For those of you who have played both of the recent Tomb Raider games, which did you prefer and why?

I just finished up my third playthrough of Legend the other day (on the PS2 this time so I could enjoy the game during the daytime), and I loved it just as much as I did the first two times. The variety in the levels combined with some more traditional locales (Ghana is my favorite) really makes for an interesting game that keeps things moving. The puzzles in the game are fairly "classic" TR stuff without being cumbersome or too derivative. Unfortunately, things move a little too quick, as the game can easily be beaten within 9 hours or so the first time through. The time trials are not too difficult, but are challenging enough so that you won't be frustrated trying to complete them. They give the game more replayability and depth, and some of the extra costumes are great. I enjoyed running through some of the levels again as different characters or with a different Lara to look at.

After mastering TRL, I decided to go back and play through Anniversary again, but the game doesn't have the same luster that it did before my recent TRL playthrough. I found the game to have some collision issues, especially when jumping, and a more wonky camera than TRL, along with many more frustrating moments and unfair deaths. There are times (especially in the Colliseum level) where you  have to line up jumps *and* the camera almost perfectly so that you can make the leap without the camera moving and thereby changing your jump angle and making you either fall to your death or to a lower point in the level. Sometimes when backtracking you'll pass a checkpoint that will push you farther back in your progress; each checkpoint should have only registered once. It sucks to fall down and cross a checkpoint that makes you repeat 5-10 minutes of platforming if you die. The levels are very well designed though, and it captures that isolation that the original TR was full of along with plenty of "A ha!" moments. If this game wasn't as frustrating as it is, or if the camera and controls were up to TRL's level, I would enjoy it just as much as TRL (then again, it wouldn't have the essence of the original TR without some frustration). As is, I'll say that it's an above average adventure game and a faithful recreation of the original PSX title that gets less appealing the more that you play it, but I would recommend Legend over Anniversary because of the smoother experience.

I played both TR1 and TRL quite recently. I had played through Legend on the PSP and played it again on the 360 and really enjoyed it.

I also enjoyed TR Anniversary. But it in no way lived up to my expectation based on the original TR1 or even Legend.

TR1 was obviously foremost in my mind as TRA is a remake. TRA realised some of the classic locations with a quality that could only have been imagined back when it looked like it was made of Lego. Some areas just look lovely. And some of the new puzzles were great too. There were a couple of locations I felt were really improved. But they were the exception. For the most part, the game was an abridged version of the original, losing much of what made many of the levels interesting and killing some sections stone dead.

The original Tomb Raider has a great balance in gameplay. It has loads of precision platform jumping of course, but adds to that a real challenge in route planning. It requires thought. It also has its (fairly basic) block puzzles, combat and, most of all, a real sense of exploration.

TRA lost this balance. Most of TRA consists of ledge hanging. Hang, shimmy, leap. The routes are blindingly obvious as they have just slapped on legdes and poles over the scenery (more on that in a mo) and there is no problem with the execution except where the camera shifts and Lara decides she's going somewhere else. The challenge is not in the doing, but in battling the programming. Much of the platform jumping is gone of course, because modern Lara is too imprecise and it would be frustrating as hell. That's the trade off for making her control smoothly I guess but I can't help feeling that lack of control is a huge step backwards. So it's mostly ledge shimmy and the odd pole swing.

Some bits that really needed improving from the original game (boss fights for example) weren't. QTEs are total pox and need to be banned. They are no substitute for actual gameplay.

I could go on with TR1 vs TRA but, overall, I didn't feel TRA lived up to the original. The level design was far superior in the original and had a balance and impact that TRA just has't got.

So, to get back to the original question, how did I feel TRA stacked up against Legend? Well, I obviously had the same lack of precision in Legend. But there was a massive difference. Legend was designed from scratch to work with the new control system. Every location worked hand in hand with what she could do. Importantly, every location felt natural. Almost all of the places you could jump, the hand holds, ledges, poles etc felt like they were totally part of the environment. TRA, on the other hand, felt like they designed the location, then worried about how you get around so had to place ledges and poles everywhere. They look like a fake man-made assault course, not ancient tombs. Legend never had this problem. Nor did the original TR, in all it's low-res blocky glory.

With that, the balance in Legend was much better. Again, that's probably due to the game being designed from scratch. Even though I wasn't a fan of all the locations (I'm not into the Japan building stuff - I prefer the actual tomb stuff), the game was much more sure of what it was. It felt like a complete game.

TRA also has some really poor elements like the linking run right run left corridors that completely take you out of the experience. Neither TR1 or Legend had these in any noticable way. And, yes, for whatever reason, the camera doesn't punish you in Legend in the way it does in TRA. The camera is the most dangerous enemy in the whole of TRA.

My only real gripe with Legend (aside from the guys not shutting up) was that there didn't seem to be a real sense of progression within the game as a whole. The levels weren't really any more difficult that the previous and the story didn't seem to be building much either so, when I got to the end, I was pretty surprised. I was waiting for a really difficult last level and never got one. But TRA, like the original (but in a lighter, abridged way), did get harder, did get a little more impressive each level and did seem to build. Shame they took out some of the more difficult treks but there was still definite progression.

Overall, I think Legend is a better gaming experience and the level design is much better. I think if TRA didn't have the nostalgia factor attached, it may have been received with more negativity than it did. I feel it's a step backwards from Legend without gaining a hell of a lot from its source game other than a few pretty locations.

Awesome post, Jay. I agree with pretty much all of what you said. One thing that stuck out that I really didn't think about too much when I posted was the corridors that connect rooms and levels in TR:A. They do pull you out of the experience, but I think they are there to mask load times. I'd rather have a few seconds of loading after the level results window pops up than have to trek through the corridors to get to the next part.

And, yeah... those dudes need to shut the hell up on that communication system in Legend, haha. Sometimes the conversations are fine, but you hardly ever feel truly isolated, except for a segment of the Ghana level.

I hope there's another TR in the works... not a remake, but another Legend-ish type of game.

I'm reviving this tiny little thread based on the fact that I started playing the original Tomb Raider the other night. It occurred to me that I have never actually completed this game from start to finish on my own, so I set out to do just that. Yeah, it's blocky and Lara can be a little obtuse to control, but the sense of isolation and exploration is incredible. After playing just five levels it makes TR Anniversary seem like a tutorial. The entire game. I love how each area's levels are connected, which gives the game a sense of real cohesion, and I am enjoying the mild punishment that I've been dealt for missing a jump or for pressing the wrong button and accidentally rolling off of the top of the level in St. Francis' Folly and plummeting to Lara's death.

So, yeah. I still love Legend, but going back to it the game is just so damn easy. And I suspect that the upcoming TR Underworld will be a piece of cake as well, but seeing as how it's a continuation of Legend I'm assuming that it will share similar positive qualities as its predecessor. But what do I really want? Another Tomb Raider in the vein of the first one, a la Mega Man 9. None of this TR2/3/C/LR bullshit. Just put Lara back in some caves and tombs with some guns and cog puzzles and I will be a happy man.

Actually, I am a happy man, since I am playing the first TR again. It's a true classic and still holds up (for me) after all these years.

I can't wait for Underworld.  The tiger media still looks kinda silly, and I'm hoping the supposedly extensive swimming parts will be handled okay.

Dude, you know I couldn't agree more... I just got my BB copy in the mail and it's the next thing I plan to play after SotN (just got to the second half of the game.) I could pass on everything else Tomb Raider: I'll admit that Anniversary did some nice things but many of the parts that worked in the remake worked because they worked before. Never did play Legend though, I might enjoy it more since it doesn't fiddle around with the past thus being free of such expectations.

I agree, not only is the original TR a classic, and still fun to play, but I might add it still has awesome music
It's also nice to find a game that is actually challenging... as for in the same vein as MM9, well I personally would LOVE to see some "new" Super Mario Bros games (you know, like SMB3, or SMW)!

cheers,

-avatar!

Yeah, the music is just gorgeous and goes beautifully with the lonely feel of exploring. I used to just pop the game disc into my discman years ago while I worked. I loved it.

grumble grumble...
Way to go Zane... now, because of you, I want to go back and play the original Tomb Raider

The original Tomb Raider holds up nicely as a memorable experience.  It has a Metroid-ish quality to it that I like (you feel a sense of accomplishment from navigating ledges and reaching items), and as has been mentioned in this thread, there's definitely some challenge there.  Then of course there's the music.  The title theme is quite beautiful and its haunting quality translates to the shorter event tracks that make up the rest of the score.  Despite appearances, TR is a special game that has much more going for it than Lara's bust.  I had played it again only one or two years ago and was surprised by how it possessed that "magic" which only great games possess.  Despite the oft-maligned clunky controls, TR just draws you in more than most other 3D platformer/adventure games.

I don't have TR:A, but I think I might try Legend, which I've had sitting around for quite a few months now.

Well the thing about the clunky controls (I may have mentioned this early in this very thread) is that they work. Yes, they are clunky. But they are precise and work to a very simple system so that, when something bad happens, you know it was you and not the controls. It also had some nice features like the 180 flip.

The later controls feel smooth and responsive but the trade-off is that they are really loose, imprecise and you're prone to falling victim to a changing camera angle or the game taking a guess at what you intended to do and getting it wrong. It feels much nicer initially but is ultimately frustrating.

Totally. It takes patience and some planning to get up that high ledge with the health pack, so it's almost like the fact that you made it there is more reward than the actual pickup. This happened to me in Palace Midas the other night - I spent two hours trying to get through the level, but I could only find two of the three metal bars. Then I went through the third door in the room where the five switches are used to open/close doors and was way up high on top of the level. I thought to myself, I have to be up here for a reason. Then I found this little alcove that I could jump and grapple to. Lo and behold, that brought me to a platform that brought me into a cave that brought me all the way through the level and on top of a building where the third bar (and a save point) were waiting. I was so damn excited when I made it up there!

Yeah, even though the music tracks are short and there aren't too many of them, the soundtrack is incredible. Has anyone heard Tomb Raider II's music? If so, does it hold up to the first?

That's one of the benefits of the "boxy" layout of the levels and platforming. If you plan your jump correctly, you will succeed. If not, it's your own damn fault - not the camera's or anything like that. That's one thing I find relief in; I know when I line up a jump I will make it whether or not the camera changes while I'm in midair.

I don't think Tomb Raider II's music is as good as the first even though I'm pretty sure it was the done by Nathan McCree as well; it was the last one he worked on. The audio is redbook like the original TR so I can make a dub here and upload it for you to check out though it might take a day or two to get it up.

That would be great, man. I was considering picking up TRII so I could rip the redbook tracks, but it would be cool to hear it first.

Here you go,

TRII Redbook Audio: http://www.sendspace.com/file/uflfwz

If you want a copy of the game to play after you beat the first one I have an extra one; it's a GH hits copy but you could at least see if it be worth tracking down a BB one. I have a BB but like I said I'm not sure if I'm keeping it or not - TRII is an ok sequel but the others after it make it seem more attractive in comparison.

Oh, and if your wondering where track 1 is remember the words of Alucard:

"Track number one contains computer data, so please don't play it. But you probably won't listen to me anyhow, will you?"

There's only 1 place you need to go for Tomb Raider music, people:

http://www.tombraiderchronicles.com/sou … index.html

And yes, the first two still have some of the best music.
Long Live Nathan McCree!

As a matter of fact, I have been going through the same phase of nostalgia recently, after buying TRA.

I abso-friggin-lutely LOVE TRA.

I played Legend only once, and to be honest don't remember much of it, only that it was a decent amount of fun but kinda forgettable.
The thing is that Tomb Raider stopped being Tomb Raider a long time ago and became Wide Open Space Raider for some reason, or Metropolis Raider or Chasing People on a Motorcycle Raider, all of which totally destroyed the atmosphere of the original.

I played TRA and was instantly reminded of the original's fantastic level design and clever puzzles and traps, none of which were present in Legend.
Legend was much more running through open spaces which just isn't as interesting I thought.
I played through TRA 3 times consecutively (normal, hard and Time Trial) and absolutely loved every moment of it.

Yes, there are cheap deaths because of lousy camera angles, bad collision detection and whatnot, but the level design is so superior to any of the newer games that I had a blast playing through anyway.

And I also went back to the original immediately afterward, being slightly prepared for its slowness and outdated graphics, but the levels are still very impressive.

I so wish they'd remake TR2...

I prefer Anniverdary over Legend, I feel that Legend had a few shorcomings that they overcame with Anniversary and made a pretty much perfect game as far as the genre is considered.

I expect Underworld to be awesome.

Hell yeah, man! Thanks for sharing that. Their Legend rip is f---ing incredible!