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avatar! Feb 1, 2006

This has me wondering, maybe from  now on companies will release good, maybe even excellent games, which perhaps were not quite completed as planned and perhaps not quite as good as they should be...then after sales have declined, BAMB!  you suddenly have the "Limited" or "Special" edition which has all these "extras" and features which the first game should have had anyway!  Why pay for a game once, when you can pay for it twice?  This is the same thing Hollywood does by releaseing movies, then widescreen movies, then special edition, then limited edition with 2 extra disks...

bleh!!

What think you?

-avatar!

POPOBOT5000 Feb 1, 2006 (edited Feb 1, 2006)

More like "wave of the past six years or so." It's less common in games than with movies, but it's happening more and more with games, too. I do see it happening more in the future too, as, frankly, it works.

Although I don't consider widescreen movies a new/improved version, since many movies are initially released in widescreen and full-frame by default.

SonicPanda Feb 2, 2006

POPOBOT5000 wrote:

More like "wave of the past six years or so."

I'd say it's been going on longer than that...Street Fighter alone is a poster child for staggered incremental upgrades.

Still, I get the main point at hand. I would say if you have the patience, simply wait and get the big-ticket titles used and reserve your 'voting' dollars for the little-releases-that-should. It's prudent, it helps support solid products L'il Joey won't go for, and every once in a while, your patience is rewarded with something like DMC3:SE coming out while you were waiting for the original to drop ten more bucks.

XLord007 Feb 2, 2006

There are really two issues here.  One, there is Subsistence, the improved version of MGS3 coming out 1.3 years after the original.  Two, there is the fact that Subsistence is being released in two versions: regular and limited, with a $10 price difference between them.

For the first issue, I generally don't have a problem with these improved releases as long as the improvements are substantial and the price is minimal (Subsistence passes the first test but fails the second).  I do however wish that they all allowed the save file from the original game to be utilized so that returning gamers could continue where they left off instead of having to start from scratch.

For the second issue, I generally am not thrilled with regular and premium versions of the same game, and I'll usually go for the cheaper version unless the bonus in the LE version is either spectacular or the game is from a series that means a lot to me.  I prefer bonus items to be pre-order bonuses at no extra cost or limited first run things.

Angela Feb 3, 2006

XLord007 wrote:

For the first issue, I generally don't have a problem with these improved releases as long as the improvements are substantial and the price is minimal (Subsistence passes the first test but fails the second).

Really?  I would think that $29.99 USD -- for the standard edition, at least -- is a fair enough price to be considered 'minimal.'  Consider that Substance, when first released, was going for $39.99.  When taking into account the number of substantial new features that's going to be included in Subsistence, I'd say the price is more than reasonable.

avatar! wrote:

This has me wondering, maybe from  now on companies will release good, maybe even excellent games, which perhaps were not quite completed as planned and perhaps not quite as good as they should be...then after sales have declined, BAMB!  you suddenly have the "Limited" or "Special" edition which has all these "extras" and features which the first game should have had anyway!  Why pay for a game once, when you can pay for it twice?

In Subsistence's defense, recall how the story goes; from Kojima: "Originally, for Metal Gear Solid 3 we didn't have any plans to release Subsistence.   But when Kojima Productions went on a European tour after the release of Metal Gear Solid 3, there were so many voices from the European consumers that they wanted something like Integral or Substance, and therefore we decided to bring out Subsistence."

It's apparent that people *are* willing to pay for a game twice - and does go to show that there is a demand for this sort of thing.  The rationalization of "double-dipping" is always a touchy subject, but you're at least given the options; if early adopters like the game enough and deem the extra content worthy, they'll buy the enhanced version, or at least find a way to play the extra stuff.  If not, they certainly aren't forced into buying the new version.

And, if you're one of the 'lucky' folks who waited out this long by not playing the original, well, then you're in the best possible position, aren't you? ;)

avatar! Feb 4, 2006

It's apparent that people *are* willing to pay for a game twice - and does go to show that there is a demand for this sort of thing.  The rationalization of "double-dipping" is always a touchy subject, but you're at least given the options; if early adopters like the game enough and deem the extra content worthy, they'll buy the enhanced version, or at least find a way to play the extra stuff.  If not, they certainly aren't forced into buying the new version.

True, you aren't forced into buying the new version, but a new release makes your original version worth little, and you also feel like you were slightly gypped.  Plus, I don't really buy this "we did it only because our fans wanted it" excuse.  I remember there was a huge push to get Dragon Warrior IV released on the PSX, but Enix said "nope, ain't gonna happen" and that was that.  I think with the success of such "limited" and "special editions", we're going to see a lot more of these.  Well, I'm not saying this is horrendous, but I do find it a bit obnoxious. 

cheers,

-avatar!

shdwrlm3 Feb 4, 2006

And, if you're one of the 'lucky' folks who waited out this long by not playing the original, well, then you're in the best possible position, aren't you? wink

In my case, I'm not so much "lucky" as I am "cheap" ^_^  I rarely buy games at full retail price anymore, and usually try to wait for them to hit the 20 dollar mark.  I was able to hold off on getting Virtua Fighter 4 when it came out, and was rewarded for my patience/frugalness with Virtua Fighter 4 Evolution when it was released as a GH title. The recent rash of 2-in-1 games for the GBA has been great for gamers as well, particularly those who may have missed out on the GBA Castlevanias.

True, you aren't forced into buying the new version, but a new release makes your original version worth little, and you also feel like you were slightly gypped.

I'd rather have my original version worth little than have to keep it in order to play expansion packs.  Koei are notorious for forcing players to "disc swap" in order to access all of the features of the expansion games, and sadly, I keep buying them >_<

csK Feb 4, 2006 (edited Feb 4, 2006)

Defunct Games actually had an excellent write up on this which echoes what you're thinking:

http://www.defunctgames.com/onrunningfeuds/feuds-90.php

As for me, on an ethical level I don't like it.  However, personally, I almost NEVER buy games even within a year of release (much less near the launch date), mainly because there are already so many games that have already been released that I am consistently purchasing (and because I'm cheap).

In fact, I think I may finally get around to buying MGS3 now!

csK Feb 4, 2006

By the way, I was unaware of a Limited Subsistence edition, do you have the details on it?

XLord007 Feb 4, 2006

csK wrote:

By the way, I was unaware of a Limited Subsistence edition, do you have the details on it?

All I know is that it comes with some sort of bonus DVD.  The retailer listings are rather vague.

XLord007 Feb 4, 2006

Angela wrote:

Really?  I would think that $29.99 USD -- for the standard edition, at least -- is a fair enough price to be considered 'minimal.'  Consider that Substance, when first released, was going for $39.99.  When taking into account the number of substantial new features that's going to be included in Subsistence, I'd say the price is more than reasonable.

$29.99 is plenty reasonable if you don't own MGS3.  However, as an owner of MGS3, I've already spent $50 and I don't want to spend another $30 just to get the camera angle that should have been in the game the first time around (the other new features don't do anything for me).

Angela Feb 4, 2006 (edited Feb 4, 2006)

XLord007 wrote:
csK wrote:

By the way, I was unaware of a Limited Subsistence edition, do you have the details on it?

All I know is that it comes with some sort of bonus DVD.  The retailer listings are rather vague.

The bonus DVD is the "EXISTENCE" disc that was included with the limited edition run of Subsistence in Japan.  It contains a three hour-plus movie, which Kojima created and edited from the cutscenes from the main Snake Eater game.  It can also be played on any DVD player, and not just the PS2.

In addition, preordering either edition of the game will net you the Metal Gear Saga Vol. 1, a DVD which boasts an overview of the entire series, interviews with Kojima, and trailers of all of Kojima Productions' most recent game projects. (Including Subsistence, Acid!2, and MGS4.)

Metal Gear Saga Vol. 1

EDIT: And in case it hasn't been seen yet, there's an interview with Saga's director, Ryan Payton:

http://www.gameinformer.com/News/Story/ … .16198.htm

Angela Feb 20, 2006

Hm, it's interesting to note that the Limited Edition may very well be limited; apparently, many places have stopped taking pre-orders for the LE, including Gamestop and EBgames.  At least, their sites no longer seem to have it up anymore.

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