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Amazingu Jun 23, 2016

GoldfishX wrote:

You said it was easier to focus on story and characters...We do agree on that. What I am saying is that is a BAD thing and those are the type of people I don't want judging videogames. These are also the same people that might, say, nitpick a game for not having a minority as a lead character.

I never said it was a good thing.

I do agree with Razakin, in that people play video games for different reasons and none of them are wrong.
Not everyone plays games for the challenge, not everyone plays them for the story. In many cases it depends on the genre of the game.

That said, I still think that a professional reviewer should mention mechanics.
I mean, yes, if you're going to play Life is Strange, you're going to do so for the story, but I think the review would not be complete without mentioning the mechanics: i.e. how the game handles player choice, etc.

avatar! Jun 23, 2016

Razakin wrote:
GoldfishX wrote:

Nowadays, I can see something like this: "While Contra is a moderately fun game where you run and shoot all kinds of stuff, I was triggered by the extreme macho-ness of two white guys running shirtless through the jungle carrying large guns and it ruined what little there is to this game."
...

Except stuff like that wouldn't happen, as good reviewers do know what genre a game is and what that genre requires from the game.
...

So actually, Contra wasn't "two white guys". Take a look at the cover art
http://www.mobygames.com/game/nes/contr … rId,32879/
You have Rambo along with a Latino version of Rambo. Point is, even back then demographics did matter. Another example, Streets of Rage, you could play as a female, black character, or white character and I don't remember anyone ever complaining about that. So it's not like games have all of a sudden done a 180 or anything like that.

That said, I do agree that today some reviewers can be "too touchy" and miss the point. Dragon's Crown was a love letter to old hack-and-slash games as well as Conan-like sword and sorcery. Overall it received superb reviews, but now and then you got reviews by such people as Danielle Riendeau
http://www.polygon.com/2013/7/31/455395 … eavy-metal
"Dragon's Crown is a fantasy-obsessed teenaged boy's dream: crazy, violent and full of impossibly large breasts."
So starts the rather poor review, which ends with a nonsensical:
"Dragon's Crown is a wild place to visit, but it doesn't quite hold up in the light of day."
Anyone know what "doesn't quite hold up in the light of day" is supposed to mean? Anyway, point is I agree that sometimes reviewers miss the mark, but as Razakin pointed out a "good" reviewer will understand where the source material is coming from, and along those lines, Danielle Riendeau completely ignored the fact that male characters were also very sexualized/fantasized with ridiculously huge muscles, but again, that wasn't the point.

Razakin Jun 23, 2016

avatar! wrote:

So actually, Contra wasn't "two white guys". Take a look at the cover art
http://www.mobygames.com/game/nes/contr … rId,32879/
You have Rambo along with a Latino version of Rambo.

Actually, that's Rambo and John Matrix from Commando (Arnold Schwarzenegger), and then the Alien from Alien. But then, japanese devs loved to do stuff like that ages past, like Metal Gear 2 having few portraits of Hollywood actors, like Big Boss being Sean Connery. tongue

avatar! wrote:

That said, I do agree that today some reviewers can be "too touchy" and miss the point. Dragon's Crown was a love letter to old hack-and-slash games as well as Conan-like sword and sorcery. Overall it received superb reviews, but now and then you got reviews by such people as Danielle Riendeau
http://www.polygon.com/2013/7/31/455395 … eavy-metal
"Dragon's Crown is a fantasy-obsessed teenaged boy's dream: crazy, violent and full of impossibly large breasts."
So starts the rather poor review, which ends with a nonsensical:
"Dragon's Crown is a wild place to visit, but it doesn't quite hold up in the light of day."
Anyone know what "doesn't quite hold up in the light of day" is supposed to mean? Anyway, point is I agree that sometimes reviewers miss the mark, but as Razakin pointed out a "good" reviewer will understand where the source material is coming from, and along those lines, Danielle Riendeau completely ignored the fact that male characters were also very sexualized/fantasized with ridiculously huge muscles, but again, that wasn't the point.

That's why honestly I don't read Polygon, other reasons being that Arthur Gies and Ben Kuchera are there, even if when two good reviewers/Journalists are now working on the site (Nick Robinson and Tara Long). Which sucks a lot.

But then, Riendeau probably didn't know all the sources/inspirations for Dragon's Crown art styles and so on, but then, neither did I before reading this. And honestly, I can understand why the art style (especially Sorceress), does bug people out. I mean, it does have male power fantasy but not so much of female ones, outside of that amazing amazon. But damn that poor sorcerer's back. big_smile

Dragonfish Dog Jun 24, 2016 (edited Jun 24, 2016)

My problems with socially progressive representation in popular media stems from the fact that I (and many other people) are BAITED into buying and playing these games, and hence being subjected to their PSAs, when that wasn't what we wanted or expected (Gone Home and Life Is Strange, for example).

Gone Home, I would've been pissed with if I hadn't YouTubed first, but playing it myself now, I enjoy it ironically, but not for the story it's trying to tell.

Those messages are being delivered to us COVERTLY under the guise of a supposed horror story or sci-fi story. They're secretly there to PREACH, NOT ENTERTAIN. Imagine if a game you were playing clandestinely, covertly snuck Christian messages into its story; NO ONE LIKES TO BE PREACHED DOWN TO.

Amazingu wrote:

Can you imagine how annoying it is for entire races and genders to be completely ignored by mainstream media? Not finding any kind of representation in their favorite pastimes, except maybe as laughing stocks?

Actually, I can, having been a scrawny ass white kid, back when I was in primary school, and being roughed up and flat-out assaulted by the jocks (or anyone bigger than me) day-in and day-out; yes, I do know what it feels like to be marginalized and treated with no respect. Too bad I don't have a lobby, or receive any affirmative action like SOME people do!

Problem is, seems to be ALL/MOST of the representation in popular media today, is women, and ethnic minorities and LGBT, while the straight, white man is depicted as either incompetent, or an asshole.

Of course, that's mostly true of American syndicated TV, which, you probably don't watch, because it's all CRAP anyway, and just because a cast of characters is diverse, doesn't mean the show (or game) is going to be good.

And, of course, there could be as many female, ethnic minority, and LGBT characters as you could possibly want, but it'll never be enough, especially if you're not willing/able to recognize they EXIST, Anita Sarkeesian!

Amazingu wrote:

What you are displaying here, mister Dragonfish Dog, is the very definition of straight white male privilege. You don't HAVE to care about these things, because they don't affect you in any way. In fact, you seem insulted by the mere idea of diversity. People like you are the problem.

Oh my f****** Lord, you ARE the stereotype of an SJW.

Want to preach to me about White Guilt, next?

The fact is, I am the one who feels EXCLUDED now, not that I was ever much included in the first place.

I mean, I didn't know I had such PRIVILEGE, being a scrawny ass white kid back in primary school, with all the jocks more or less flat-out physically ASSAULTING me day-in, day-out, and now I'm the bad guy just for being straight and white.

Where's the lobby or affirmative action for scrawny ass white primary school kids who get beat up, and who're neither female or LGBT?

Women, minorities, and LGBT aren't DISCRIMINATED against, they're the ones who receive SPECIAL TREATMENT under the guise of having been mistreated in the past!

The truth is, no matter who you are, by race, ethnicity, gender, sexual preference, etc., there's always going to be someone who wants to cast you to the wayside, and those people cast you to the wayside no matter what demographics you fall under; alleging discrimination on part of any demographic is simply trying to win special treatment.

Amazingu wrote:

apart from the fact that the art design is terrible.

At least we can agree on that; someone just doesn't know how to draw faces very well.

Amazingu wrote:

They (women) would if they wanted to. But nobody "flocks" to jobs like trash collection.

What kind of point IS that? My point is, women don't like doing dirty jobs, or physical hard labor, so it's kind of ridiculous to assert that women can COMPLETELY replace men.

Amazingu wrote:

Are you saying he (Jesus) was white? Wouldn't be so sure...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_ … e_of_Jesus

Honestly don't know if Hebrew is still considered Caucasian, but the odd thing is, Arabs/Palestinians/Middle Easterners, are in fact, still considered to be of the Caucasian race.

Amazingu wrote:

So, Amazingu, how's that slick gender studies degree treating you? Being employed one day a week at Local Coffee Shop, for about 4-6 hours per shift, must be treating you pretty well, huh?

I'm not going to dignify that with a serious response,

Actually, you kind of did, by calling any attention to it whatsoever.

Amazingu wrote:

People like you are the problem.

And enabling White Knight, SJW Bluepill Mangina Cucks like yourself are the reason that women get away with more than half of the abominable shit (like false rape accusations) that they do.

Amazingu wrote:

Have I ever made fun of you (or even made assumptions about you)

Yeah, you've accused me of racism, sexism, bigotry, misogyny, white privilege; you've left a pretty bad taste in my mouth, telling me I "am the problem."

Dragonfish Dog Jun 24, 2016 (edited Jun 24, 2016)

Just read the sex column of an issue of Men's Health magazine, not necessarily the latest one.

The people who write in, are of course, men with relationship troubles, and the columnist who responds is female.

Q&A's kind of go like this:

Q: "I have trouble getting it up, what should I do?"
A: "Have you ever considered that maybe you were just gay?"

Don't you love that? A guy comes in, asking for relationship advice, only for some woman to tell him he's basically just inadequate as a man?

I mean, as a Men's HEALTH magazine, why not recommend a health-oriented response; she could've suggested that he had erectile dysfunction, and then that'd be an excuse, at least, to push pills for ED, but NO, let's just flat-out insult some poor sod looking for help, why don't we?

How can there be any denial that women run the world (and they're not benevolent, either), if only because admitting that means women don't qualify for victim status anymore?

I'd scan this and show it, if only to prove there's at least one woman in the universe who acts like a TWAT, but I've already scrapped the issue. Good thing I get it for free hmm Rewards programs, and all that.

Razakin Jun 24, 2016

Oh joy, we got a white priviledged MRA muppet in here, who thinks that because he was bullied in schools, there's no need to talk about discrimination against women, minority or LGBT. Just go away.

I mean, let's talk about how police forces in US treat black people compared to white people? Guess which group gets treated fair and other not so fair (read this as: getting shot to pieces even when there's no reason to shoot people). Or how MRA muppets like you talk about women who *GASP* dare to say that games could have diversity. And gods forbid if they're transsexual and trying to go into a public bathroom. But still, white males are being discriminated so hard in their bloody ivory towers. Sheesh.

Dragonfish Dog Jun 24, 2016 (edited Jun 24, 2016)

Razakin wrote:

Oh joy, we got a white priviledged MRA muppet in here, who thinks that because he was bullied in schools, there's no need to talk about discrimination against women, minority or LGBT. Just go away.

I mean, let's talk about how police forces in US treat black people compared to white people? Guess which group gets treated fair and other not so fair (read this as: getting shot to pieces even when there's no reason to shoot people). Or how MRA muppets like you talk about women who *GASP* dare to say that games could have diversity. And gods forbid if they're transsexual and trying to go into a public bathroom. But still, white males are being discriminated so hard in their bloody ivory towers. Sheesh.

I don't live in any ivory tower, shithead, and I don't have any privilege. When I walk into a store or restaurant, I get treated (or disregarded) the same as any other common voting citizen.

News for you, EVERYBODY gets roughed up by the cops; it's a problem, and it needs to stop. I'll agree on that.

It's just that black people are more vocal about speaking out about it.

Wealthier black people certainly aren't getting roughed up by the cops, that's because they live in better neighborhoods.

Truth is, it's more of a problem about economic disparity: Cops mostly get away with roughing up poor people, because they can't afford lawyers to defend them.

You wanna talk about White Privilege?

A black man gets roughed up by a cop, the black man is assumed to innocent, and the cop is assumed to be racist. A white man gets roughed up by a cop, it's assumed that white man is just some stupid hick causing trouble, and the cop is assumed to be justified. WHITE PRIVILEGE MY ASS!

If anything, the cops are afraid to make arrests of ethnic minorities, for fear of being labeled racist and losing their jobs! So they just rough up the white people instead, in order to meet their arrest and conviction quotas!

And sometimes, it's not just poor people; wealthier people, too, if they're identified to not be in line with the dominant political party (in this case, the left wing).

I like how SJWs just assume that all their opponents are MRAs. :3

And, right, how dare I speak about how men in general, much less just white men, are treated in society? Us men are just SO privileged; we all should just logoff our computers right now, and beat our own heads in with a rock, as punishment for our privilege!

I also like how you don't even bother to address any of my arguments, and how you also cherry pick certain arguments in order to paint your opposition a certain way, while also disregarding your opponent's arguments that DISPROVE what you're trying to say about them!

How's that Feminist Frequency boxset? Ohh, that's right, it was never published; Anita just spent that excess money on Georg Roth Los Angeles women's tops.

vert1 Jun 24, 2016 (edited Jun 24, 2016)

Dragonfish Dog wrote:

Women, minorities, and LGBT aren't DISCRIMINATED against, they're the ones who receive SPECIAL TREATMENT under the guise of having been mistreated in the past!

Please read this: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=956524

And enabling White Knight, SJW Bluepill Mangina Cucks...

I don't live in any ivory tower, shithead...

Vert1 wrote:

This is a thread to discuss representation in media. The goal is to put arguments about roles here instead of having every thread on art become toxic by including them there. Please refrain from insults and other nastiness. The two main concerns are over inclusion and portrayal.

Dragonfish Dog Jun 24, 2016 (edited Jun 24, 2016)

vert1 wrote:
Dragonfish Dog wrote:

Women, minorities, and LGBT aren't DISCRIMINATED against, they're the ones who receive SPECIAL TREATMENT under the guise of having been mistreated in the past!

Please read this: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=956524

That's going to take me all afternoon to actually read at length, but just taking a glance over it, it more or less proves the point I'm trying to make: Blacks are poorer than the rest of the population, so they have more societal problems. Being poor sucks.

But black people will never have a reason to strive to work themselves out of their poverty, if they just attribute their problems to racism. Also, more government intervention isn't the answer; giving government more money isn't going to fix the problem. Nobody can give you anything that will make you less poor.

And, let's not forget, how people think President Obama is so great, but what has HE done for black people in America?

vert1 Jun 24, 2016 (edited Jun 24, 2016)

From the same page I linked you to:

● Blacks with a clean criminal background still have a massive handicap, even vs. White job seekers with a criminal background.

● Black folk who attended college about as likely to be hired as a White high school dropout.

These are just two examples that have nothing to do with poverty. There are plenty more examples.

But we're shifting away from discrimination in media to a straight up discrimination in everything thread. That's not the point of this thread and I'd advise everyone to keep it to tv, movies, and videogames.

Dragonfish Dog wrote:

Problem is, seems to be ALL/MOST of the representation in popular media today, is women, and ethnic minorities and LGBT, while the straight, white man is depicted as either incompetent, or an asshole.

I only watch tv at the gym but I think you are greatly exaggerating. Listing examples could help prove your claim.

Dragonfish Dog Jun 24, 2016 (edited Jun 24, 2016)

vert1 wrote:

From the same page I linked you to:

● Blacks with a clean criminal background still have a massive handicap, even vs. White job seekers with a criminal background.

● Black folk who attended college about as likely to be hired as a White high school dropout.

These are just two examples that have nothing to do with poverty. There are plenty more examples.

But we're shifting away from discrimination in media to a straight up discrimination in everything thread. That's not the point of this thread and I'd advise everyone to keep it to tv, movies, and videogames.

Yeah, I know, still need to read the whole thing, I was just stating what I saw at a cursory glance of it.

As for me, if you ask me, people treat me as if I was black.

So there. hmm

P.S. Don't live in The South, if they're so racist, I guess.

P.S.S. The 3 states bordering North Carolina have some of the densest Arabic populations in the country - figure that out; them, Texas, California, and Detroit, Michigan (Just random trivia I thought I'd mention).

P.S.S.S. And like I've said already, Obama has done NOTHING for blacks in this country, so don't heap all the blame at white people.

Dragonfish Dog Jun 24, 2016 (edited Jun 24, 2016)

At any rate, you're all probably right, and I need to think differently about how I go about things.

You have to wonder, though, when it comes to these games, in which they're just trying to shoehorn diversity into the game, how sincere they're being, as opposed to doing it just because it's now fashionable, and for the purpose of being popular and profitable. Just sayin'.

As for me, the whole identity crisis shtick has worn thin, and that's the point of I've been trying to make and has been so thoroughly distorted at this point.

That's what I'm trying to say when I say I'm over Evangelion.

I'm OVER Final Fantasy VII.

I'm OVER angsty heroes and protagonists.

I'm OVER pseudo-intellectual pretension.

You wanna discuss existentialism? READ A !@#$%^ BOOK.

I'm tired of being reminded of my own real-life crippling depression when I play a video game.

That's what it comes down to, when it comes to media representation; you're asking some to listen to YOUR problems and sympathize with YOU when you've already called them asshole.

That's what we want to spend our time and money on, is something that just makes us wallow in our self-pity, or for some, self-loathing?

You're basically paying money to BE UNHAPPY.

If you really want to address your own life problems, see a counselor, therapist, or life coach, as opposed to thinking that someone's poorly written book, movie, music, TV show, or video game will have the answer for you.

Video games are for jumping on people's heads.

They're not there to help you figure out what the nature of your existence is.

And that's my stance when it comes to stuff like this.

Have your character editors, I don't have a problem with that; have your diverse cast of characters in which the straight, white male is the villain, I don't care, but stop trying to josh me into buying your damn game, Life Is Strange!

Excuse me if I object to being called the villain, when I'm the one who's more or less been getting their fudge pushed back in most of their life!

And I think that's why most of the population resents the straight white dude: We have our !@#$ figured out, and that's because we didn't waste time mired in existential crises, trying to prove to the world how DEEP AND INTELLECTUAL we were!

Razakin Jun 24, 2016

You want to know why I don't even bother to addressing your honestly bullshit 'arguments' is because you keep talking about how a white male keeps getting discriminating and how everyone is shoehorning diversity into everything. Which is honestly bullshit.

Or you keep dropping names like Anita Sarkeesian and her box set box which I had to check what that was about on the KS page, and funnily enough. It's for the whole ok series of Tropes vs. Women, it does have some good points and some bad misses. And it has gotten better lately. Also, if you've not pledged on that, then you don't have pretty much anything to say how the money and time is used, especially when she is still producing videos, thus creating the content that people pledged for. (And before you froathe something, I didn't pledge that project at all.)

As it's not shoehorning if devs are actually thinking that: "hey, we actually should think more than one minute what gender/race our characters in games are".  I mean, you can't honestly be against diversity in video games, or against diversity at all? As it doesn't mean that white males are gonna be erased, instead you will have diverse cast of characters, alongside your whiteys. And honestly, that's for the better. That also means that even villains will be non-white too in the future.

And your ramble about games making you unhappy etc., you probably need to see counselor/therapist to try to fix your issues and the crippling depression (f--- depression really, f--- that shit), instead of blaming games.

Also, you're dead wrong in any kind media not helping people address their own problems, just dead wrong. Just because you feel discriminated/oppressed against, doesn't mean that white male priviledge exists. If it wouldn't, we wouldn't having this bloody discussion.

Dragonfish Dog Jun 24, 2016 (edited Jun 24, 2016)

Oh my f***in' crap, I can't even be angry anymore, this's just too funny.

Razakin wrote:

Or you keep dropping names like Anita Sarkeesian and her box set box which I had to check what that was about on the KS page, and funnily enough. It's for the whole ok series of Tropes vs. Women, it does have some good points and some bad misses.

Except for the fact that the Anita Sarkeesian Tropes Vs Woman DVD boxset was FUNDED BUT NEVER RELEASED. She ran away with people's money, under the guise of SJW causes, do you really not understand that? You got taken for fools!

Razakin wrote:

And it has gotten better lately.

Yes, that series got INEXORABLY better, because it was DISCONTINUED.

Razakin wrote:

And before you froathe something, I didn't pledge that project at all.)

At this point, I can't even tell if you're trolling me; since when was "Froathe" even a word?

Razakin wrote:

And your ramble about games making you unhappy etc., you probably need to see counselor/therapist to try to fix your issues and the crippling depression (f--- depression really, f--- that shit), instead of blaming games.

Way to take my own suggestion, and throw it in my face! :3

I only have crippling depression in the figurative sense. Still, though, some video games plots and their characters are just f***in' whiny these days!

Razakin wrote:

Also, you're dead wrong in any kind media not helping people address their own problems, just dead wrong. Just because you feel discriminated/oppressed against, doesn't mean that white male priviledge exists. If it wouldn't, we wouldn't having this bloody discussion.

Wait, wait, wait, take a look again at what you typed there.

"Just because you feel discriminated against, doesn't mean that white male privilege exists."
Uhh, you're trying to prove that white male privilege DOES exist, right?

'Cuz you worded it just the exact opposite.

Also, it's spelled "Privilege." There's this thing, in this day and age, called "Spellcheck." Try it out!

Man, if you're taking life lessons from your comic books, man...you should stop reading the PSA genre, I guess!

Maybe I'm just f***in' drunk right now, but your post was hilarious; I seriously mean that, it was the highlight of my day!

And here I was, just DREADING the kind of responses I'd be getting, to the last few messages I left.

GoldfishX Jun 25, 2016

If diversity happened naturally, I wouldn't have an issue with it. But I detect the same sentiments in this thread that I detect in any typical social justice argument that falls apart...That is, an underlying sentiment against white males. Razakin, really? "Whiteys"? Maybe it's a language thing with you that you're not quite getting, but you certainly wouldn't call black people "blackies"...You would get your face punched in. You pretty much discredited every single one of your arguments to me entirely by using that one word.

I think what people who preach concepts like "privilege" and "MRA" need to understand is the tone of these words are outright confrontational and end up hurting diversity overall, because they imply that "if we decrease our content geared towards white males and increase our content geared towards <insert minority group here> it will get better". Which IS shoehorning. And it does cause people who are not racist* to view this type of forced diversity in a negative light.

And just to be fair...SJW is also a confrontational term, but that was the very purpose of why it came to be. It was meant to mock from the very beginning.

Again, go back to Power Rangers...Diverse cast that never felt forced (to me...does it to anyone else?) and it's a fine show (mostly). But is it going to please everyone from a diversity perspective? No. At what point is there enough diversity? This is where the argument falls apart to me. You really can't please everyone.

*cue the tired "but everyone is racist to some degree" argument that needs to be put out to the pasture and shot dead.

Jay Jun 25, 2016 (edited Jun 25, 2016)

And this page is pretty much exactly why better media representation is a good thing. That someone could get seemingly this worked up over fictional gaming characters who aren't straight white men, where anything other than that default is a shifty agenda, and simply some of the comments here, both paranoid and showing a lack of understanding, all go into the column of, yep, let's push for it. Thing is, DD, I wouldn't even try to take you up on any of that because it just oozes anger (over fictional game characters!) and you sound well beyond reasoning with. But the next generation, if they grow up with better media representation, it might go some way towards making a difference. Won't achieve everything of course, not even close, but it can help.

I always think of better media representation as a good thing for people who are currently sidelined in the media, but it's pretty clear that it will be a good thing for the people who aren't too.

Razakin Jun 25, 2016 (edited Jun 25, 2016)

Dragonfish Dog wrote:

Except for the fact that the Anita Sarkeesian Tropes Vs Woman DVD boxset was FUNDED BUT NEVER RELEASED. She ran away with people's money, under the guise of SJW causes, do you really not understand that? You got taken for fools!

Yes, that series got INEXORABLY better, because it was DISCONTINUED.)

Discontinued? You do realize that there was an episode two weeks ago? Lingerie is not armor, so please show where you see it being discontinued? You could criticize that the videos come out really slowly, but I would assume that Anita and co. are doing other stuff than just videos in their lives. And perhaps with the amount of money she did get in the end, the videos could come faster, but as I'm not a pledger, can't much comment on that.

So, how did she again run away with other people's money again?

Dragonfish Dog wrote:

"Just because you feel discriminated against, doesn't mean that white male privilege exists."
Uhh, you're trying to prove that white male privilege DOES exist, right?

'Cuz you worded it just the exact opposite.

Also, it's spelled "Privilege." There's this thing, in this day and age, called "Spellcheck." Try it out!

Man, if you're taking life lessons from your comic books, man...you should stop reading the PSA genre, I guess!

And you should probably check the timestamps of that post, and know that not all of from US, and when I'm tired, I do make typos or miss words there and here, or mistype words because I've grown accustomed to type certain word in a way. So if ya want to laugh, then laugh, sockpuppet.

Also, where the bloody hell did I say about taking life lessons from comic books? I said that media can help people address their problems. Not solve, but help. And if you're still insisting being like a grade a idiot, I'm not implying that people shoudln't go and seek professional help also.

GoldfishX wrote:

If diversity happened naturally, I wouldn't have an issue with it. But I detect the same sentiments in this thread that I detect in any typical social justice argument that falls apart...That is, an underlying sentiment against white males. Razakin, really? "Whiteys"? Maybe it's a language thing with you that you're not quite getting, but you certainly wouldn't call black people "blackies"...You would get your face punched in. You pretty much discredited every single one of your arguments to me entirely by using that one word.

Guess which one of those two words do have a massive racist background? And then you might know why saying the non-racist one is ok. Of course, you can be racist against white people, but I'm now talking more of EU/US where that does happen really as much as being racist against people of colour. And I tend to sometimes use slangish words or dialects. So, no need to pull your tidy whiteys up your arse.

GoldfishX wrote:

I think what people who preach concepts like "privilege" and "MRA" need to understand is the tone of these words are outright confrontational and end up hurting diversity overall, because they imply that "if we decrease our content geared towards white males and increase our content geared towards <insert minority group here> it will get better". Which IS shoehorning. And it does cause people who are not racist* to view this type of forced diversity in a negative light.

All this talk about forced diversity and has anyone seen it lately? In for example in games or comics? I'd really would like to see some examples if there is.

And I don't preach those concepts, unless the being I'm replying to sounds like arse who takes his actions from MRA books or says how he as a white male has things so wrong. (Not directing to you, you just have oddball opinions alltogether, some funny and some bizarre tongue)

GoldfishX wrote:

And just to be fair...SJW is also a confrontational term, but that was the very purpose of why it came to be. It was meant to mock from the very beginning.

It's a stupid term, but I don't mind if someone calls me a SJW, just because I tend to like diversity and want something different from the usual. Their loss I'd say.

GoldfishX wrote:

Again, go back to Power Rangers...Diverse cast that never felt forced (to me...does it to anyone else?) and it's a fine show (mostly). But is it going to please everyone from a diversity perspective? No. At what point is there enough diversity? This is where the argument falls apart to me. You really can't please everyone.

You're talking about the original Power Rangers? That was for sure diverse cast I have to say. And I'd think everyone was pleased with it. So, if all shows were diverse like that in their own way, there wouldn't be discussions about it. Thankfully TV-series and movies are nowadays pretty diverse, and it has helped even some series to sell more tickets, like what happened with Fast & Furious 7.

GoldfishX wrote:

*cue the tired "but everyone is racist to some degree" argument that needs to be put out to the pasture and shot dead.

Yeah, that's a silly argument.

Dragonfish Dog Jun 25, 2016 (edited Jun 25, 2016)

Review Tech USA on the backlash regarding the latest X-Men movie:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuPKpzodDKI

And for the record, I could scarcely even care about comicbook superhero movies anymore, but the uproar over it? What're SJWs trying to do, just flat-out shut down the entertainment industry?

GoldfishX wrote:

Again, go back to Power Rangers...Diverse cast that never felt forced (to me...does it to anyone else?) and it's a fine show (mostly). But is it going to please everyone from a diversity perspective? No. At what point is there enough diversity? This is where the argument falls apart to me. You really can't please everyone.

I've heard SJWs criticize Power Rangers for making the black guy the Black Ranger and the Asian girl the Yellow Ranger, and of course, getting offended for making the OTHER (white?) girl the Pink Ranger, 'cuz pink is a girl's color ZOMGwaffles. You really CAN'T please everyone.

Jay wrote:

Thing is, DD, I wouldn't even try to take you up on any of that because it just oozes anger (over fictional game characters!) and you sound well beyond reasoning with.

I actually think we're having a pretty constructive discussion here.

Fact is, I'm TIRED of being BAITED into games that're really about social justice agendas. Like I said before, nobody likes to be preached DOWN to, no matter what it is being preached about.

Life Is Strange isn't really about time traveling, it's about lesbianism.

Gone Home isn't really about a spooky house, it's about lesbianism.

And you can think that feminism and lesbianism are about whatever textbook definition you want (Onision), but in practice, it's about giving the middle finger to the male half of the human species in general.

In public, I might go to a coffee shop, and there are sometimes gay or lesbian people there, I can tell when they're eyeing me with animosity, with a look in their eyes that says "What the hell is this guy doing here?" (which, I go to the same places quite regularly); I don't think the coffee shop I go to is specifically an LGBT joint, because the other people there otherwise look straight, and don't seem to have any problem with me.

It's not that I have a problem with LGBT people, but LGBT people don't really seem to like having me around, even though I'm minding my own business.

And, there is in fact ONE LGBT place I've been (I didn't know the place was LGBT, it's not like it was decorate with rainbows or anything), where they straight-up (tee-hee) asked me to leave, probably because they could tell from the way I looked, that I wasn't LGBT. I wasn't until I related this story to someone else who was familiar with the area, who told me I stumbled into an LGBT cafe.

No f***in' piece of fiction is going to get me to empathize/sympathize with [subset of the human population] if that particular [subset of people] treat me like s*** in person.

People want to talk about equality, but to some, that means either handicapping or giving an artificial advantage to some certain subset of the population.

And how far do you want to take that? I swear - this is just an exaggeration - SJWs are either going to start sawing the antlers off of male deer, or gluing them to the heads of female deer.

Razakin wrote:

Discontinued? You do realize that there was an episode two weeks ago? Lingerie is not armor

Well, holy s*** it's been 2 years or more since her last episode.

Razakin wrote:

And you should probably check the timestamps of that post, and know that not all of from US, and when I'm tired, I do make typos or miss words there and here, or mistype words because I've grown accustomed to type certain word in a way.

Yeah, probably not a good idea to try posting late at night when you're tired or in a hurry, if you actually want to end up sounding coherent.

I'd honestly still like to know what the word "Froathe" means.

Jay Jun 25, 2016

You sound scared of gay people. That you would sound angry over games that have gay people in them is the problem that better media representation might help fix. I wouldn't expect you to understand the issue when you are the issue. I'm fortunate to be in a position where I can make a difference in this area. We're doing some good.

By the way, happy Pride!

Dragonfish Dog Jun 25, 2016 (edited Jun 25, 2016)

Jay wrote:

You sound scared of gay people. That you would sound angry over games that have gay people in them is the problem that better media representation might help fix. I wouldn't expect you to understand the issue when you are the issue. I'm fortunate to be in a position where I can make a difference in this area. We're doing some good.

No, I got an issue with you and people like you making grandiose assumptions about me, and more or less thinking or calling me an assh*** based on said faulty assumptions. I'd actually like to stay cool with you, since you've been pretty cool with me up until now. I actually don't have a problem with you, personally. Some of your thoughts, though? Yeah.

I don't like people thinking that I'm something I'm not, no matter what it is.

Also, like I mentioned in above post, about the 2 coffee shops, LGBT people seem to have a problem with ME just being there just because I'm straight, NOT the other way around.

Jay Jun 25, 2016

I get together with gay people at least once a week and all we talk about is you. Judging you. Just you.

I'm joking of course. Just sounds more than a bit paranoid. Come on, hug it out.

Dragonfish Dog Jun 25, 2016 (edited Jun 25, 2016 by Adam Corn)

Jay wrote:

I get together with gay people at least once a week and all we talk about is you. Judging you. Just you.

I know you're just exaggerating.

Jay wrote:

I'm joking of course.

Yes, and I can see that.

Jay wrote:

Just sounds more than a bit paranoid.

I'm not the type to take offense at the drop of a hat.

Jay wrote:

Come on, hug it out.

Well, I'm cool with you, anyway.

Razakin Jun 25, 2016 (edited Jun 25, 2016)

Jay wrote:

I get together with gay people at least once a week and all we talk about is you. Judging you. Just you..

Oi, you shouldn't talk about our secret meetings with gay people where we judge Dragonbernie dogs. And control game industry to make games that lure poor Bernie Dogs into lesbianism.

Dragayfish Dog wrote:

In public, I might go to a coffee shop, and there are sometimes gay or lesbian people there, I can tell when they're eyeing me with animosity, with a look in their eyes that says "What the hell is this guy doing here?" (which, I go to the same places quite regularly); I don't think the coffee shop I go to is specifically an LGBT joint, because the other people there otherwise look straight, and don't seem to have any problem with me.

It's not that I have a problem with LGBT people, but LGBT people don't really seem to like having me around, even though I'm minding my own business.

And, there is in fact ONE LGBT place I've been (I didn't know the place was LGBT, it's not like it was decorate with rainbows or anything), where they straight-up (tee-hee) asked me to leave, probably because they could tell from the way I looked, that I wasn't LGBT. I wasn't until I related this story to someone else who was familiar with the area, who told me I stumbled into an LGBT cafe.

Yeah, LGBT people sure do have problems with you, and not the other way around. And how do you even notice if someone is gay or lesbian? You have a working gaydar? Because I for sure can't tell if someone is gay or not, unless they tell me. But guess your eyes really do have some gaydar that can pickup slight clues how LGBT people dress up. You really should check if the goverment could get you into some anti-terrorism special group, as you probably can tell who's a terrorist and who's not.

And seeing how type shit in here, I really doubt you do the same in real life. And you being asked to leave from LGBT cafe, I'm gonna 100% call bullshit on that, but cool story 'brah'.

But yeah, happy Pride Day for y'all.

Edit: Holy shit at that bloody shitty attempt of a 'joke'. You do same kind of shit with coloured people too?

Dragonfish Dog Jun 25, 2016 (edited Jun 25, 2016)

Razakin wrote:

Dragayfish Dog

Okay, yeah, if you don't want me "Insulting" or criticizing LGBT people, perhaps you shouldn't pull those kind of insults either, hmm? 'Cuz you're SO MUCH above me, that you can get away with that shit, right?

Razakin wrote:

And how do you even notice if someone is gay or lesbian? You have a working gaydar? Because I for sure can't tell if someone is gay or not, unless they tell me. But guess your eyes really do have some gaydar that can pickup slight clues how LGBT people dress up. You really should check if the goverment could get you into some anti-terrorism special group, as you probably can tell who's a terrorist and who's not.

Sleeveless shirts are usually a tip-off, as well as faux-hawks (if you don't know, it's a stupid-looking type of hair-do; look it up), piercings, tattoos (though those features aren't exclusive to LGBT people), but especially people who try to look real hard not to look either male or female, people who like androgynous, or people who try to look the opposite of what they really are.

Razakin wrote:

Edit: Holy shit at that bloody shitty attempt of a 'joke'. You do same kind of shit with coloured people too?

No, they don't snipe at me like you do.

You wonder why I prefer not to deal with LGBT people? Because when I do, they're assholes to me, like you have been to me this entire thread, and they'll be assholes to me when we're not even discussing issues of politics or religion. I never had any bias or prejudice against homosexual people, until I actually started running into actual homosexual people. You created the hate against yourselves by being assholes.

Adam Corn Jun 25, 2016

Removed Dragonfish Dog's "joke" of a homophobic slur.

DD if you are seriously trying to have a fair and open-minded conversation as opposed to just offending and degrading people then you should know better than to post that.

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