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Dartannian Jun 22, 2012 (edited Jun 22, 2012)

STC drinking game: Anytime someone bitches about religion, take a shot...your choice of booze.

Jodo Kast Jun 23, 2012

Dartannian wrote:

People of your mind only seemed to be offended by Christians. Never Buddhists, Hindis, or Muslims...even though the Muslims are always trying to BOMB US. Why is that? I'm just trying to understand.

I don't have the exact statistics, but the percentage of Muslims that try to bomb us is very small. I don't personally know any Muslims, and I also don't know where any of their places of worship are. The same is true for Buddhists and Hindus (Hindi is a language). It's possible I have met Hindus, since there are a lot of people from India in my city, but my conversations with them don't go very far because we only vaguely understand one another.

When I mention a "church", I am referring to a building that houses people which worship God. I don't know anything about "churches" for Buddhists, Muslims and Hindus other than what I have seen depicted in movies.

I suppose that if I spoke Arabic and lived in the Middle East, then I would be offended by Muslims and not Christians.

Boco Jun 23, 2012

Jodo Kast wrote:
Razakin wrote:

And what luxuries do religious people get? A church? Come on Jodo.

For free, religious people can choose amongst hundreds, thousands of buildings in which they may engage in their religious activities.

Churches are paid for by the people who attend them. You do realize this, yes? If you want a science center within walking distance of your house, then by all means build one at your own expense. Nothing is stopping you. Churches don't receive money from the government to facilitate their construction or maintenance. Churches aren't "free" and they really have nothing to do with US policy. I honestly have no idea where you're getting these absurd notions.

The difference between the stereotypical church-goer and you is that the church-goer puts his money where his mouth is. Period.

Jodo Kast Jun 24, 2012

Boco wrote:

Churches are paid for by the people who attend them. You do realize this, yes?

Not all people that attend them. I was forced to attend church between ages 12-17 and I never paid for anything. The last service I went to was last summer, simply because my parents asked, and I didn't pay anything. I could easily attend church for the rest of my life for free. This is why I say that religious people have access to luxuries, free of charge. Religious people can enter nice, air-conditioned buildings and study their religious stuff FOR FREE.

Amazingu Jun 24, 2012

Jodo Kast wrote:

Religious people can enter nice, air-conditioned buildings and study their religious stuff FOR FREE.

I don't know about the US, but libraries are free and air-conditioned as well around where I live.

Dartannian Jun 24, 2012 (edited Jun 24, 2012)

Double post by axxident. Go figure.

Axxident is the name of a new toothpaste I'm going to manufacture and distribute.

Dartannian Jun 24, 2012 (edited Jun 24, 2012)

Jodo Kast wrote:
Dartannian wrote:

People of your mind only seemed to be offended by Christians. Never Buddhists, Hindis, or Muslims...even though the Muslims are always trying to BOMB US. Why is that? I'm just trying to understand.

I don't have the exact statistics, but the percentage of Muslims that try to bomb us is very small.

Geez, what did you do, copy my post immediately after I posted it, before I deleted it? Obsessive, much?

And LIKE I ALREADY SAID, I only stated that as mocking point. NOT because I believe that ALL Muslims/Arabs hate the U.S.

Jodo Kast wrote:

I don't personally know any Muslims, and I also don't know where any of their places of worship are. The same is true for Buddhists and Hindus (Hindi is a language). It's possible I have met Hindus, since there are a lot of people from India in my city, but my conversations with them don't go very far because we only vaguely understand one another.

Hindus don't actually have formal places of worship, from what I understand; they have private shrines in their homes that they pray at.

Jodo Kast wrote:

I suppose that if I spoke Arabic and lived in the Middle East, then I would be offended by Muslims and not Christians.

LoL, which is the answer to what my next question was going to be.

I swear, all I hear these days is "RELIGION IS TEH SUXXORZ!!1112!#!#!#13132" and "OMG, I WISH I WAS HAVING SEX RIGHT NOW!!!11@#@!#" RPG NPCs have more pertinent things to say, than most people in real life. hmm

Boco Jun 25, 2012

Jodo Kast wrote:

Not all people that attend them. I was forced to attend church between ages 12-17 and I never paid for anything. The last service I went to was last summer, simply because my parents asked, and I didn't pay anything. I could easily attend church for the rest of my life for free. This is why I say that religious people have access to luxuries, free of charge. Religious people can enter nice, air-conditioned buildings and study their religious stuff FOR FREE.

It's true that no one is forced to pay a fee when they enter a church, but churches still cost money to operate and someone has to pay for it. The fact that you were "forced" to attend church at no cost to you wasn't what made it free. It was free because someone believed religion was worth teaching you and paid to make that possible. Church attendees give money every week and church volunteers give time every week; that is what makes church possible.

Since that's the point that I was trying to make in my previous post, let me say it again: church is a service that certain people choose to offer at their own expense. If your free science centers are important to you, then start building. Are you familiar with Kickstarter? Nothing is stopping you from gathering like-minded individuals and starting a non-profit science and learning establishment. Replace "science and learning" with "religious" and you've got your typical church. Period. It's as simple as that. There's no magic, no government assistance, no shadowy organization, no anti-science conspiracy. It's just a group of like-minded people who truly believe that religion is extremely important and so they give their money, time and energy to make it available for "free." I'm not saying that's a beneficial thing; I'm saying that it's both logical and fair.

And since you ignored it the first time, I'm going to say it yet again: the reason your free science centers don't exist is because people like you aren't willing to put your money where your mouth is. Instead of complaining about churches, start offering a comparable service at your own expense. Religion is important to people, so they sacrifice for it. You claim that science is equally important, then you should be willing to make equal sacrifices.

Jodo Kast Jun 25, 2012

Dartannian wrote:

Geez, what did you do, copy my post immediately after I posted it, before I deleted it? Obsessive, much?

Um, esteemed sir, if you could go check, you will see that your post is still there.

Jodo Kast Jun 25, 2012

Boco wrote:

And since you ignored it the first time, I'm going to say it yet again: the reason your free science centers don't exist is because people like you aren't willing to put your money where your mouth is. Instead of complaining about churches, start offering a comparable service at your own expense. Religion is important to people, so they sacrifice for it. You claim that science is equally important, then you should be willing to make equal sacrifices.

You expect too much too fast. I just recently started thinking about the high density of churches. This isn't an ongoing thing in my life. The speech by Lawrence Krauss got me fired up and I opened my eyes for second, made a post here, and you expect me to change the world.

James O Jun 25, 2012

Churches also enjoy many tax breaks (I believe they don't pay any and yet they still receive public funding) and gov't support whereas i'm sure any "scientific centre" wouldn't.  I suppose a local museum or planetarium could be your "science centre" for the time being.  I would think the reason more churches exist is just because organized religion has been around longer than "organized" science.

Boco Jun 25, 2012 (edited Jun 25, 2012)

James O wrote:

Churches also enjoy many tax breaks (I believe they don't pay any and yet they still receive public funding) and gov't support whereas i'm sure any "scientific centre" wouldn't.

That is incorrect. Non-profit organizations (either religious or secular) that meet certain legal requirements are allowed to be tax exempt. Many churches (but not all) meet those requirements. Some tax exempt churches even choose to pay taxes simply because they believe it's the right thing to do. I'm not personally aware of any churches that receive public funding. I'm ignoring obvious public services as those are provided to all legal entities in the USA: private citizens, businesses, non-profits, etc. This concept that churches receive special tax or legal treatment of some kind has absolutely no merit as best I can tell. That said, I admit that there are a lot of churches and maybe there are exceptions. I would appreciate specific examples though.

EDIT: I did a little research and churches DO receive some public funding. It isn't funding for churches or religion specifically though. It's funding for certain public services offered by churches. I think that's an important distinction given the discussion at hand. I admit that it does create an unfair playing field for groups that offer those services though.
http://usliberals.about.com/od/faithinp … Faith2.htm

Jodo Kast wrote:

You expect too much too fast. I just recently started thinking about the high density of churches. This isn't an ongoing thing in my life. The speech by Lawrence Krauss got me fired up and I opened my eyes for second, made a post here, and you expect me to change the world.

No, you expect too much too fast. Please take a moment to review exactly what you have already stated:

Jodo Kast wrote:

This is what I thought of: There are hundreds, possibly thousands of churches in my city and surrounding area. But there is only one science center. Why not make a law requiring that churches and science centers be constructed in a 1:1 ratio?

The catalyst for my something idea came from this speech: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ImvlS8PLIo

Also, I think I should be able to go to a building (for free) and learn about and study particle physics. Religious people get considerable luxuries, so why not rational people? Answer: religious people are in charge.

For every church I see, there should be a science center right next to it. The United States should be a science oriented country.

You are expecting the government to pass a law that forces tax payers to build unneeded and unwanted science centers. How is that reasonable? How is that not "expecting too much too fast?" Instead of complaining about the overabundance of churches and expecting other people to do something unrealistic about it, maybe you should actually do something realistic about it. There are small churches that meet regularly in people's homes. We're talking 5-10 attendees and one pastor (who works for free). What's so hard about that, Jodo? Why won't college professors donate one day a week to educating people for free from their own homes? The problem isn't religious people, the number of churches, the law, or even the lack of science centers. The problem is your mindset. You aren't willing to make the sacrifices required to make your dream a reality. In fact, you aren't willing to do ANYTHING to make your dream a reality.

For the record, I have very mixed feelings about religion. However, religious people in general have worked very hard for the luxuries that they enjoy and, yes, I do expect non-religious people to work just as hard for those same luxuries. That's more than perfectly reasonable. The church that I attended while growing up started off as one of those home churches I mentioned. I think there were about 15 people who met at the pastor's house each week. As the number of attendees grew, they began renting a school gym, then they built a small church, and eventually a large church. That church averages 1,000 people a week now (nearly 30 years later). How did they do that? Money and hard work. THEIR money and hard work. That's how churches are built. You're envious of the result, but completely ignorant of the cost.

Jodo Kast Jun 26, 2012

Boco wrote:

How did they do that? Money and hard work. THEIR money and hard work. That's how churches are built. You're envious of the result, but completely ignorant of the cost.

Don't you think those people that built churches should've funneled money into science instead? I am astonished by people that use devices made by science and still think the Bible is correct. It blows me away every second of every day. The church I attended from ages 12-17 recently made an addition. It is huge; bigger than my old high school. The whole time I was walking around the structure, thinking that the money could've gone towards a particle accelerator.

   People that attend church are not stupid, so why do they do it? Why do they say that scientists are wrong, yet use cellphones and computers? I honestly cannot figure it out. I still think that if you attend church and believe in God, then you should not be using cellphones or computers, or even air-conditioning. You can't cut off the hand that feeds you, but that's precisely what religious people do.

   You say that people should put their money where their mouth is; I say they should behave according to their beliefs. If you believe in prayer, fine. Then act like it. Stop going to your job. Just pray for money. If your son is sick, don't send him to the hospital. Pray for him. Religious people violate their own beliefs on a regular basis, and criticize anyone that criticizes their violations. They are the weirdest, strangest people in all of history. How do you think I feel, trying to rationalize their behavior? It can't be done. I feel like I am surrounded by crazy people.

Smeg Jun 26, 2012

Razakin wrote:

Jodo, I pray that you come to your senses someday. tongue

That would not be very entertaining.

Boco Jun 28, 2012

Well, at least I kind of understand where you're coming from, Jodo. I still disagree of course, but I feel I understand why you're so frustrated. I guess I just have a radically different perspective. Religion and science coexist quite nicely in my mind.

TerraEpon Jun 29, 2012

Dartannian wrote:

Anybody see any really hot chicks cosplaying lately?

Does wearing devil horns and fishnets count?

Dartannian Jun 29, 2012

TerraEpon wrote:
Dartannian wrote:

Anybody see any really hot chicks cosplaying lately?

Does wearing devil horns and fishnets count?

Depends if they were trying to imitate a particular character, or if that's just their generic personal style.

longhairmike Jun 30, 2012

yay,, i actually recorded a song i wrote (before i woke up the next day and totally forgot it)

http://youtu.be/bXOahzTRkbk?hd=1

i was thinking secret of mana as you could tell. a bit of the forest theme feel here (what the forest taught me).
yes, there are some mistakes,, i'm still working out the bugs.
I just figured i'd better get it recorded before i wake up the next day and forgot it (that ALWAYS happens and i want to kick myself)
and then i got a bit sidetracked mid-way thru, and you can tell why i never bothered to join a band,, i get really bad 'guitar face' when i get sucked into it...

Jodo Kast Jul 1, 2012

Razakin wrote:

Jodo, I pray that you come to your senses someday. tongue

Nice subtle humor. I like it. smile

Jodo Kast Jul 1, 2012

Amazingu wrote:

Jodo, for someone who is really smart, you are amazingly stupid.

You can't have it both ways. Either I'm smart or stupid. Try again. smile

Zane Jul 17, 2012

I just realized why I like the Dirge of Cerberus main motif so much... it sounds like a slowed down version of the X-Files main theme! I think it's even in the same key (in "Flicker", at least).

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