Soundtrack Central The best of VGM and other great soundtracks

Please sign up or log in for the best forum experience!

    Pages: 1

Amazingu May 17, 2009 (edited May 17, 2009)

I'm sure some of you are already aware of this, but Kojima Productions has a timer up, which recently added a big 5 (or S?):

http://www.konami.jp/kojima_pro/next/?ref=koji_pro_e

The Internets are of course running rampant with speculation, but if you check the source code the Keywords say: Hideo Kojima, MGS,METAL GEAR, NEXT, game, konami, kojima game, KJP, Kojima Production

Could we really be getting an MGS5 announcement this soon, or do you suppose this is an S, standing for MGS4 Subwhatever?

Angela May 17, 2009

Amazingu wrote:

Could we really be getting an MGS5 announcement this soon, or do you suppose this is an S, standing for MGS4 Subwhatever?

My gut feeling is telling me that this amount of hype for an announcement is much too great for a Substance/Subsistence title.  There were already development rumblings about MGS5 even shortly after MGS4 came out -- and though it's against my nature for me to say that I wouldn't mind them giving the series a bit of a rest at this point, I'm gonna go with the popular theory:

"Metal Gear Solid 5: Raiden".

After all, he was the "lightening in that rain."

Dais May 18, 2009

gamefly has a listing for a Konami Wii/360/PS3 title called "Tornado Outbreak", and they've been known to....whoa, massive deja vu.

Jay May 18, 2009

What's quite funny about this is the mention of April 2007, which is at the bottom of the image and can be seen when it flashes white for the lightning. It seems to be bringing up some speculation but it seems so much simpler than that.

The border has been ripped from the Grindhouse poster by some lazy web designer who didn't put enough effort into hiding it and the Grindhouse 'coming soon' date is still on the bottom.

Herrkotowski May 18, 2009

Angela wrote:
Amazingu wrote:

Could we really be getting an MGS5 announcement this soon, or do you suppose this is an S, standing for MGS4 Subwhatever?

My gut feeling is telling me that this amount of hype for an announcement is much too great for a Substance/Subsistence title.  There were already development rumblings about MGS5 even shortly after MGS4 came out -- and though it's against my nature for me to say that I wouldn't mind them giving the series a bit of a rest at this point, I'm gonna go with the popular theory:

"Metal Gear Solid 5: Raiden".

After all, he was the "lightening in that rain."

And then there was that last slide in Kojima's GDC conference that said something along the lines of:

NEXT: Metal Gear Solid and had a picture of Raiden on it.

Or something like that. I know his presentation was a timeline type deal about the evolution of the Metal Gear series and that was one of the last slides.

Zane Jun 28, 2009

Here's something way interesting that I found on disc 2 of MGS3 Subsistence in the Secret Theater:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFJ24qvqIjI

Obviously there are MGS3 scene spoilers in there... but the real point of relevant interest is the very last line of conversation between Raiden and Rose. And the movie is hilarious as well, so you should probably watch it in its entirety.

allyourbaseare Jun 29, 2009

Not to hijack the thread but I started up the original Metal Gear Solid yesterday.  Pretty good so far, even if I can't get past the first shooting scene .

Angela Jun 29, 2009

Zane wrote:

Here's something way interesting that I found on disc 2 of MGS3 Subsistence in the Secret Theater:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFJ24qvqIjI

Obviously there are MGS3 scene spoilers in there... but the real point of relevant interest is the very last line of conversation between Raiden and Rose. And the movie is hilarious as well, so you should probably watch it in its entirety.

Yeah, that little commentary at the end was always meant to be a tongue-in-cheek joke.  But now, perhaps it has more relevance than we initially thought. :)

allyourbaseare wrote:

Not to hijack the thread but I started up the original Metal Gear Solid yesterday.  Pretty good so far, even if I can't get past the first shooting scene .

Picked the game up on PSN, I imagine?  I always played that part by unconventional methods, and choked each of the rushing soldiers to death.  It's faster and more effective if you've got the trigger finger for it.

Would love to hear your thoughts on the game as you progress.  If you're so inclined:

http://www.soundtrackcentral.com/forums … hp?id=3342

Shoe Jun 29, 2009 (edited Jun 29, 2009)

allyourbaseare wrote:

Not to hijack the thread but I started up the original Metal Gear Solid yesterday.  Pretty good so far, even if I can't get past the first shooting scene .

Try the GameCube remake instead, it's the overall superior version.

(the reason it has framerate/slowdown problems is because it's running on the engine code written for MGS2 on ps2, which didn't port to the Cube's CPU so cleanly...)


A cleaned-up Wii-make would be really nice at this point.

Angela Jun 29, 2009

Shoe wrote:

Try the GameCube version instead, it's the overall superior version.

Nope.

Dais Jun 29, 2009

the PC port of MGS: Integral is pretty good from what I recall....actually, come to think of it, it's one of the best console-to-PC ports from before the middleware era.

I have a link somewhere to a guy who worked on it who was going to make some replacement textures but wasn't able to, but I never got around to reading all of what he said because I discovered his site while researching the unreleased SNES game released on the film adaptation of "The Shadow" (as in "Who knows what lurks in the hearts of men?"), and I was kind of repulsed by the fact that he thought the game (which he worked on) was actually much better than the movie, and while I admit my memories of the movie are pretty hazy, I can vividly and painfully recall the time I spent playing the game in order to make an SPC set, and all I can say to that is "nooooooooooooooo you are wrong"

anyways then they made the PC port of MGS2 the worst one, worse apparently than the half-assed Xbox one even, and then they didn't port MGS3 and I became sad

Shoe Jun 29, 2009

Angela wrote:
Shoe wrote:

Try the GameCube version instead, it's the overall superior version.

Nope.

Care to be a little more specific..?

Angela Jun 30, 2009

Shoe wrote:

Care to be a little more specific..?

Only if you're willing to be more specific on why you believe it's the overall superior version.

allyourbaseare Jun 30, 2009

Angela wrote:
Shoe wrote:

Try the GameCube version instead, it's the overall superior version.

Nope.

I'm a big believer in playing something the way it was originally made.  That is why I'm doing the PSN copy (which is pretty much 99.99% the same as the original). 

It's also the same reason why Final Fantasy IV on the Super Nintendo was, and always will be, the best version.

Dais Jun 30, 2009

allyourbaseare wrote:
Angela wrote:
Shoe wrote:

Try the GameCube version instead, it's the overall superior version.

Nope.

I'm a big believer in playing something the way it was originally made.  That is why I'm doing the PSN copy (which is pretty much 99.99% the same as the original). 

It's also the same reason why Final Fantasy IV on the Super Nintendo was, and always will be, the best version.

Japanese or American?

Shoe-RONICS Jun 30, 2009 (edited Jun 30, 2009)

Angela wrote:
Shoe wrote:

Care to be a little more specific..?

Only if you're willing to be more specific on why you believe it's the overall superior version.

Much nicer graphics, more refined gameplay and actual, ahem, 'substance' (like being able to aim your weapons in First-Person Mode), dogtag collecting for a diversion if you're feeling up to it, DOLBY PRO-LOGIC II support, Progressive-Scan support, more realistic American voice-acting from The Ninja, Mei-Ling, and Dr. Naomi (this time around, they seem to understand the storyline better, in that this game is dealing with hostage situations and weapons of mass-destruction, it's not supposed to sound like some ditzy dating-simulation soap opera), and I also much like the control scheme for the 'gentle uncocking of your M9/ SOCOM' compared to MGS2's very creative but totally unpractical in-the-heat-of-battle 'slow unpressing of the analog Square Button scheme'.

My main gripes with MGS Cubed are the re-writes of some lines that were fine as they were in the ps1 version (Psycho Mantis's final dying sentence is probably the most glaring 'change for the worse' example), and no option to switch/ toggle the R Button's function with the Z Button's function (it would be a really nice option for people who play a lot of Resident Evil games and are accustomed to aiming with the R Button, and don't mind selecting between their Metal Gear weapons with the Z Button).

I am still crossing my fingers in hopes that Kojima will release a true end-all to end-all Director's Cut of this wonderfully cold and arctic mood-setting masterpiece someday.

I would like to see an option to choose between 1998 and 2004 US voice casts, and the Japanese and German voice casts as well.

I understand that Nintendo has its exclusivity contract with Konami for this remade edition of the game, so unless it eventually expires or Sony buys the rights from Nintendo, I'd be very content with a cleaned-up Final Director's Cut version on either the Wii or the Wii's eventual successor.

Okay, now it's your turn, Angie.

Angela Jun 30, 2009

Shoe-RONICS wrote:

Okay, now it's your turn, Angie.

I'm about to leave work for the evening, but I promise you a rebuke tomorrow.

Oh yes, a rebukin' there shall be.

Amazingu Jun 30, 2009

Dais wrote:
allyourbaseare wrote:

I'm a big believer in playing something the way it was originally made.  That is why I'm doing the PSN copy (which is pretty much 99.99% the same as the original). 

It's also the same reason why Final Fantasy IV on the Super Nintendo was, and always will be, the best version.

Japanese or American?

Which do YOU think is the best version, Dais?

Cos if you say Japanese, you're probably a masochist.

Angela Jul 1, 2009

Right, let's dance.  Lemme start by repeating a statement I declared back when the game released.  "What The Twin Snakes boils down to is this: it tries to 'luxuriously fuse the story of MGS1 with the gameplay of MGS2,' but it doesn't do neither as well as the originals did."  That's my thought behind much of TTS.  But let's take these in turn.

Graphics.  On first blush, the new coat of paint is comparatively slick, but when you step back and view the design as a whole, one finds that it lacks a lot of what makes the original so distinguished.  Much of the gritty, cold feel of Alaska's Shadow Moses is wiped away by the brighter, cleaner, but more sterile-looking textures.  I understand they had the best of intentions in trying to fit MGS1's locales into a MGS2 outfit, but the look worked better in MGS2 because of that game's inherent color palette.

Then there's the modeling and animation on some of the characters, which is hit and miss in a lot of places.  It's subjective, but there were things that just didn't look or feel right.  Otacon's face was too long.  Snake looked much too clean in the face.  The DARPA Chief had that weird fluctuation with his hair every time he turned his head.  The most irksome bit was how STIFF Snake looked during some of the more dialogue-heavy movie sequences.  And by "stiff", I mean his arms; they just sort of hang there like wet noodles, without any attempt at gesticulation.  That seems like a nit-picking thing to say, but to me, it looked freakish and awful; a very sore point for a game that's trying to go for a realistic cinematic angle.  By that count, I actually prefer the jerky movements and expressionless look of the original.  Leaves more to the imagination.

The direction of the new cutscenes is another point of conviction.  At the very least, I suspect a lot of folks enjoyed Ryuhei Kitamura's over-the-top take on MGS's classic cinematic sequences...... heck, I certainly did.  But I also believe that most everyone would agree it's not canon.  Snake's a genetic super soldier, but that doesn't mean he should be flamboyantly leaping off Hind D missiles, hurling grenades with pinpoint accuracy into tank gun turrets, and Matrix-twirling past sheets of concrete being tossed at him.  It places a needlessly artificial vibe on what is, for the most part, a realistically told story.  Some of the new takes seemed like odd choices and completely out of character, too - most glaring to the point of disturbance is the way Snake loses it and points the gun at Baker for forgetting Meryl's codec frequency.  I mean, what in the world was that?

Next up is the sound design.  Yet again we could come to subjective blows in regards to the new voice dub, but I personally thought TTS featured the far inferior one.  It isn't even so much the change of accents that bothered me is the fact the the performances lacked the magnetism and emotional punch of the original.  As much as I appreciated Hayter going the extra mile in rounding up most of the original cast, the direction they were given seemed horribly misplaced, with several pivotal sequences simply not having the same sort of resonance as the original.  Some of the re-writes to make the game more 'Nintendo' friendly hurt the script; I rolled my eyes at the Jurassic Park reference, and mourned for the loss of Ocelot's "silver bullet in a well-greased chamber" analogy.

The sound effects, too, which were completely remastered, turned out for the worse.  I don't claim to be a weapons expert by any means, but even I could tell the original featured more accurate gunshot sound samples.  Why does it sound like a multi-turret cannon going off for the FA-MAS machine gun?  Why is the SOCOM shot so muffled, even without a suppressor?  Perhaps this has to do with the fact that sound director series mainstay Kazuki Muraoka wasn't involved, but the sound was definitely not up to the MGS standard of quality for this one.  It's as if Silicon Knights decided to cull from a bank of exaggerated cartoon sound effects for their sound track.  Try doing Snake's punch-punch kick combo on a foe, or have Snake himself get knocked down; I half-expected some hokey 60s Batman-style onamonopoeia blurbs to start flashing across the screen.  This also extends to the use of voices.  Try choking your enemy, and listen to the forced gagging.  Or whenever you shoot Ocelot and he lets off that hilariously awful monosyllabic scream.

One more thing I miss in terms of the sound design was the original's use of the "echo" effect.  From in-game sound effects to cutscenes and voices, the echo was strangely affecting in lending to the game's cold, desolate feel.  The remastered soundtrack does away with the echo, which does result in a warmer, cleaner sound, but also robs the game of its intended feeling.

The newly composed music score was a general let-down.  Don't get me wrong, it's a decent Metal Gear soundtrack on its own terms, but when you take away such defining pieces like the original Encounter, Escape, and Enclosure, as well as scaling back on every single thematic variation of The Best Is Yet To Come, then there's hell to be paid.  I wept bitter tears when I was listening to that new drum 'n bass crap instead of the riveting "Duel" when battling Liquid. 

Finally, we come to the gameplay, which is the make or break for this remake.  It all sounds terrific on paper: MGS2's highly lauded gameplay, combined with MGS1's envelope-pushing game design.  The problem was they literally superimposed MGS2's gameplay RIGHT ON TOP of the original MGS1 design, and as a result, things simply don't work in a lot of places.  Environments are almost exactly the same in terms of exploratory size, so there's always a feeling of confinement.  With little wiggle room comes few opportunities for the player to really make use of the MGS2 gameplay mechanics.  Not only that, some bosses were made ridiculously easy, thanks to the new first person shooting.  It robbed the innovative approaches one needed to take in the original fights.

All of this on a controller that is simply not apt for the Metal Gear Solid template.  Actually, it could've been, had Silicon Knights attempted to take a decent stab at emulating the layout of the Playstation control scheme.  Instead, they went ahead and completely remapped the Gamecube's face buttons in a nonsensical and confusing order.  And the less said about the terrible placement of the 'Z' button for first-person, the better.

Now we come to the infamous slowdown and framerate drops, which not only look aesthetically awful, but they happen so frequently that they actually crippled the gameplay.  It made first person shooting and even simple movement a painful, jittery chore.  The programming reeked of beta testing, and frankly, the end result is shameful.  Different console infrastructures or not, you don't go ahead with the idea of remaking a game as distinguished as MGS, and then go half-assed on it by not even getting it to run competently.

I know it sounds like I'm being overly harsh here, but as a diehard fan of the original and the series, The Twin Snakes just felt like a wasted opportunity.  Having said this, I did play through the game a fair number of times, and even made top ranking on the online leaderboards at one point.  The inclusion of dogtag collecting extended the replay value, and things like DPL-II and prog-scan support were nice little perks.  I can't fault the game for at least being Metal Gear at its core, but as far as being the "overall superior version"?  Not a chance in hell.

Shoe Jul 2, 2009

You are quite a writer, Angela.

Well, after seeing how well-conceived and thought-out this response was, i'm going to have to break out the white flag here and just give up de ghost.

Well done, Miss Liu.



A Winner is You.

Idolores Jul 2, 2009

The only thing going through my mind when reading Angie's write up there was that bit from the MC Hammer "Can't Touch This" song where he goes "Sound the bell, school's in, sucka!". :3

Related Albums

Tags

Board footer

Forums powered by FluxBB