...And yet "the 'sound' in which he composes" will effect how the outcome sounds. Reading your post, I get the feeling you mean that the compositions can be totally divorced from the genre they're composed in. If you put a composition in a techno or orchestral garment of course they're gonna share a lot of similarities, but I don't think it's right to say that they're basically the same piece of music. They are gonna sound different (and what I meant in my previous post is that Sakimoto usually composes in styles which makes it hard for me to appreciate the compositions). 

(Then there are pieces, like "Impregnable Fortress" from Gradius 5 (one of my favourites by Sakimoto), that just don't translate over genres. That track has a few orchestral and Sakimoto "elements", but can you see it done in Vagrant Story-style?)

Although I dislike most of Sakimoto's work, I actually think he's a very skilled composer. His stuff is usually very thought-out and complex. However, most of the time his soundtracks never get me (either because I just don't like the compositions, or more commonly because the style puts me off).

EDIT: Regarding the Bloody Roar track, I wouldn't say it sounds like Sakimoto's "style" only done in another genre. To me, that track has a lot of qualities that separate it from stuff on for example FFT.

Sakimoto doesn't bother me so much as succumbing to the view that his work somehow has more "integrity" than a lot of other composers, a common view from a lot of his fans (no offense to Megavolt or anyone else I know on a one-to-one basis...I'm talking on a fairly broad level among his followers) With the massive, mass-produced output of Basicscape and the fact that his workload was already fairly intense even before that and none of it ever did much for me (regardless of style...I can honestly say his electronica has the same effect as his orchestral work), that's something that's getting harder and harder to swallow and it's getting to the point of being ridiculous. Sakimoto is a very large reason I don't waste time trying to make myself see what the big deal is about a lot of composers or bands nowadays, just because of the amount of time/money I wasted trying to see what the big deal was. Effectively, my ear is much more prepared for what's out there, but his music has the exact same effect it did 9 years ago. Hamauzu is kind of in the same boat, but I'd say he has about 1/10 the amount of work circulating with his name attached and takes his time between projects, so it's easier to listen to the fapping of a few, core works (Plus, he gives me at least a handful of tracks I like on everything not called Dirge of Cerberus).

As for Mitsuda (another composer I hear the "integrity" card pulled out quite a bit)...I heard Chrono Cross for the first time and I was totally left scratching my head at what the big deal was (and this was after absolutely loving CT and XG). For an RPG soundtrack even today, it's good, it's melodic, it's listenable for the most part, but...what's the big deal? The sound quality was good, but I had heard the streamed audio of the Suikoden 1 OST and wondered why such a big deal was made over it when I started reading the message boards and people's responses to it. I still have the same response from 99% of his output...It's gotten very predictable (or in the case of Xenosaga or Armodyne's military shtick, nauseating).

And I did mention Yamaoka...He's one I gave a fairly honest listen and just didn't do anything for me (with the vocals I've heard from him being the only really offensive stuff), so I never understood the hype over him that took off. One thing I appreciate is his music tends to have a very "raw" sound to it, compared to a lot of VGM. It was very noticable back when I was VGM-only. I was never a fan of his views on the nature of VGM, but such views are non-typical for Japanese composers and fairly common elsewhere (read any 80's music magazine and every hair band makes themselves out to be the cure for cancer). So...let's just say I'd believe him over Stryper or "Condition Critical"-era Quiet Riot. ;p So, I'd still call him overrated, but I've gained respect for him as an artist, even if his music isn't my thing...Yeah, whatever.

I'm saying that you can still recognize their styles (or hallmarks of their music, as JBL said about Sakimoto), regardless of BoFV being more electronic or Sakuraba 'channeling Mitsuda' (to borrow from Chudah's review) in Baiten Kaitos.  I'm not sure of what exact wording I should be using, but because the soundscapes are different, I think that they often serve to leave a different impression on people.  BoFV doesn't quite have that 'FFT sound' that Radiant Silvergun, Vagrant Story, and FFXII have.  Some of the sounds are similar, but on the whole, BoFV has a lot of different sounds.

So while I agree that sound plays a role, I don't think that it should play so prominent a role that one thing would be reduced to crap while another is held highly.  There are many similarities between Sakimoto's compositions in BoFV and his compositions in other games.  Just that BoFV has a more electronic edge and also many unique sounds (doors slamming, creatures roaring, etc).  It's tough to seperate sound from composition since they're so intertwined in terms of the end result, but inferior sound doesn't mean inferior composition at all.  Chrono Cross has gorgeous sound quality.  Far superior to that of Xenogears.  Does that mean that the compositions are superior as well?  Not necessarily, because there are other aspects of the music to consider.

So all I was trying to get across is that I feel like there might be a sound bias sometimes.  BoFV didn't come out of nowhere.  Same goes for Sakimoto's compositions in Legaia DuelSaga.

Do I really have to say 'the following is a generalization based on my experience'?  I still know of people who have heard a lot of VGM and still consider Mitsuda one of their favorites.  The fellow who created this thread just said that he was one of them.  I also still know of people who haven't heard a lot of VGM and feel that Mitsuda's music is more resonant with them that just about any other composer save for Uematsu.

He has haters, but I haven't seen 'a lot'.  I've seen a few.  I know that GoldfishX doesn't think much of him.  I've also run into a couple of folks at Gamingforce who don't think much of him.  However, I always run into people at IGN who think that he's great.  Heck, one of them loves him for Tsugunai and Xenosaga.  The guy hasn't even heard Chrono Cross.

Fair enough.  GoldfishX has no love for orchestrate'n.  Now I know that you don't either.

Your point of view, but when I still see people willing to call Uematsu overrated while Mitsuda often escapes such a label, I don't think things have changed that much.  And many people do in fact still think of Uematsu as a demigod.  I ran into a post not too long ago where someone referred to Uematsu as a 'musical god'.

Also, just because I don't see things the same way that you do doesn't mean that I haven't been around for various developments, as you keep suggesting with the 6 or 7 years ago stuff.  I've actually been around for longer than that.  And I've considered myself a fan of VGM in particular since recording music from Toejam & Earl on tape back in 1992 or something.

You could draw many distinctions/use a different perspective and come up with different conclusions that way.  I think that this topic was working from a 'history of VGM' standpoint as established by the original post.  That's what I went for with my answer.

I'm getting the impression that perhaps you've spent so much time with hardcore VGM fans that you've lost touch with what many other people think.  I'm always having exchanges with people who wish for Uematsu's return after playing FFXII.  People who still find Mitsuda's music to have an emotional and enigmatic quality that makes it great.  People who wouldn't know anything about half of the less popular or less prevalent composers that most folks around here know about.  People who put together top lists of favorite VGM scores that are dominated by Final Fantasy, Halo, Metal Gear Solid, and Kingdom Hearts.  These are people who have not necessarily taken notice of the diversification you speak of.  There are people here whose tastes make mine seem typical and unsurprising.  That might be the norm for us, but the norm for many others is still the kind of stuff that is played at Video Games Live.

Edit: None taken, GoldfishX.  I think we know each other's views well enough anyways.  I'll admit that I may have gone too far with my comment about Sakimoto being too sophisticated for people, heh heh.  I just get frustrated since I'm always discussing Sakimoto with people who say that his music is unmemorable or boring.  I actually don't buy into the idea that one has to have a musically trained ear or whathaveyou in order to appreciate Sakimoto, because why then have I always been a fan?  I just like his style.  I have a thing for grand, militaristic, rhythmic, percussive, and dark kind of music.  That pretty much describes the kind of music Sakimoto does.  I must admit that I worry about the whole Basiscape thing in that it may result in less effort on his part from score to score.  So far however I've liked his stuff all the way from my first exposure in Ogre Battle to the more recent FFXII.

As for Yamaoka, I think I might agree with you that he's a little overrated, but I also agree with you in that I think his work is respectable enough.  The Silent Hill series is enough for me to give him his due.  I just don't care for his harder rock/metal stuff in Shin Contra or Rumble Roses at all.  That stuff just doesn't sit well with my sensitive ears.

Well, I've seen posts about less known composers that have also been referred to as "gods". If one person calls a composer a "god" it only means that that person thinks highly of that composer. It only becomes significant in the "overrated" regard if a lot of people do so, if there's a trend, and my point is that I feel that this trend has greatly lost it's power as far as Uematsu and Mitsuda go, and that their stars are on the decline.

Sorry, I definitely did not mean to imply that you seemed inexperienced or boast about being around for a long time or something like that. It's just that much in your post just seemed like a description of a few years ago rather than now. I almost got deja vu.

That might very well be true. Does this mean I messed up my chances of running for president?

Well, what's so strange about that? Personally, I'm no big Uematsu-fan, but of all the composers who have done work for the FF series, I think he's the best (with the possible exception of Junya Nakano). If you asked me right out of the blue who I would like to compose the next FF soundtrack, I'd probably say Uematsu too. That doesn't mean that I think he's a god, or that he's much overrated because a lot of people would like to see him back for FF.
And honestly - not to knock Sakimoto further, but... - after I heard the FF12 OST, I really wished for Uematsu's return, too. I really disliked that OST.

OK, I know what you mean. There are still clueless newbies and dumbasses out there, but there will always be. It is just my feeling that the number of such people who unconditionally heap their praise onto Uematsu or Mitsuda has diminished in recent years (compared to the late 1990s/early 2000s, anyway). And that number sure isn't going up now that those composers are doing lesser known projects. Time does that.

Yeah, the raw sound is great, one of the things that really pulled me in with his music (another factor being that he composes in many of my favourite genres - industrial, ambient, trip hop, rock, metal, etc. - and does it damn well, in my opinion). This raw sound is often reflected in (as you mentioned) his unJapanese style in interviews, he doesn't seem like the run-at-the-mill stereotypical obsessively polite Japanese composer, and that's refreshing. Yamaoka's music contains all the characteristics I want music to have, so my knee-jerk reaction is always to wonder how anyone could dislike his works. But I guess we want and like different things in music, and that's why we like/dislike different composers (duh).

I guess that since you said you had some respect for him as an artist, I have to cancel that hitman I sent out after your first post.

I agree that their stars are on the decline.  I just have a difficult time convincing some people of it, or rather that any effort from another composer could be just as good as the efforts of those two 'gods' ever were.  It's tough.

Ah, no prob then.  I was waiting for you to address me as 'son' at some point after that 'us old-timers' stuff.

No, it means that you and Tommy Tallarico can't be friends or something.  You need more One-Winged Angel on your playlist.

Well, it's more of matter of some of these people (not all of them) coming off like they don't accept a different composer simply because he/she is not Uematsu.  I mean, I love Uematsu's older work in the series, but there are some people who act like every Final Fantasy soundtrack is equally great as long as Uematsu is behind it.  I wonder sometimes if people are too hasty to judge FFXII's music negatively due to the comfort and familiarity that came with knowing that Final Fantasy equals a Uematsu score.  It really does seem like Uematsu is/was the John Williams's of game composers.  He was so good (yes, I know this is subjective, but I'm sticking to it) and so influential for his time that it's tough for anyone else to compare on a legacy level.

Of course, it doesn't help that FF12 as a game was equally jarring and unexpected for a lot of people.  Just as with the music, many people were wishing for the traditional combat style of the older games as well.