Soundtrack Central The best of VGM and other great soundtracks

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allyourbaseare Jul 28, 2009

It certainly maintains the same style as the first... 

How well did the first one sell?  Enough to warrant the subsequent games?

Idolores Jul 28, 2009

Wow, really? It was certainly convincing enough that I somehow don't feel too much like an idiot about it. tongue

Ashley Winchester Jul 28, 2009

allyourbaseare wrote:

How well did the first one sell?  Enough to warrant the subsequent games?

From what I read on various Mega Man dedicated sights, both games (Powered Up and Maverick Hunter X) didn't do as well as projected. Maverick Hunter X2 was initially in the wings but the plans where scrapped.

It makes sense they redid the first games in both series around the same time, but I think most people would agree the original Mega Man is not the game the drew them in. It's pretty much guaranteed if they did make Powered Up 2 based on MM2 it would sell more units.

As much as I like Mega Man, I really don't think a bunch of remakes are really the cure for what's ailing the franchise. Really, something like an X2 remake doesn't excite me. Additionally, can anyone tell me if Dr.Cain's death in the Day of Sigma OVA is canon or if he lives the whole way to X3 (last Appearance) or X4 (the mention of Cain Labs in the manual) as originally intented? Awesome video, but the series didn't need anymore plotholes.

Idolores Jul 28, 2009

I'm inclined to agree with The Winchester about Megaman not really needing remakes. I'm not sure if it's ever really bolstered the audiences awareness of the subject in question when it ever needed, but seeing as how X2 is my favorite entry in the SNES Megaman lineup, I'd still buy it.

I guess the subjective child in me says "Shit, yeah, bring it on!", the objective adult in me says "ehhhhh . . . . . ."

Amazingu Jul 29, 2009

Considering I loved both remakes, I would really like to see them redo MM2 and MMX2 as well, but I'm not holding my breath. Neither of them did well enough I think.

@Ashley: I don't know what the popular opinion is, but I refuse to regard Day of Sigma as being anywhere close to canon, it takes WAY too many liberties.

Smeg Jul 29, 2009

Ashley Winchester wrote:
allyourbaseare wrote:

How well did the first one sell?  Enough to warrant the subsequent games?

From what I read on various Mega Man dedicated sites, both games (Powered Up and Maverick Hunter X) didn't do as well as projected.

The problem is that they released them for PSP. If they'd put them out for a system I or someone I know has, I'd love to play them. Not buying a new handheld just for a Mega rehash though.

Idolores Jul 29, 2009

Smeg wrote:
Ashley Winchester wrote:
allyourbaseare wrote:

How well did the first one sell?  Enough to warrant the subsequent games?

From what I read on various Mega Man dedicated sites, both games (Powered Up and Maverick Hunter X) didn't do as well as projected.

The problem is that they released them for PSP. If they'd put them out for a system I or someone I know has, I'd love to play them. Not buying a new handheld just for a Mega rehash though.

I dunno if that's accurate. Dracula X Chronicles sold enough to make it a Greatest Hits title, didn't it? I always was under the impression that Megaman had the larger fanbase. Could be wrong, though.

Smeg Jul 29, 2009

Idolores wrote:
Smeg wrote:
Ashley Winchester wrote:

From what I read on various Mega Man dedicated sites, both games (Powered Up and Maverick Hunter X) didn't do as well as projected.

The problem is that they released them for PSP. If they'd put them out for a system I or someone I know has, I'd love to play them. Not buying a new handheld just for a Mega rehash though.

I dunno if that's accurate. Dracula X Chronicles sold enough to make it a Greatest Hits title, didn't it? I always was under the impression that Megaman had the larger fanbase. Could be wrong, though.

It is accurate in that I do not have a PSP :-p

SonicPanda Jul 29, 2009

This thread seems a good place to mention:
Capcom is re-releasing both Rockman Rockman and Irregular Hunter X together in a Value Pack this September, with a soundtrack sampler in the first print. In North America they'll be posting them on PSN before the year's out.
I own these releases twice already, and I will buy them again. Claims of soulless rehash bother me greatly, since
A, Powered Up is my all-time favorite MM title and Maverick Hunter's alright too,
and B, even the worst MM sidescroller towers over the BN/SF games like a giraffe among swine.

Support these releases, guys. Please.

Idolores Jul 30, 2009

SonicPanda wrote:

This thread seems a good place to mention:
Capcom is re-releasing both Rockman Rockman and Irregular Hunter X together in a Value Pack this September, with a soundtrack sampler in the first print. In North America they'll be posting them on PSN before the year's out.
I own these releases twice already, and I will buy them again. Claims of soulless rehash bother me greatly, since
A, Powered Up is my all-time favorite MM title and Maverick Hunter's alright too,
and B, even the worst MM sidescroller towers over the BN/SF games like a giraffe among swine.

Support these releases, guys. Please.

Soundtrack sampler? You know I'm there! Maybe enough people will jump on board and make Capcom give the green light to a MM and X2 remake sometime down the road.

Also, watch what you say about Battle Network. I happen to be a fan. wink Starforce can suck a dog's nutsack, though.

Ashley Winchester Jul 30, 2009 (edited Jul 30, 2009)

Idolores wrote:
Smeg wrote:
Ashley Winchester wrote:

From what I read on various Mega Man dedicated sites, both games (Powered Up and Maverick Hunter X) didn't do as well as projected.

The problem is that they released them for PSP. If they'd put them out for a system I or someone I know has, I'd love to play them. Not buying a new handheld just for a Mega rehash though.

I dunno if that's accurate. Dracula X Chronicles sold enough to make it a Greatest Hits title, didn't it? I always was under the impression that Megaman had the larger fanbase. Could be wrong, though.

Despite the impression the Greatest Hits label may give some, I don't think it's a very accurate symbol of a series/game's impact and/or brand power. For example, Final Fantasy VII was (obviously) a GH title and to this day has a huge and a very devout (and sometimes scary) fan base. Now take Legend of Dragoon; it was a greatest hit as well, but outside a small group of players the title was mostly forgotten.

Point is, while Legend of Dragoon may have been a success from a basic sales point of view, it most likely didn't sell as many copies as SCEJ would have liked in their attempt to capture some of Squaresoft's RPG's pie at the time, thus wasn't a success in that sense of the word - which, let's be honest - was what Sony was after when they made the game. The latter could explain why we never saw a follow up or prequel.

The Mega Man Legends shares somewhat of a similar fate, yet a little different. While the first game did indeed hit the Greatest Hits plateau, the follow ups didn't. This could possibly have to do with what else was out on the market at the time - Legends 2 and MoTB could have much stiffer competition than the original. I'm sure there are any number of games almost anyone can name that may have such a disadvantage. Still, as far as Mega Man Legends goes, as much as I love the world that it brought to life, I believe more believe the series was a failure than a success at this point. And that makes me very sad (*sniff*)

Another, better example of the above would be the original Wild Arms vs Wild Arms 2. When the original Wild Arms came out Final Fantasy VII was a few months off. That was obviously a good thing. Unfortunately, when Wild Arms 2 came out three years later, Squaresoft's PSX RPG machine was in full swing (FFIX was '99/00) and the fact it was passed up and buried by Square's sleek and eye catching games was not surprising.

Amazingu Jul 30, 2009

SonicPanda wrote:

and B, even the worst MM sidescroller towers over the BN/SF games like a giraffe among swine.

I won't touch on the SF series, but Battle Network is awesome.
What on earth don't you like about them!?

SonicPanda Jul 30, 2009

Idolores wrote:

Also, watch what you say about Battle Network. I happen to be a fan. ;) Starforce can suck a dog's nutsack, though.

Amazingu wrote:

I won't touch on the SF series, but Battle Network is awesome.
What on earth don't you like about them!?

Sorry guys, no umbrage intended. I've bought all the games, and have tried multiple times to play the first one through, and it starts out well enough, I'll admit - the combat system is very clever, and I actually like some of the redesigns very much. But by the time the dungeons get more complex and labyrinthine (it starts becoming a pain around Iceman's level and I've usually had my fill by the time I reach Elecman's scenario), and the encounter rate doesn't dissipate at all, I find myself hating the damned thing, and invariably give up.
I suppose I'll force myself through them eventually, and perhaps learn to appreciate them more, but I've never encountered an MM platformer I've had to force myself through, even universally-recognized turds like X7.

In fact, let's try this - you guys seem pretty up on the games, so I have to assume we're doing things differently. It's kind of disappointing that I've never made appreciable headway in the series and it's been enough time since my last stab that I'm willing to give it another shot. So...help me out here, guys. Help me to get to what I've been missing.

Idolores Jul 30, 2009

SonicPanda wrote:

But by the time the dungeons get more complex and labyrinthine (it starts becoming a pain around Iceman's level and I've usually had my fill by the time I reach Elecman's scenario), and the encounter rate doesn't dissipate at all, I find myself hating the damned thing, and invariably give up.

In fact, let's try this - you guys seem pretty up on the games, so I have to assume we're doing things differently. It's kind of disappointing that I've never made appreciable headway in the series and it's been enough time since my last stab that I'm willing to give it another shot. So...help me out here, guys. Help me to get to what I've been missing.

Well, as far as the faults you mentioned above go, I'd say that things like labyrinth-like dungeons and plentiful encounter rates are pretty typical RPG-fare. With that said, you're either going to hate that aspect, or simply tolerate it. I been putting up with it ever since I loaded Dragon Warrior into my NES, so it has never once bothered me.

The things I did like about the game were it's light-hearted atmosphere, interesting robot redesigns, and likable characters, and if that won't have drawn you in, then I don't imagine forcing yourself through the game simply for the sake of beating it will sweeten your opinion on it (not to mention there are six of these games). You could just as well read a plot synopsis on Wikipedia or something and be done with it.

SonicPanda Jul 31, 2009

Idolores wrote:

Well, as far as the faults you mentioned above go, I'd say that things like labyrinth-like dungeons and plentiful encounter rates are pretty typical RPG-fare. With that said, you're either going to hate that aspect, or simply tolerate it. I been putting up with it ever since I loaded Dragon Warrior into my NES, so it has never once bothered me.

The things I did like about the game were it's light-hearted atmosphere, interesting robot redesigns, and likable characters, and if that won't have drawn you in, then I don't imagine forcing yourself through the game simply for the sake of beating it will sweeten your opinion on it (not to mention there are six of these games). You could just as well read a plot synopsis on Wikipedia or something and be done with it.

I've played a good amount of RPGs too, and Battle Network is one of only three I've encountered (alongside Skies of Arcadia and MMX Command Mission) where the encounter rate seemed especially high; it's probably more noticable in BN because I find its puzzles to be more difficult than the average RPG stumpers and retrace a lot of ground figuring it out.

I do like the things you've mentioned as well as the battle system (and as far as the plot goes, I already know most of it, and Legends games aside, story isn't really what you play MM for, you know?), certainly I wouldn't still be willing to give it another shot if I didn't enjoy some aspects. It's those damned dungeons that sour me on the whole deal. I'll keep trying, regardless.

Getting back to my original point though, Powered Up is awesome.

Ashley Winchester Jul 31, 2009 (edited Jul 31, 2009)

SonicPanda wrote:

Legends games aside, story isn't really what you play MM for, you know

I don't know, I liked where the X series was going up to X4 and most of X5. After that, didn't really start caring again until the end of X8 where they finally gave Axl a reason to exist.

Amazingu Jul 31, 2009

SonicPanda wrote:

In fact, let's try this - you guys seem pretty up on the games, so I have to assume we're doing things differently. It's kind of disappointing that I've never made appreciable headway in the series and it's been enough time since my last stab that I'm willing to give it another shot. So...help me out here, guys. Help me to get to what I've been missing.

I think Idolores covered most of the important aspects, but what I particularly like is how the BN games actually award skillful combat (instead of punishing mistakes) by earning you chips and stuff.
If you've only played the first game, I must urge you to play the second, which is much much better.

The labyrinthine puzzle-filled 'dungeons' won't really go away, but there's a ton of replay value if you're a completist (good luck earning everything in ANY of the games) and I just find the battle system incredible addictive and rewarding.

For the hell of it, here's how I would rank them: 2, 6, 3, 1, 5, 4

DON'T bother with 4.

Dais Jul 31, 2009

SonicPanda wrote:

Help me to get to what I've been missing.

okay.

skip the first, play the second and third. The games are MUCH better, although the encounter rate is still annoyingly high (although the bigger problem is the idiotic decision of having about 1/3 of the games NPCs and shops sitting around in the internet where you encounter enemies). The MMBN series has a problem where the designers were intelligent enough to keep refining the games and adding interesting new content, as well as swerve away from things that fans truly hated (like the awful design of the main story in 4), but the absurd popularity of the series means they never really fixed some of the biggest problems (high encounter rate, short music loops, brain-dead characters).

Starting with MMBN 2, something was actually done to handle the encounter rate. It's been a while since I played the first game, so I might have a few details wrong, but...

While Mega Man.exe heals fully after every battle in the first game, the series treats HP more like a usual RPG after that - it restores fully only when you jack out of the internet (or some special event heals you). However, combat is rebalanced pretty well, and the game adds a vital new element - SubChips. Subchips basically work like normal RPG inventory items, although you can't use them in battle. They're bought from special shops that exist in most non-dungeon areas, both online and off. There's six of them:

MiniEnrg - Restores 50 HP

FullEnrg - Restores all HP

Untrap - Use it when next to a mystery data crystal and it will remove any traps (viruses). I'm too stupid to use these myself, so I have no idea if you lose them when used on a non-trapped crystal. I imagine they're very useful in the Undernet.

Unlocker - One of the more annoying additions, there's now purple mystery data crystals that require an Unlocker subchip to open, and they set you back a couple thousand zenny. The items are almost always really good ones, though.

SneakRun - The one you want to know about - for a period of time, you won't encounter any weak viruses at all. I have to admit I'm usually too stupid to use this one, either, but it's pretty cheap at only 200z.

LocEnemy - If you use this after getting into a battle, you have a very high chance of encountering the same viruses again in your next encounter. Useful for trying to get certain chips, although I don't use these much unless I'm looking for one for a fetch quest.

Unfortunately, you can only carry four of a particular subchip at a time. Like the HPMemorys you find, you'll also find four SubMemorys throughout the game that will increase that cap by one, but most of them are in unpleasant areas. The later games are a bit more generous with giving them to you.

There are several other new things in MMBN2 - Styles replace armors (although they don't appear until considerably later in the game), and you can now set a "regular" chip to always be one of the five chips you get at the start of a battle. However, chips now all have a MB requirement, and you need to have that amount of "regular memory" or higher to set it as your regular chip. As you can imagine, you find upgrades throughout the game to raise this amount, allowing you to set more powerful chips as your regular chip.

MMBN 3 ditches powerups to introduce the Navi Customizer system, which is quite possibly the most innovative system in the series and became part of every game after that (well, I haven't played 6, and don't remember 5 that well). But I highly suggest you play 2 first.

also note that with 2 onwards, the internet areas are actually broken up into different designs - you'll have one set of graphics tiles for the AC/DC area, another for the downtown network, another for the SciLab network and so on. This makes the net MUCH less of a headache to navigate.


oh, one thing I feel like mentioning - there is something good about Mega Man Battle Network 4, but it's only in the Japanese version. Every time you save, the game resets the numbers that affect when you get into battles, so by saving repeatedly you can theoretically never get into any random battles at all.

Amazingu Jul 31, 2009

Nice write-up Dais!
Nice to see there's more people enjoying this series.
Like I said, I don't care much for the Starforce series, but Battle Network is awesome.

I'm very curious as to how that newly announced Starforce/BN crossover/remake is going to be.

Dais wrote:

Untrap - Use it when next to a mystery data crystal and it will remove any traps (viruses). I'm too stupid to use these myself, so I have no idea if you lose them when used on a non-trapped crystal. I imagine they're very useful in the Undernet.

Yes, you do lose them.
If you're too worried about getting a virus, save before opening the mystery data.
If it DOES turn out to be a virus, soft reset and use untrap (the contents aren't entirely random, soft-resetting will not change what is inside)

Dais wrote:

SneakRun - The one you want to know about - for a period of time, you won't encounter any weak viruses at all. I have to admit I'm usually too stupid to use this one, either, but it's pretty cheap at only 200z.

LocEnemy - If you use this after getting into a battle, you have a very high chance of encountering the same viruses again in your next encounter. Useful for trying to get certain chips, although I don't use these much unless I'm looking for one for a fetch quest.

These two items are vital if you want to get all the Navi chips.
Using SneakRun greatly increases your chances of running into a Navi, and you'll want to use LocEnemy to fight him again.

Dais wrote:

MMBN 3 ditches powerups to introduce the Navi Customizer system, which is quite possibly the most innovative system in the series and became part of every game after that (well, I haven't played 6, and don't remember 5 that well). But I highly suggest you play 2 first.

Every BN after 3 has the Navi Customizer.
4 and 5 may not have been up to snuff, but I recommend you do play 6, cos it's a very good return to form. Seems like they listened to the fans.

Dais Jul 31, 2009

I'd like to play six, and I admit I haven't read that much about it (except satisfying my curiosity as to the ending concluding the series), but I kind of have an unsupported suspicion of it. The differences between the two versions of 4 and 5 were pretty big, and despite how dumb and predictable the stories are, a big reason I play the games is to see what happens to the characters (especially bit characters like Higsby and Anna Mori/Nanako). I rarely play through any game twice, so I develop absurd fears of missing interesting things by only playing one version.

Ashley Winchester Jul 31, 2009

SonicPanda wrote:

This thread seems a good place to mention:
Capcom is re-releasing both Rockman Rockman and Irregular Hunter X together in a Value Pack this September, with a soundtrack sampler in the first print.

Half interested in the soundtrack sampler, depends what tracks make it on there. Still, the list of the music I like from each game is very small:

Powered Up: "Dr.Wily Stage 1," "Boss"

Toshihiko Horiyama tears these up something fierce but the cutesy aura that can be found in the stage themes is a bit much even though it fits the game. Not too big on MM1's soundtrack to begin with.

Maverick Hunter X: "Boomer Kuwanger Stage ~ Fortress Tower," "Stage Clear X"

Generally, when I see Shinya Okada credited on a Rockman album I stay away, although Command Mission worked for me for some reason; probably because there was no preconceptions about what to expect musically from the game compared to a remake. Now, when I see Akemi Kimura's name on a Rockman soundtrack I get very excited - practically gitty.

SonicPanda Aug 1, 2009

Wow. Thanks for the advice and recommendations, guys, you really came through. I'm definitely getting back on this horse.
As far as the soundtrack sampler goes, I'll be happy if it has Gutsman and the boss themes from PU (Cutman's arrangement is a bit weak, though), and Kuwanger's, Mammoth's and Sigma Stage 1's themes (Eagle's arrangement sucks outright, however).

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