animations if you keep jamming the start button. It doesn't seem to be completely consistent as to whether it acknowledges your attempts to skip or not.

Speaking of those adapters (sorry, I just can't bring myself to use the "o" spelling), you know that secret passageway in Mr. X's first stage where you have to use Rush POW to break through?  I felt a pang of triumphant pride for being able to pick up the physics of those flip-flopping platforms beforehand, and getting through that door in a single try without falling.  Those four additional extra lives sure tasted good going down.

I know I've spent far more than four lives trying to pull that off. Good show.

There's a special place in hell reserved for the developer responsible for the coil spring section in Plant Man's stage.  A part so seemingly simple made excruciatingly difficult because it was impossible to gauge the timing of the spring's depression to gain the needed extra boost.  I can't believe how many lives I've had to waste here; after my sixth botched bounce, I finally said screw it.  This was the one and only time throughout all six games where I resorted to using an instant save state.

It may not have been intuitive, but if you simply hold the A button down while bouncing on the springs, you'll bounce to maximum height.

Gamewise:
MM4 >> MM2 >>> MM6 > MM5 = MM3 >> MM1

Musically:
MM4 >>> MM2 = MM6 >> MM3 > MM1 > MM5

Not too far off. I think I would rank MM3 about MM5 on the gameplay list, and swap MM4 for MM2 and MM6 for MM3 on the music list.

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Re: The Mega Man Mega Thread: Type, for everlasting debate!

Angela wrote:

Gamewise:
MM4 >> MM2 >>> MM6 > MM5 = MM3 >> MM1

Musically:
MM4 >>> MM2 = MM6 >> MM3 > MM1 > MM5

My brain is still having trouble dealing with the fact that anyone, ANYONE, could rank MM3 so low in both categories. Are you INSANE, woman!?

I guess I might as well get it over with:

Gamewise
MM4 > MM3 > MM2 >>> MM6 >>> MM5 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> MM1

Music-wise
MM3 > MM4 > MM2 >>> MM6 >> MM5 >>>>>>> MM1

So, yeah, not actually all that much difference between gameplay and music in these games for me.

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Re: The Mega Man Mega Thread: Type, for everlasting debate!

Angela wrote:

First things first.  I need to know if anyone can substantiate my claim that the controls in this one are slightly..... borked.  Now, this is just me stepping off of the five games before it, so I've almost certainly become hyper-sensitive to even the most minute changes from title to title.  A few jumps and shots just didn't seem to be registering 100%, and the slide is no longer the pull-off-in-a-pinch maneuver that it used to be.  I need some validation: is it just me?

I don't remember having an problems with the controls in part six, but it's been a while since I played it.

Angela wrote:

There's a special place in hell reserved for the developer responsible for the coil spring section in Plant Man's stage.  A part so seemingly simple made excruciatingly difficult because it was impossible to gauge the timing of the spring's depression to gain the needed extra boost.  I can't believe how many lives I've had to waste here; after my sixth botched bounce, I finally said screw it.  This was the one and only time throughout all six games where I resorted to using an instant save state.

I can see how this part can be annoying, but I don't find it any worse than the blocks in Heat Man's stage.

Angela wrote:
SonicPanda wrote:

[NOTE: Anything positive I have to say about MM6 will be almost exclusively related to its soundtrack.]

Reviewing what I'd just wrote above, I may be apt to agree.  Yuko Takehara's soundtrack?  In a word, TERRIFIC.

Plant Man for the win! Takehara's work on MM6 reminds me of her work on Breath of Fire II. BoFII has some problems but I think it's kind of underrated.

@ Amazingu: I would probably rate MM3 pretty low as well despite the amount of love it recieves from fans.

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Re: The Mega Man Mega Thread: Type, for everlasting debate!

For what it is worth, the only classic Megaman games I didn't like were 1 and 5 (I haven't even touched 10 yet).

1 is just an irritating game as far as I'm concerned. I hate the music, the slippery feel of the game, the robot masters and the Wily stages. The whole damn game is a goddamn chore.

I can't remember the specifics about 5, all I can remember is really disliking it compared to 4 or 6. Maybe it's the music? The robot masters? The stage design? I don't know. It's time to revisit this one.

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Re: The Mega Man Mega Thread: Type, for everlasting debate!

Smeg wrote:

For what it's worth, you can usually skip the animations if you keep jamming the start button. It doesn't seem to be completely consistent as to whether it acknowledges your attempts to skip or not.

Actually, I found that holding down the Start button works just as well, if not better.  Even so, 'twas a painful endeavor having to switch between them adapters so frequently.

Smeg wrote:
Angela wrote:

There's a special place in hell reserved for the developer responsible for the coil spring section in Plant Man's stage.

It may not have been intuitive, but if you simply hold the A button down while bouncing on the springs, you'll bounce to maximum height.

Well, color me stupefied.  That's what I get for being a lifelong subscriber to the Super Mario method of spring bouncing.  Fine, I rescind that reservation in Hell..... but I'm opening up a new one in Heck for such a blatant lack of intuitiveness.

Amazingu wrote:

My brain is still having trouble dealing with the fact that anyone, ANYONE, could rank MM3 so low in both categories. Are you INSANE, woman!?

All right, guy, tell you what I'll do.  In the face of popular opinion, I'm willing to give MM3 another shot -- we'll see if a second playthrough manages to sway my opinion any.

That'll have to wait a bit, though, as I want to give Mega Man 7 a whirl next.  MM8, too, if I can land a copy -- and then, inevitably, MM9 and MM10 yet again.

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Re: The Mega Man Mega Thread: Type, for everlasting debate!

Just moving some furniture, but wanted to say I'm glad we'll be heading into 7 next. It's another of my top three. Anyway...

8/8/10

Angela wrote:

This week was devoted to wiping the floor with Cossack's and Wily's asses.

There we go. MM4 isn't one of my top three or anything, but it's special to me for a few personal reasons.

- It was the first game I'd put money I'd earned myself toward. Not much, mind you, but it (and that special $5 coupon Nintendo sent everyone as ordered by the Justice Department) was enough to make me feel like I'd had a hand in buying it.
- It was essentially where I honed my MM skills proper. MM3 was the first MM game I beat, but that was due in part to how I'd learned to exploit the password screen for E-Tanks. MM4 was the first to put a stop to such shenanigans, as E-Tank amounts were no longer included in the passwords. The game wound up taking me two weeks to put down, but I emerged a man, and was finally able to put MM2 to bed on a rental shortly thereafter.
- The day I beat it was basically the only time I ever finished an MM to a crowd.We'd only had one TV at the time, and the twin-castle gauntlet (as well as the time spent farming Skullman's stage for E-Tanks - three trips for nine if you keep rejecting Eddie until he delivers) meant that the playtime that had begun a little after 7 was getting dangerously close to bedtime. But my family was actually pretty engaged - my mom was the one to think of how to beat the last boss. After that we got a smaller TV for the family room and I've played most MMs pretty much on my own since then. Alas.

Angela wrote:

I love the addition of the new Mega Buster, irritating sound effect and all, and the slide move feels more naturally integrated into the level design.

As long as you pick up the Pharaoh Shot before going to Skullman's stage, it's entirely possible to finish the whole game without charging the Buster once (which I do now, because I hate that sound). I do miss it, though. I wish Inti would drop Protoman and give MM back his charge shot and his knees for their Classic installments. The bilious codgers who say these things detracted from the series usually have nothing good to say about any entry past 3, so who cares what they think, anyway?

Angela wrote:

Capcom also had the good sense to take out the obnoxious 'selection' sound effect when sifting through the menu itself, opting instead for a silent select.  Their decision to put the sound back into subsequent games always left me baffled.

That would be more of that misplaced nostalgia that lately weighs the franchise down like an anchor. Why yes, this is something I've had on my mind for the last two years.

Angela wrote:

And then there's the music.  Considering how let down I was with Bunbun's work in MM3, it's surprising how on top of his game he is here.  Either that, or Fujii's really picked up the slack, because I'm enamored with the entire soundtrack.  (I'd always wanted to hear another full-fledged Mega Man soundtrack from Ojalin; her Desert Commando was my favorite from MM10.)

I kind of wonder why she was the only guest artist in 10 that didn't have a had in arranging her contribution on the Image album.

Angela wrote:

Cossack Stage 2, Skull Man, Pharaoh Man, and Dive Man take top musical honors.

You've highlighted all my favorite RM themes from this one, so good on you. All the castle themes are outstanding, though. On the other hand, the music that drives me up the wall the most? The boss theme. I hate it so much. Final battle theme is cool, though.

Angela wrote:

It seemed I'd gotten an absurd amount of E-Tanks from Eddie.  I didn't keep track of the exact amount, but it had to have been at least four from the single playthrough.  Was I just that lucky?

It happens. Of course, if you don't like what Ed's throwing you, you can leave it there, backtrack and re-enter the screen to try and force something else. Kind of a pain to do on Diveman's stage, though.

Angela wrote:

On Cossack Stage 2, I made the fatal mistake of forgetting that you can't freely control Rush Jet like in MM3.

Rush is a giant turd for the rest of the NES games. I know how important he is in 6, but...well, I'll save this rant for the proper time.

Angela wrote:

What's it say when I want to put off playing the next two games, and just want to tear through Mega Man 4 again?  So good.

5 is my favorite in the Classic series after 2, but rock(man) on as you will. Do you know about some of MM4's deliciously weird, wonderful glitches? (Apologies for the cheesy intro on that second one)

P.S. I'm kind of a closet fan of playthrough videos on youtube and the like, especially when the player isn't a pro at what he's playing. If you've an hour's time, there's an amusing five-part disaster reel of an MM4 attempt posted by a British LPer (he calls his sets How to Successfully Fail) which should give a perverse pleasure to any longtime MM fan who knows all the pitfalls he's charging into well in advance. It IS very profane, especially as it goes on, so be warned, but I pull it up every now and again and have myself a cruel chuckle. (And despite how this set ends, he shortly thereafter decided to give in and use savestates, and saw it through to the end, enjoying most except the Wily Machine, which is admittedly kind of ridiculous until you learn the Drill Bomb trick)

P.P.S. I have never in my life gotten the power-up at the end of Cossack 3. Does anybody know how?

8/16/10

Angela wrote:

Just put the lid on Mega Man 5 -- and while it wasn't exactly a chore to play through, it didn't instill me with the same sense of enjoyment that MM2 and MM4 did either.  The series is clearly going through the motions at this point.

As I said before, MM5 is my favorite in the series after 2, so I can't say as I agree. The game has its faults, as does every entry in the series to be honest, but the things that clicked for me feel so very right that it's top-3 caliber in my eyes.

Angela wrote:

Outside of the reversed polarity bit in Gravity Man's level, there really wasn't anything noteworthy to speak of about MM5's stage designs or boss battles.

The boss battles themselves admittedly aren't much - there wouldn't be bosses with interesting attack patterns again until MM7 - but the designs are glorious. I must've drawn Napalmman and Gyroman in the margins of my middle-school notebook a hundred times at least. Best designs of the 8-bit bots, no question (OK, Chargeman's pretty dumb-looking), and that's counting the MM9 and 10 lot.

Hang on, what was that other bit?

Angela wrote:

really wasn't anything noteworthy...about MM5's stage designs

Objection! Even putting aside Gravityman's stage, MM5's stages are remarkably vivid. Waveman's stage is notable because it's essentially abandoned until you hit the jetski, and bits like the bubble hop are unique in the series (at least until Splashwoman stole the idea wholesale). The rumbling parallax of Chargeman's train, Gyroman's elevators, Starman's meteor storm, the SMW-style snake platform (it blew my 12-year-old mind that the NES could pull off such a thing) and collapsing tower of Protoman's castle, all of it so idiosyncratic that I don't understand what people don't see in it. Really, MM9's barebones presentation only served to highlight how much more lush these entries were. MM10 was better, but we're still not where we were with the later NES games.

Angela wrote:

I love the edgy new look of the Mega Buster shot, but the changed color scheme for when Mega Man flashes when charging irks me with distraction.

I like the recolor myself - never did care much for MM4's 'fuzzy' effect, but the real neat thing about the new Buster is the ability to interrupt the sound and silence it. Awesome.

Angela wrote:

The music is the weakest in the series so far.  I didn't quite take to Mari Yamaguchi's Cybersheep Dream in MM10, so I'd say she's par for the course as my least favorite Mega Man composer.  Save for the new Dr. Wily stage theme (which admittedly is very good), I can't even claim to be indifferent to the rest of the soundtrack.  I outright HATE Star Man, for instance.

Now see, I don't mind Starman's theme, and I actually regard MM5's music on the whole as a step up from MM4's (which has a few themes that drive me up the wall), if not as good as MM6's [NOTE: Anything positive I have to say about MM6 will be almost exclusively related to its soundtrack.] There are some turds (Stoneman, Crystalman, and that goofy-ass boss theme), but they are far outnumbered by the pieces I love. My top 10, to wit:
Title Theme
Stage Select
Password
Gravityman
Chargeman
Napalmman
Waveman
*Darkman/Protoman
*Final Battle
Staff Roll

*These in particular are among my very favorite, if not outright favorite, castle and battle themes in the whole series.

...so yeah, this is one of those agree-to-disagree situations. (It's also worth noting that Ashley recently cited MM5's Wily theme as his least favorite in a different thread altogether, so it looks like one of those scores in the series to be forever debated instead of embraced.)

Angela wrote:

Where MM4 was plentiful with the E-Tanks, MM5 seemed to be rife with extra lives.  Besides the numerous placements of lives in the stages themselves, enemies were dropping them left and right.

Absolutely true. No idea what that's about.

Angela wrote:

Not that I had any use for him, but I was two letters away from getting the Beat Adapter.

And good on you, for not being one of those that abuses the little runt in the last battle and then rants about it being too easy. A pet peeve of mine, that is. I've a lot of pet peeves with MM5 criticism, as you might've guessed.

Angela wrote:

My initial interpretation of Mizzile lead me to believe that it's one of the most aesthetically STRANGEST enemies I've seen in the series.  In sprite form and onscreen, I honestly thought the top two dots and lines were its eyes and mouth -- and its ACTUAL eyes either a bra, or a tuxedo vest/bowtie ensemble!

All hail Brabot!

My own errata:
-I have to have crabbed about this before, but bear with me. It still stings that Nintendo Power essentially rigged the '93 Nesters to give this game the shaft. They made a point of bragging about Link's Awakening sweeping every GB category that year, and MM5 would've done the same in the NES category had it won the Best Overall. That instead went to R.C Pro-Am II (HUH?), which was developed by Rare with NP's in-house artist contributing designs. A few months later they unveil Donkey Kong Country and their partnership with Rare. Yeah. Sticks in my craw after all these years.
-Water Wave and Power Stone suck terribly, but Gravity Hold, Gyro Attack, Napalm Bomb and Super Arrow are all great in my book. To outer space with you, annoying splitting Mets!
-Have you seen the batshit nuttiest MM5 hack ever? Starman music, sorry.
-MM5's robots are some of the most televised, not only for their appearances in the American cartoon, but also for the pretty-terrible Rockman OAV Capcom produced in Japan, wherein Rockman and company fall out of the TV screen and learn about modern-day Japanese customs. No, really. There's even a Magmaman, but not the same one, obviously.

I don't mean to oversell it. MM5 is not a candidate for The MM Game That Will Change The World. But I do think it's every bit as good as its older siblings, in some ways better, and it's likely the most underrated in the series. I've found more positive things said about MM6 than MM5, and that's just plain wrong. Anyone who thinks I'm gushing about MM5 because I'm some kind of Megaman sycophant should stick around to see me go at MM6 with a bat.

P.S. I'll discuss X8 a bit later. Monday's my TV night.

There we go. Now where's my bat, it's time to go at MM6.

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Re: The Mega Man Mega Thread: Type, for everlasting debate!

8/9/2010

SonicPanda wrote:

P.S. I'm kind of a closet fan of playthrough videos on youtube and the like, especially when the player isn't a pro at what he's playing. If you've an hour's time, there's an amusing five-part disaster reel of an MM4 attempt posted by a British LPer (he calls his sets How to Successfully Fail) which should give a perverse pleasure to any longtime MM fan who knows all the pitfalls he's charging into well in advance.

That was the most hilarious thing I'd watched in a good while; even more entertaining than playing through the game again myself. smile  You can just FEEL the poor guy's mounting frustration, by the way he starts recklessly running through the levels after the second or third failed attempt -- only to fail even harder.

To his credit, you can see that he does has a good video gamer's head on his shoulders.  He's always got the Mega Buster charged and at the ready, and he's more than competent at letting off streams of steady, coordinated shots.  He eliminated the Jumbigs with ease, as well as that second Kabatoncue.  The Mono Roaders and Taketentos really did a serious number on him, though.  And the Battans..... Suicide Grasshoppers, indeed.

My top five, best LOL moments.  Most of them hail from Drill Man's stage:

5) "I don't like the look of that life...."

4) The fight against Drill Man himself.  Slide, slide, slide -- and WHAM!  Sled right into his underground ascension attack.  In truth, I too thought he would've been able to afford getting hit just one more time before having to use the E-Tank.

3) The half-circular red and green platforms in Bright Man's stage.  "How do you get back?!", he fruitlessly exclaims after heading down to the level's lower area and grabbing the E-Tank and extra life.  And then that last set toward the end of the level, the one where you have to make that jump on the red platform just so -- that one really is tricky, since if you're too much on the left side, the force of physics simply won't allow you to correct your position once you're already in motion.

2) Back in Drill Man's stage, with just a sliver of life left, he ran right into that first falling boulder.  What made it so much sweeter was his remark just before he got hit: "Give me a check point."  Balderdash, indeed.  Or did he actually mean, "boulderdashed"?  I couldn't stop laughing for five whole minutes. 

1) But the number one blooper comes when he discovers the respawning enemy tactic in order to refill health.  An entire minute spent fighting the Taketentos over and over bears little fruit, inevitably resulting in the irksome backfiring of LOSING more health than earning it.  And when the big health pellet does finally appear, it gets stuck in the wall JUST as the enemy snuffs out his life.  I swear, this couldn't have been more hilarious if it were scripted.

Here, I've caught the golden moment as a still for posterity:

http://i407.photobucket.com/albums/pp15 … 4-dead.png

-- "I feel sorry for Mega Man.  He lives in a world of complete bastardization."

Last edited by Angela (Aug 21, 2010)

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Re: The Mega Man Mega Thread: Type, for everlasting debate!

8/18/2010

SonicPanda wrote:

Objection! Even putting aside Gravityman's stage, MM5's stages are remarkably vivid. Waveman's stage is notable because it's essentially abandoned until you hit the jetski, and bits like the bubble hop are unique in the series (at least until Splashwoman stole the idea wholesale). The rumbling parallax of Chargeman's train, Gyroman's elevators, Starman's meteor storm, the SMW-style snake platform (it blew my 12-year-old mind that the NES could pull off such a thing) and collapsing tower of Protoman's castle, all of it so idiosyncratic that I don't understand what people don't see in it.

Okay, I'll give you the snake platform and collapsing tower bits were pretty cool.  But I dunno..... the rest didn't give me the same sense of thrills like, say, Guts Man's gap-dropping platforms, Quick Man's quick beams, or Bright Man's light on/light off half-circular platform section did.  But speaking of quick beams.....

-Have you seen the batshit nuttiest MM5 hack ever?

Now THAT was some crazy awesome design.  I would even endure Star Man's evil theme to have a few cracks at mastering that. big_smile

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Re: The Mega Man Mega Thread: Type, for everlasting debate!

Megaman 6: The Short Review
Take every disparaging and unflattering thing ever written about MM5 in the history of the world (save music-related gripes), and apply it to MM6 twice over instead.

The Slightly Longer Review
Ugh, this story. Wily looks more like he's trying to duck paparazzi than fool anyone (the part when MM jumps back in horror after he takes off his 'disguise' is one of the more embarassing points of the series), and two seperate castles is just stupid when they're both his. Somebody faild, alright.

Ugh, these bosses. One for each element, and four boilerplate 'warrior' types. And if you start at the top left and go right in straight lines until you reach the lower right? Congratulations, you've very nearly solved the weakness chain on your first try.

Ugh, these boss fights.
"Flameman? Let's have him jump and then make a little fire, jump, make a little fire."
"Knightman? Let's have him jump, then toss a short-range mace, jump, a little mace."
"Plantman? Let's have him jump, then throw his shield, jump..."
"Hey, aren't we getting in a rut?"
"OK, then. Let's have Blizzardman roll, then make a little snow, roll..."

Ugh, these weapons. Wind Storm's ability to carry off smaller enemies is amusing, and Centaur Flash is pretty powerful on the little guys, but the rest were made to be ignored. Especially since many boss' 'weaknesses' are designed to drain a full weapon meter, and with no W Tanks, experimentation is discouraged. No, what they really wanted you to do was use the Rush Adaptors.

UGH, THESE FRIGGIN' ADAPTORS.

Angela wrote:

I hated, HATED playing menu roulette with the Rush JET and POW adapters.  They're novel concepts that are actually pretty fun to use, even if the former does feel like it breaks the game some -- but they really needed to find a way to streamline the switching between them.  (Maybe, I dunno, assign it to the Select button?)  *SO* many freaken instances where you needed to swap them in and out.  Drove me nuts.

YES. This is why the only way I'll even consider playing MM6 now is on the Anniversary Collection* - they added shoulder-button shortcuts for the Adaptors. Even then it's pretty stupid to keep the abilities seperate - MM7 fixes this, thankfully.
But some of those castle stages are hell on earth because of how you're supposed to move through them. Huge gaps? Jet. Plugging an enemy pit? Power. Back to Jet. Jet. Back to Power. Need to slide? Normal. Back to Jet.
Who thought this was a good idea? Also, the fake boss gimmick, and the need to exploit the adaptors to get the 'real' bosses, further tries to compel you down the prescribed boss order (then again, Beat is completely useless in 6, so you may as well skip him).

*Unfortunately, they also did MM6 a disservice. Rockman 6 Complete Works' soundtrack played softer than 4's or 5's, and when they put them all together on a single-disk collection (forced mono, by the way), rather than normalize the volume on all of them, they cranked up the pre-amp on 6's, so if you play on Navi Mode, it sounds like your speakers have blown. Egad, Brain, brilliant! Oh wait, no...
Too bad, too. Since RM6CW had the best remixes overall.

UGH, THIS FRIGGIN' GAME.

It's worth mentioning in full disclosure that I got to play MM7 before MM6; I wasn't able to find 6 until I found a Kay*Bee store liquidating its NES stock in '96. Nearly every half-baked idea in MM6 can be found improved upon in MM7, but I'm pretty sure I would've hated MM6 even without the handicap.

That all said...the music is glorious. Among the RM's only Centaurman's theme is a dud (Windman, Knightman and Flameman being my favorites), and the other themes are wonderful, too (with one glaring exception - I despise the theme for the Mr. X castle stages). According to Chiptuned Rockman's credits, she's also responsible for Slashman's theme in MM7, another favorite. So I'm kind of bewildered as to why Pumpman's tune fell so flat; as I said before, I'd have bet money going in that Commandoman's theme was her handiwork.

Angela wrote:

Second, what have they done to the Mega Buster's charge shot sound effect?  I'll tell you what they've done: they totally PUSSIFED it.

Honestly, it was the last thing to go. The real sound-effect pussification (is that a word?) came when they changed the death noise from MM3 onward.

Etc:
- Windman and Knightman remain the only bosses in the series designed by North Americans, Michael Leader of the US and Daniel Vallie of Canada respectively. As lame bosses as they are in practice, I have to admit Knightman's design is great. Plantman, on the other hand...
- Speaking of which, that's not evil Plantman stage design. THIS is evil Plantman stage design.
- I do think the bouncing cannons are pretty funny though.
- Nintendo Power once said that Capcom was going to skip bringing MM7 over but were convinced otherwise. Considering MM6 was actually published by Nintendo in the West originally, I think that's actually truer of 6.

Controversy, you say:

Gamewise:
MM2 > MM5 > MM7 > MM9 > MM8 > MM4 = MM3 > MM10 > MM6 > MM1 > Bass (I will freely play anything higher than these bottom 3 often, though)

Musicwise:
MM2 > MM3 = MM7 > MM6 = MM9 > MM5 > MM4 > MM10 > MM8 > MM1 > Bass

Onward to 7! (I like it a lot.)

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Re: The Mega Man Mega Thread: Type, for everlasting debate!

SonicPanda wrote:

P.P.S. I have never in my life gotten the power-up at the end of Cossack 3. Does anybody know how?

I dunno if you caught my response in the other thread, but since you're reposting, so will I:

step 1: balloon
step 2: slide

fin.

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Re: The Mega Man Mega Thread: Type, for everlasting debate!

Smeg wrote:
SonicPanda wrote:

P.P.S. I have never in my life gotten the power-up at the end of Cossack 3. Does anybody know how?

I dunno if you caught my response in the other thread, but since you're reposting, so will I:

step 1: balloon
step 2: slide

fin.

Thanks. That's been bugging me for about 18 years now.

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Re: The Mega Man Mega Thread: Type, for everlasting debate!

Jump, jump, jump. Slide, slide, slide. Jump, jump, jump. Slide, slide, slide.

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Re: The Mega Man Mega Thread: Type, for everlasting debate!

Okay, Mega Man 7.  I want to say I liked the game overall, but there's a number of grievously aggravating flaws that managed to knock the score down quite a bit.  I'm talking straight up PISSING ME OFF MY ROCKER aggravating.

But first, the good.  The game looks amazing.  Spoken as someone who had just come off of the first six games, now fully vested in the belief that the de facto look of Mega Man can never again go beyond 8-bit, re-seeing the graphical capabilities of the SNES is nothing short of astounding.  Enormous sprites (Sniper Joe, you're HUGE!), a vibrant color palette, and more animation than I could ever hope for -- whether it was the deliberate design choice, or if Capcom really did get so much better at working on the hardware between games, the look of MM7 is even more pleasing than the X titles.

I guess I really am the only one to have noticed the borked controls of MM6.  Luckily, everything feels right here.  Sliding, jumping, and Mega Buster shots all perform as expected.  (But I couldn't allow the upgraded graphics to lull me into thinking that there was a wall climb/slide a la the X/Zero series.)  The level designs - and yes, the boss battles - are a phenomenal leap forward from the last two games.  Shade Man's stage quickly became my fave; the whole Ghouls 'N Ghosts recreation is a brilliant touch, and I love how Shade Man's attack technique is even modeled after Firebrand's.  (Where have I heard there was an alternate way to play the original Ghosts' N Goblins theme during the stage?)  The rest of the robot masters are much improved in terms of their battle techniques, and most of the later boss fights are pretty awesome too.

Musically, MM7 ranks above fair.  It isn't quite as consistent as MM2, MM4, or MM6, but there are more excellent pieces than not.  Indeed, Yuko Takehara's Slash Man takes the top accolade, but Shade Man is a close second.  Spring Man and Cloud Man are cheery-personified and very likeable, the Robot Museum theme is a wistful blast of nostalgia, and the original Stage Start melody serving as the backbone of the Title theme gets a thumbs up from me.  The weakness of the Wily Stage 1 and 2 themes are offset by the far better Wily Stage 3 and 4.

At first, I was pleased that they added shoulder button swapping here, but you know what?  It's mostly useless, since they didn't even bother including the weapon's icon under the weapon meter.  I wasn't willing to memorize each of the eight specific weapons by color, so I still ended up using the Pause menu.

Naturally, the one gameplay element I truly despised in MM6 was made into an entire level with Spring Man's stage.  Granted, the spring bounces are much easier to pull off, since either holding down the jump button or pressing it at the right moment of the spring's depression works just dandy now.  I was able to get through Spring Man's stage well enough, but its use in Wily's fort was a structural nightmare.

Turbo Man's stage also drove me up the wall.  Between the fire thrusters, the Quick Man-like fire beams, and spending WAY too long trying to figure out how to take out the Sisi Truck boss, my patience quickly took a downward spiral.  This continued into the aforementioned spring-loaded Wily level, and then nearly hit its peak when I came up to the second encounter with Bass.  The guy really put me through the wringer; I hadn't obtained the Super Adapter for myself, so it took a good bit of trial and error to nail the pattern and rely on Thunder Bolt alone.

But it was the final battle with Wily that really ran me into the ground.  I know the Super Adapter would've been handy in some capacity, particularly when Wily takes to hovering to higher ground, but I somehow doubt it'd make for an effective evasive measure against his cheap-ass elemental spread attack.  It got to the point where I was AIMING to be hit with the electrical ball so as to be spared from the searing pain of the fireball.  Getting hit with ice wasn't much better since you're guaranteed to have the wind knocked out of you from his follow-up plasma ball attack.  I've felt frustration in Mega Man games before, but this fight borders on an entirely new level of maddening.

Other observations:

-This one has many more bits of narrative than what I'm used to.  Nothing along the lines of, say, the Zero titles, but certainly much more than the six games that preceded it.  Also, "Dr. Willy"?  Capcom, you've faild again.
-I think I get sadistic joy out of seeing Rush now getting hurt.  Should PETA be tearing down my door soon?  Maybe they've got an e-division that deals with the cruel treatment of robotic animals.
-The spiritual successor of Battan is here.  I don't feel quite as sympathetic for Technodon, since they're less cute and meaner looking.
-Do not antagonize the Derusu Bees.  Do not.
-Roach motel!  Ewww!!
-Did they really need to make the weapon tanks look so much like the energy ones now?  A needless confusion.
-The sound of Cloud Man's "thud" after taking a shot from the Danger Wrap is oddly titillating to the ears.
-Goodness, what a clustercuss of onscreen graphical mayhem when you're using the Junk Shield during the fight with Freeze Man.
-I stumbled far more against the battle with Mash than I care to admit.  It took me a while to grapple with the physics of dodging his preset bouncing pattern, and his toppled head that went just about everywhere.
-Holy Bloodlust, Mega Man!  Well, after that harrowing final battle, I wouldn't shed a single tear if he really did ice the f--ker. You cheap German bastard, you.

Last edited by Angela (Aug 27, 2010)

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Re: The Mega Man Mega Thread: Type, for everlasting debate!

I must confess...I love MM7, but I have never actually beaten it. Bass's second form (not to mention the lava pillars in the level! UGH!) and the final battle are a huge spike in difficulty from the rest of the game. Rush Searching is a guilty pleasure though...actually rewarding to find stuff (without the use of Gamefaqs and the like). I don't specifically remember why, but I remember Turboman's stage being a complete nightmare.

Personally, I think they needed more than one classic MM entry in beautiful 16-bit glory (although I was pleased with MM8 overall).

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Re: The Mega Man Mega Thread: Type, for everlasting debate!

Angela wrote:

The weakness of the Wily Stage 1 and 2 themes are offset by the far better Wily Stage 3 and 4.

Once again, you have things TOTALLY backwards, Angie.
*sigh*
When will you ever learn?

Wily Stage 1 and 2 are deliciously "dark" and offbeat, where 3 and 4 are kinda generic if you ask me.

But it was the final battle with Wily that really ran me into the ground

Well, you're right on that one at least.
7 has one of the hardest Wilies by far, and I tend to put down the controller at that point.
Bass is a son of bitch too.

Other observations:

- Did you notice that the music that plays during the first part of the opening "movie" (which shows Wily going behind bars) is a reference to the Credits theme from Mega Man 6?

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Re: The Mega Man Mega Thread: Type, for everlasting debate!

GoldfishX wrote:

Personally, I think they needed more than one classic MM entry in beautiful 16-bit glory

Like Rockman and Forte? And yes, Wily was a controller-smashingly frustrating bastard in MM7. Damn you guys for causing me to relive that memory.

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Re: The Mega Man Mega Thread: Type, for everlasting debate!

I forgot about Rockman and Forte because I ended up hating that game and everything about it....Once I finally got to play it. Even the music for that one was totally lackluster.

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Re: The Mega Man Mega Thread: Type, for everlasting debate!

GoldfishX wrote:

I forgot about Rockman and Forte because I ended up hating that game and everything about it....Once I finally got to play it. Even the music for that one was totally lackluster.

Yeah, I can completely argee on such an opinion on Rockman & Forte; for a game that was the "forbidden fruit" for so many years outside of the realm of emulation it's pretty forgetable.

Still, there are a few tracks that make me wish an official soundtrack existed: Cold Man Stage, Pirate Man Stage, Boss and King Castle Stage.

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Re: The Mega Man Mega Thread: Type, for everlasting debate!

Megaman & Bass was good, and the CD collection was an AWESOME feature. And I played the GBA version...

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#24 Bernhardt Aug 28, 2010

Re: The Mega Man Mega Thread: Type, for everlasting debate!

Angela wrote:

Quick Man's beams can go to hell, though.  Maybe I should've taken out Flash Man first.

I remember those beams in Quick Man's stage being the devil, as well, but on the playthrough I had a week or two ago, I got past those in one try...I couldn't believe it...

Angela wrote:

I'd completely forgotten about the "Doc Robot" bosses, and having to revisit those four stages again (two of which I despise: Shadow and Gemini), in addition to the Wily Castle stages tired me out quickly.

One or two of those Doc Robot stages, you're completely BONED if you don't have enough weapon energy left for the Rush Jet...there're those large chasms that you can't get across with it...I always thought that was unforgivable. In other words, get across in one try, or start over.

Angela wrote:

-My initial interpretation of Mizzile lead me to believe that it's one of the most aesthetically STRANGEST enemies I've seen in the series.  In sprite form and onscreen, I honestly thought the top two dots and lines were its eyes and mouth ...

You're not the only one! I saw it that way, too!

GoldfishX wrote:

I must confess...I love MM7, but I have never actually beaten it. Bass's second form (not to mention the lava pillars in the level! UGH!) and the final battle are a huge spike in difficulty from the rest of the game.

Neither have I. Back in the day, when I rented from Blockbuster, I rented it for a week, thinking I'd be able to finish it within then, but there was always one boss I couldn't get past; it was either Bass or Wily, but I don't remember anything past Bass's transformed state, after he takes his dog, and turns him into a pair of wings...

...

What Mega Man sequel was it, in which the Rush Coil is actually a platform you can stand on, that bounces into the air? That always threw me off, and I never thought it bounced all that high, either; I always thought that particular Rush Coil was buggered; why'd they even change it up, anyway? What was wrong with the original Rush Coil?!

Also, about Mega Man VI (6), they decreased the size of the Mega Buster shot from Mega Man V (5); guess they thought it was a game-killer in the previous installment?

...

Hey, what was that episode of Clarissa Explains It All (wow whee, the Spell Check on this site has Clarissa on it!) in which Ferguson brags about getting the highest score in Mega Man 10, thus causing his console to explode? And what does it say, when Capcom actually continues a series to the extent that people thought it would never reach?

Last edited by Bernhardt (Aug 28, 2010)

Re: The Mega Man Mega Thread: Type, for everlasting debate!

A discussion of one of my favorite entries waiting for me as I come back from vacation? You guys are the best.

Angela wrote:

Okay, Mega Man 7. The game looks amazing.  Spoken as someone who had just come off of the first six games, now fully vested in the belief that the de facto look of Mega Man can never again go beyond 8-bit, re-seeing the graphical capabilities of the SNES is nothing short of astounding.  Enormous sprites (Sniper Joe, you're HUGE!), a vibrant color palette, and more animation than I could ever hope for -- whether it was the deliberate design choice, or if Capcom really did get so much better at working on the hardware between games, the look of MM7 is even more pleasing than the X titles.

It does my heart good to hear someone speak so fondly of this game's look, after hearing so many people just whine about how 'the sprites are too big' and 'the controls feel different', wah wah wahh. I feel MM7 and MM8 did more to enhance the Classic series' personality than any game before them and they represent the sort of MM Classic atmosphere I enjoy most. Sadly, outside of the oasis that is Powered Up, we seem to be deadlocked in 8-bit stasis for the forseeable future, as Inafune recently said MM Universe will also be retro-styled and Rockman Online, with its pretty awesome-looking trailer, isn't coming out West at all (don't even bring up that stupid retro fanmake).

Angela wrote:

The level designs - and yes, the boss battles - are a phenomenal leap forward from the last two games.  Shade Man's stage quickly became my fave; the whole Ghouls 'N Ghosts recreation is a brilliant touch, and I love how Shade Man's attack technique is even modeled after Firebrand's.  (Where have I heard there was an alternate way to play the original Ghosts' N Goblins theme during the stage?)  The rest of the robot masters are much improved in terms of their battle techniques, and most of the later boss fights are pretty awesome too.

Shademan's is the best stage in the entire series, and anyone who says otherwise is not to be trusted. The branching paths, the enemies (the transforming werebot is incredible), the hidden Protoman fight (WOO!), the GnG easter egg, the Count Wily portrait, and [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSxzq6FWG-Y]my favorite theme in the whole series after Airman's[/url], utterly and completely FANTASTIC.

Angela wrote:

The weakness of the Wily Stage 1 and 2 themes are offset by the far better Wily Stage 3 and 4.

Got to agree with Amazingu here - this is straight-up bass-ackwards. The only duds in MM7's lineup are Turboman and Burstman, but I'm not too fond of that last Wily stage either. Also, those boss explosions on the Wily stages kick ass.

Angela wrote:

Naturally, the one gameplay element I truly despised in MM6 was made into an entire level with Spring Man's stage.

Like I said before, I find that everything MM6 did half-assed, MM7 improved on exponentially. Springman's stage is a lot of fun.

Angela wrote:

I came up to the second encounter with Bass.  The guy really put me through the wringer; I hadn't obtained the Super Adapter for myself, so it took a good bit of trial and error to nail the pattern and rely on Thunder Bolt alone.

Good grief. Actually, I kind of want to try that now. Needless to say, that fight becomes a hell of a lot easier if you get collect the Adapter parts (actually useful this time around, because they didn't force usefulness through the level design!) and dig up the Arm Extender hiding in Turbo's stage. (It's worth mentioning as an aside that every single item in the game that aside from the Protoshield - which you can get from that awesome aforementioned fight - without having to buy from Auto, ever. It's one of those rare cases in the franchise where knowing just how much there is to the game makes all the difference.)

Angela wrote:

But it was the final battle with Wily that really ran me into the ground.  I know the Super Adapter would've been handy in some capacity, particularly when Wily takes to hovering to higher ground, but I somehow doubt it'd make for an effective evasive measure against his cheap-ass elemental spread attack.  It got to the point where I was AIMING to be hit with the electrical ball so as to be spared from the searing pain of the fireball.  Getting hit with ice wasn't much better since you're guaranteed to have the wind knocked out of you from his follow-up plasma ball attack.  I've felt frustration in Mega Man games before, but this fight borders on an entirely new level of maddening.

Using an armor you can't slide in to do that fight? Are you nuts? Anyway, that fight's totally doable without using an Energy Tank. I've done it, and there's even people on YT who've done it without getting hit. It's a tough pattern, make no mistake, but I can think of at least two boss fights in MM&B that piss me off more. Also, that fight intro with his glinting chrome dome? Love it.

[Also, straight from this wiki:

"Wily Capsule is weak to a charged Wild Coil, which can be used to bound up and hit him if aimed with precision. The Freeze Cracker is another option if Wild Coil is not as despite the fact Freeze Cracker only deals one damage, it can change direction to make shooting him from higher up easier. If you want to prevent him to shoot 4 laser balls [sic] use the Thunder Bolt to hit him so that he can only release laser balls on the floor and repeat the process."

So there you go.]

Angela wrote:

-This one has many more bits of narrative than what I'm used to.  Nothing along the lines of, say, the Zero titles, but certainly much more than the six games that preceded it.

There's more variation to it in the Japanese version. In the English version he just has perfunctory conversations with Light about weapon uses, but in the original, you had Roll and Auto randomly appear for less serious banter, something I wish they'd kept.

Angela wrote:

-Holy Bloodlust, Mega Man!  Well, after that harrowing final battle, I wouldn't shed a single tear if he really did ice the f--ker. You cheap German bastard, you.

The intent to kill him gets short-circuited in the original; the 'more than a robot' part was an invention on the translators' part.

Etc:
- The product code listed on the final screen of the ending is actually a password. Under normal circumstances, it'll bring you to the last Wily stage loaded with EVERYTHING. But if you hold the shoulder buttons as you confirm you get a Bass vs MM 1-on-1 fighting minigame. The only other game I know with something similar is Working Designs' version of Silhouette Mirage.
- Another code, 1755-8187-6486-2322, works around the games greatest flaw by giving you all 8 RM stages at once. BUT...you don't get the introductory or Robot Museum stages, and it doesn't fly on the Anniversary Collection.
- If you fudge the password, Reggae laughs at your misfortune.

In closing, man, I love MM7.
If you're having trouble finding MM8, I can share a ripped version I have that'll play on a custom-firmware PSP. Be aware it doesn't have the animated cutscenes though, in case that happens to be a deawbweakew.[/Fudd Light]

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