Hmm something's a little unusual here.

Oh yeah, new site!

So after more hours spent than I'd even want to know, the renovated Soundtrack Central I've occasionally hinted at is here.

New look

That's the obvious part.  I felt the review pages needed a new look after all this time of inactivity to make it clear that the site's back.  I know many of you don't see the need for a redesign in the forums but I wanted to keep them consistent with the rest of the site.

New content

It probably just looks like a different design but I've completely changed the whole backbone of the site.  Without going into details, basically the site should now be much easier to maintain.  Which should mean lots of updates!

I've finally posted some new reviews and samples of my own, but the big news is the CD info and review submission system is back and open for business.  I will take a break this week from updating the site (it's been a long couple months), but starting next weekend I will begin publishing submissions.  So if any of you have been itching  to talk up or trash a certain album, get those typing fingers ready

Over the past few years many of you have posted reviews of sorts here in the forums, so if any of you would like to touch those up and submit them please feel free!

New features

There are a few other small but handy features about.  CDs, artists, and series are all properly linked together now so you can quite easily hop from one related CD to another all afternoon if you like.  Reviewer and forum member profiles have been also linked together so you can check out a person's forum activity and reviews together.

Speaking of which, I've re-implemented a rating system.  (Yes, the site had ratings way back in the day.)  I think they're a handy way to see what a reviewer's general music tastes are and what CDs he or she likes most.  But they are optional when submitting reviews for those of you that are against them.

New server

Ideally this should result in better performance in the long run, but in the short term there may be some growing pains.    You'll be required to re-login once to the new forums but after that, logging in *should* work as normal.If you experience any problems accessing the site please let me know!

I guess those are the major changes.  I've had my head in this stuff for so long it's all become a bit of a blur, so if there are some obvious quirks I've missed along the way please chime in.  And I'd love to hear everybody's thoughts on the new site in general.

Thanks to everybody for hanging out here for all this time!  Here's to ten more years of STC

Everything looks fantastic to me.  I'm very impressed--it's all so crisp, clean, orderly, and pretty.  Well played, STC crew!

Looks pretty good to me.  The only thing I'd change is that Recent Posts / Newest Topics bar on the left there.  Having that displayed at the main forums page (http://www.soundtrackcentral.com/forums/index.php) is fine I guess but it shouldn't show up anywhere else.  Even now it's sitting over there as I type this reply, eating up precious space.  Ideally if it has to be part of the site, at least make an option for users to be able to turn it off as it's very obtrusive to me.  Also, some of the fonts look bigger than they were before.  It could just be my eyes playing tricks on me or maybe due to that left nav bar squeezing everything into a smaller space?  Don't know but if the fonts are bigger, I'd say a half or even one whole point size decrease would be ideal.

Other than that thought, looks awesome, good job Adam.

-Mike

Well, I have to admit, there are probably some people here, including me, who don't take kindly to change, and who have not been too fond of previous changes, but I concede, Adam, all-round great job this time!

Let me be the first to express my dissatisfaction with the new design.  I do not want to downplay the hardwork and time you put into redesigning the site, but the new layout is busy and the general layout is not fluid at all.  I'm not really one for change -- if it's not broken, don't fix it, but the old site was due for a rehaul and I think you mentioned some things were broken on the backend.

Let me preface this with the fact that I have absolutely no artistic or design skills whatsoever but I can try and give some pointers on why I think it doesn't look good.

1.) The left hand forum pane for Recent and Newest Topics.  We've had those on the right hand side of the page for the last 11 years, to have it on the left hand side just looks awkward.
2.) Pretty sure everything is the same font, making readability really really bad.  Headers need to stand out as headers, menu items and links need to stand out as links, etc. 
3.) The blue and white scheme of the site could work a lot better if it was in a different palette or something.  Bright blue on bright white on light blue on black text is too bleh.  Try pastel colors?  Offshades I guess?

I really wish it hadn't changed, not a big fan of the new one at all.  Just my .02c.

Ditto.

Indeed, a superb job, Adam.  I like the new main page very much; uniform, clean looking.  The right-hand column with the Forums: News and Forums: Hot Topics should make for an approachable means for casual or newcomers to make a quick jump into the forums.  And you'll be taking new reviews?  I'll definitely be there soon enough. (Nice write-up on the Studio Ghibli Symphonic Collection by the way!)  It's also cool to now have access to a person's reviews under their Profile page.

As for the forums themselves, I do agree with Mike.  I'm a little lukewarm on the left-handed Recent Posts / Newest Topics column; I can understand uniformity between the main page and the forums, but it does eat up valuable real estate when reading or writing.  I would think that most of the regulars here peruse each of the individual forum boards daily anyway, making having a condensed version of it somewhat superfluous.  (That, and it's not like forum topics move at such a breakneck pace that it'll get pushed down so quickly.)  If it has to stay, any chance of moving it the right side, as jb suggests? 

I've never minded the blue/white color scheme.  It's always been easy for me to look at, and the header that showcases user info in the topic threads is quite trés sleek.   The font size does seem larger, yes - distractingly so, especially when coupled with the new column on the left.  Again I concur with Mike; any chance of a point decrease?

All told, it's great to finally see such an extensive work-in-progress come to fruition.  Thanks for all your hard work, Adam!  Always appreciated.

I'll chime in too. At first, when I logged in and everything changed (I was clinging to the old format all this time), it was a bit jarring. Spend a few minutes with it, I think I could be comfortable here, with a few changes others have already echoed.

The biggest thing is that the text is all too big--it looks like 12 point, and it bloats the posts and pages too much.

The other is the left side bar. As I recall, the old forums' right side bar had the forum navigation menu and the review site navigation menu, which is what the top bar has now. So, I would think the side bar would go away completely, but instead we have a new side bar showing recent posts and new topics. That's alright in theory, but it being on the left is too jarring a change. It's also simply too large for what's supposed to be a supplemental bar--it's about 25% of the total page. With the other 75% being 12 point threads, reading threads is very unattractive and distracting.

Personally, I would make the side bar optional if not removed. The side bar and "new posts" button on the top button make each other redundant, and "new posts" has the handy new post indicator that the side bar does not--and is also usable when the user wants it, not omnipresent like the side bar.

The contrast between robin's egg blue and MSPaint blue is a bit rough to me, but that's something I'd be willing to adapt to if the changes above could take place.

However, I am looking forward to re-exploring the review site with its fresh coat of paint. I think the new forum design could be good if some very necessary tweaks are made. I appreciate the effort that's gone into it!

WOW o_O
A left menu.. on STC??!!
Also, the font is gigantic now, why!
I guess it's just a matter of getting used to it but man what a shock hehe ^^
See you,

Alcahest

the font is indeed gigantic. too much scrolling to do

also i get kicked out after a post like before sometimes and need to re-log constantly.

I don't have a problem with anything. Just because something was done one way for 11 years doesn't mean doing in another way now is wrong. If I had the option of turning off the Recent Posts / Newest Topics pane, I would. Or as Miker said, just have it for the main forums page.

The only suggestion I'll make is for a "breadcrumb trail" at the bottom, since it's natural to want to click over to another section when you're done reading the post. Above the topic ("The new Soundtrack Central," for example), it currently shows "Open Topic." It'd be neat if it said: "Forums :: Other Discussion :: Open Topic" or some such - with each section clickable. It'll keep users from having to scroll up to change forum sections.

Good work!

Please unify the different kinds of look for links, at the moment there are black links, blue links, black links with underscore and possibly more all mixed. Also it's bad form to use the text colour (here black) for links while also removing the underscore, making links undistinguishable as such within texts without hovering them. A visible indicator for links while using the keyboard is also still missing.

Other than that (and still using a little too many different font sizes) the new site is OK (and I especially appreciate the lightweight, tablefree code).

Well, I'll be bollocksed. STC had a rating system way back when? This must've been before my time. :S

My thoughts entirely. To be honest it should be possible to offer both the new and old layout like before unless the backend code is so mired into the overall layout, which it shouldn't be.

At one point I tried to modify your style sheets locally to try and see if I could present an alternative style, but dear god what a mess.

holy crap,, smaller font please... im gonna have a blister on my index finger from the scroller wheel on my mouse.

A lot of things don't work for me at the moment and I'm inclined to agree with most of the criticisms so far. However, I do think with some fixing with the design and layout that the site will be fine.

I don't mean to hate...but um...

I don't like this *at all*

Give me back the old STC please.

It does look odd to me but given time, I think I can get used to it.

Thanks for the comments so far.  In regard to a couple points...

Font size

The font size for post text, review text, and any other main body text in the site is set to 100% - the browser default - which technically should be a size that the individual user is comfortable with.  I would encourage everyone to take a quick peak at your browser font settings and check that it's not at some ridiculously large size like 16 point.

I realize not everybody sets their browser's default but that is the ideal solution.  The only other alternatives are setting a mandatory size that most users can't adjust even if they want to, or setting a smaller base font that will actually be too small for people that have set their browsers properly.

I am inclined to go the standards route and leave the font settings as they are so that people can adjust them individually as they should, but if it continues to be an issue I can create an alternate style sheet with a smaller font for the forums at least.

The side bar

I think the issue with it being on the left is more a matter of habit than even preference and will be fine after a couple weeks.  Obviously I'm biased but I'm completely used to it after having tested it for a while.

I also think removing the side bar altogether is a bad idea as the post text will scroll all the way across the screen which is too wide in 1024+ resolution monitors.

Site consistency aside I can shrink the sidebar width for forum pages if the consensus is it takes up too much space.

The colors

Okay so yeah, I suck with color.  Just coming up with a passable color scheme took me forever.  The background color, as well as header colors and sidebar link colors, may well undergo some changes if I can come up with some improvements.

Other comments

Having "breadcrumb trail" links at the bottom (Forums > Current Forum > Current Topic) is not a bad idea and although it would probably involve moving the "Post reply" link around I will look into it.

True enough about indicator-less links not being good.  I think it's pretty obvious despite that which ones are links but I will work on improving it.  The point about needing a visible indicator for links while using the keyboard is certainly valid.

I'd like to make it clear that the old layout is never coming back, ever.  Keep the specific suggestions coming and I will do what I can to modify the new design to suit everyone's liking but the old design is as of yesterday officially history.  All things must change, even ancient game soundtrack sites.

Everyone's a critic...
Well, I'm thankful for what we have I don't really see how this is particularly any better than what we previously had, but I don't see how it's any worse. I do like the ability to just click on CDs or artists, that's cool. Or Submit CD, that's cool too, and I hope people take advantage of it.

Suggestion: how about a Submit Game review? That would be awesome!

Thanks for taking care of this site and everything, I think most people don't realize how much work it is nor do you get the thanks you deserve. So, thanks!

cheers,

-avatar!

Font size solution for Firefox users: No Squint

It will allow you to set per-website font sizes, so you can adjust the STC fonts without compromising the look of every other website you visit as modifying Firefox's Options-->Content-->Font Size would. I still feel that the layout makes threads look more like websites than forum, but this is one step toward remedying that. If anyone has a more efficient solution, I'm all ears.

I still feel the left side bar is redundant, and not out of a matter of habit. The old right-hand side bar is at the top now, and the left side bar offers things I really don't want. I haven't seen any other forum that has this list of recent posts and if they do, I think it's not necessary beyond the home page. I would rather have forum posted centered and do away with side bars altogether. Like I said before, "New posts" at the top does the same thing already, and better, and only when I want it to.

That may be, but for many of us this has been home for a long time, up to a decade or more, and its simplicity was a big draw. I think we have a right to be critics of a drastic change for which we've had little input.

Again, Adam, I appreciate your efforts and your aims, but for a forum that has long embraced the value of simplistic, no-thrills, user-friendly interface, I'm very sad to hear the old style isn't coming back. The old style made it one of my most favorite forums to read, and the jarring changes have now made it one of the least user-friendly forum experiences. While the old coding might have been messy, the forums were aesthetically perfect, and the old "if it ain't broke..." adage holds true.

Completely agree.  The fonts are huge, the colors are blindingly bright, and all the different "sections" of the page just seem to blend together.  The old design was just fine, so why exactly did we get this downgrade?

Where in IE do I find an option to stop the text being utterly huge?

And is anyone else having to log in twice each time?

Edit: Oh, got the text option. I had it set to 'Medium'. Adam, I can't help thinking you've a text issue going on because I had to set it to 'smaller' to get it to look okay but then that made other sites go very small. It's like your medium is everyone elses large.

Odd. I haven't had any problems with the font size at all... Then again, I'm using Firefox.

Overall Adam, I like the changes you've done.  I especially like the new look of the reviews and the uniformity throughout.  Well done!

-Eric Steffens

Actually, a font-size percentage doesn't specify an absolute font size. It specifies a font size relative to the font size of the parent HTML element. If you just create a simple HTML document like this, it will show smaller text:

<html><body>
	<p style="font-size:100%">The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dogs.</p>
</body></html>

Also, apparently the e-mail function is still not working...

Well, same here using Konqueror, Firefox and IE6 (under Wine). I guess the font size is fine for me since I use a high screen resolution on a rather small screen.

I have no problems with the new site design whatsoever.  I prefer having the new posts button, that way i don't have to page through each separate page of subforum.  As for color, it's fine by me.  I think you all need to realize while yes you come here and post and what not ultimately, it's not "your" site, it's Adam's.

Ah, that'd do nicely.  Thanks much!

I'll chime in with jb & Ramza.  The old forums were pleasing on the eyes and kind of refreshing.  This...  this just isn't nice at all.  (I know, complaining about something free)

I showed you that ALA article before:
http://www.alistapart.com/articles/howtosizetextincss/
Read the section on Iteration 6.  That is a very good way with CSS to set the site's default font sizes while allowing the user to change it if they wish.  For good or bad, the default font size for Firefox, IE6, IE7, and Opera is 16 points.

Many people are not aware of changing the browser's default font size, so it is better to set the site's font size down than to ask people to change it in the browser settings.  So, you should set the site's default font size to 10-12 points, and let the user change it if they know how.

This topic has been dealt with by web developers and coders for years, and there is a wealth of information on the internet on this topic, such as the link I gave you. 

--------------------------------

There is also a slight glitch with the forum login process.  When I log into the forum from a browser that had the old site cached, the first log in attempt does not actually log me in.  The forum says you logged in, but when you get to the next page, it says "not logged in."

EDIT: It looks like BAMAToNE is having the same problem as I was having concerning the login process.

Here's some more "technical" feedback: Each time I've had to log in to the new forums, I've had to log in twice. The first time I logged in, it told it was successful but then redirected to the index still logged out. (Reload still had me logged out.) Once I logged in a second time, it was fine. Maybe it had something to do with me using Opera.

Edit: As far as fonts go, btw, if you're using Opera all you have to do is hit the minus sign on the keyboard numberpad to zoom out. Hitting + zooma in and * returns zoom to default. *realizes I'm probably the only one using Opera...*

Nope, that happened to me on Firefox both on my home Mac and my work XP machine.

You can do that on Firefox, but while the text on the site looks better in a smaller font, when you click to reply or quote a post the letters in the field are really tiny.

I think the reason for the login problem is that the old address (altpop.com/stc/) redirects to www.soundtrackcentral.com, and after loging in you are redirected to soundtrackcentral.com. The cookie created on the first time isn't recognized.