Soundtrack Central The best classic game music and more

Daniel K Sep 27, 2008

Amazingu wrote:

Going to have to jump in to defend MM4 here!

In terms of gameplay I would rank them like this:

MM4, MM3, MM2, MM6..........................................................MM5, MM1

Mega Man 4 is a great game, but hardly the best. The stages were pretty generic and uneventful, IMO. MM5, on the other hand, had some great level design like Gravityman's stage. Other examples include the aforementioned Protoman castle stage, Starman, and Waveman.

Amazingu Sep 27, 2008

Yeah, I'll admit Gravityman's stage was great, but I really didn't care for any of the rest of 'em, including Protoman. And what's that Jet Ski shit in Waveman's stage about!?

I have to say that a large portion of my fondness of MM4 is probably nostalgia, the way I got the game, and some other related memories, that just made it stand out as a particularly meaningful game to me.
It's THE MM game I've played through most, and the one I'm still most likely to play when firing up the old Emulator (wish I still had the original cartridge sad  At least I have the PSX version...)

Plus, I remember being totally overwhelmed by the size of some of the bosses in the Castle levels.

Daniel K Sep 27, 2008

Amazingu wrote:

what's that Jet Ski shit in Waveman's stage about!?

Yeah, boo to originality and variation in the stage designs! I liked the jet ski bit. Besides, Waveman's stage also had that part where you traveled through the air on bubbles, which was very cool (it seems like they re-used this aspect in MM9).

Amazingu wrote:

I have to say that a large portion of my fondness of MM4 is probably nostalgia

I think nostalgia and fond memories form a big part of my love for MM5 as well. Anyway, its only a matter of degrees as to which is the best - I love all the NES Mega Mans, they're great games, and I can't wait to sink my teeth into MM9. The soundtrack is getting better every time I hear it. 8-bit forever!

Zane Sep 27, 2008

Daniel K wrote:

I love all the NES Mega Mans, they're great games, and I can't wait to sink my teeth into MM9.

For lack of better words, you are gonna love the shit out of MM9.

Amazingu Sep 28, 2008

Daniel K wrote:

Yeah, boo to originality and variation in the stage designs!

No platform series has EVER benefited from vehicle sections.
NONE I tell you.

I can't wait to get my hands on MM9 either, but I'll have to wait until I move in to my new appartment and establish an Internet connection sad

SonicPanda Sep 28, 2008

Not all vehicle stages are bad. Jet Stingray's rocks all to hell because

A. you speed out of an exploding tunnel midway through, which is always rad,
B. AIR WHEELIES, and
C. AIR WHEELIES ON THE BOSS' HEAD WHILE HE TRIES BOMBING YOU

*ahem* But that's the most awesome case of course. I'll break MM's vehicle/autoscroll stages down for myself:

AWESOME
---
Jet Stingray

Acceptable
---
MM4 Cossack 3
Waveman
MM7 Wily 3 Boss
Frostman & MM8 Wily 1
MM8 Tenguman & MM8 Wily 2
Avalanche Yeti

#$@%&*!!
---
MM&B Tenguman
MM&B King 2 Boss
Squid Adler/Bolt Kraken
Ride Boarski
Crimson Palace Road
Gigabolt Man-O-War

Daniel K Sep 28, 2008

Amazingu wrote:

No platform series has EVER benefited from vehicle sections.
NONE I tell you.

Ever played Shin Contra...?

Ashley Winchester Sep 28, 2008

SonicPanda wrote:

Not all vehicle stages are bad. Jet Stingray's rocks all to hell because

A. you speed out of an exploding tunnel midway through, which is always rad,
B. AIR WHEELIES, and
C. AIR WHEELIES ON THE BOSS' HEAD WHILE HE TRIES BOMBING YOU

*ahem* But that's the most awesome case of course.

Couldn't agree more but then X4 just freakin' rocks period.

Avalanche Yeti is acceptable once you get the feel down and can avoid getting caught on things.

I don't think Squid Adler/Bolt Kraken is horrendous... once you get it down it's rather easy. Yeah, it's annoying feeling your way though it to get to that point but at least the stage's music helps ease any pain.

Ride Boarski's level is an abomination. I honestly can't believe this made the final cut and made it past testing when it's such a mess.

Gigabolt Man-O-War isn't as bad as Ride Boarski's level (the developers obviously learned a lesson there - shocker!) yet it's a real pain on the hardest diffculty. The thing that annoys me most is the music (a guest appearence by Okada) doesn't fit with the rest of the soundtrack.

the_miker Sep 28, 2008

I apologize for getting this thread slightly back on topic but there are a couple samples of the Rockman 9 Arrange Soundtrack over at the official site.  Sounds promising.  I'm really looking forward to hearing what Bun Bun's track sounds like!

-Mike

Angela Sep 28, 2008

Oh awesome, the Staff Roll theme is going to be a vocal?  I am SO hitting that.

Speaking of MM9 arrangements...... I'm sure fan-made ones will be coming out soon enough, but have you all heard Juja's Tornado Man mix back during July's Dwelling of Duels?

Juja: Mega Man 9 - Super Fighting Robot 9:
http://dod.vgmix.com/past/jul08/ZZalt-J … ot-DoD.mp3

Zorbfish Oct 5, 2008

I thought the arrange CD isn't on sale until the 10th? I only ask because I saw one already up for sale.

Zane Oct 5, 2008

Zorbfish wrote:

I thought the arrange CD isn't on sale until the 10th? I only ask because I saw one already up for sale.

Maybe that's a sample or something? The date is still the 10th as far as I know.

Bernhardt Oct 5, 2008 (edited Oct 5, 2008)

the_miker wrote:

I apologize for getting this thread slightly back on topic but there are a couple samples of the Rockman 9 Arrange Soundtrack over at the official site.  Sounds promising.  I'm really looking forward to hearing what Bun Bun's track sounds like!

-Mike

Definitely better than those *something* Anniversary Rock & Techno arranges...

Also, that dark, red-and-black version of the album cover looks cooler than the one they're using officially.

Angela wrote:

Jewel Man's "Jewel Temptation" is sexy-hip. big_smile

That's what I said! yikes

Jodo Kast Oct 5, 2008

This will definitely be getting transferred from .ape to .wav to .mp3, for the purpose of playback in my car. The MM9 OST has the type of sound I grew up hearing, so it is welcome indeed. There isn't a single stage theme that I dislike.

SonicPanda Oct 11, 2008

Zane wrote:

Samples are up for RM9 Arrange CD. It's... well, interesting. Not as metal as I had hoped, but there are only three songs represented

Those and the vocal, too, which plays in particular the bit that reminds me of Super Punch-Out's staff roll.

It sounds OK so far, but definitely more Alph Lyra than Inti Creates. I did laugh a bit when Hornet Dance whipped out the Superstitous riff, though.

Angela Oct 11, 2008

SonicPanda wrote:

Those and the vocal, too, which plays in particular the bit that reminds me of Super Punch-Out's staff roll.

I'd just completed a full playthrough of Super Punch-Out, and after hearing its end credits, I've gotta agree; that melodic strain sounds like a remarkably similar variation.  Good catch!

I'm digging the samples, especially the funky vibe coursing through Hornet Dance. And Magma Burning laced with a strings-heavy country flavor is something I don't think any of us would've expected.

Zane Oct 15, 2008

Someone uploaded about half of the album half of the album on Youtube. I'm glad I didn't preorder this one. It's very... well, "meh" to me.

Carl Oct 16, 2008 (edited Oct 16, 2008)

Zane wrote:

...Not as metal as I had hoped...

At least the Boss -Born Again- track delivers on that.
There's a section in that song ripped straight outta Metal Slug though, so less originality points for that move.

While the Arrange album has diversity, it doesn't have the ENERGY that I associate with Rockman, so I'm much preferring the OST at this point as well.  There's too much of a chill-out vibe, it could have been titled "Rockman Relaxation".

Herrkotowski Oct 16, 2008

I really, really, really enjoyed the arrange album. It had a ton of diversity and definitely did things to Rockman music that I didn't think would work well, but ended up being quite exhilarating. Bun Bun's arrangement immediately comes to mind. That was pure genius there, if you ask me.

Either way, I'm rather impressed with the album. Sure, it wasn't chock full of energy, but does it really need to be?

Zane Oct 16, 2008

Carl wrote:

While the Arrange album has diversity, it doesn't have the ENERGY that I associate with Rockman, so I'm much preferring the OST at this point as well.

You said it better than I did. I didn't find the arrangements or instrument choices to be that strong, either. The album tries to incorporate a bunch of styles on to one disc, but it really doesn't do any of them particularly well. Sure, the novelty factor is there, but this CD doesn't make the cut in my books.

Angela Oct 16, 2008

Herrkotowski wrote:

I really, really, really enjoyed the arrange album. It had a ton of diversity and definitely did things to Rockman music that I didn't think would work well, but ended up being quite exhilarating.

Either way, I'm rather impressed with the album. Sure, it wasn't chock full of energy, but does it really need to be?

Agreed.   I love the variety the album showcases, even if it's at the sacrifice of "energy."   From the simple piano elegance of the Prologue and Epilogue, to the aforementioned funky vibe of Hornet Fantasy, the country-strings flavor of Magma Burning, and the dance and techno beats employed in We're The Robots and Maze of Death - the music styles are constantly shifting gears, and it makes for an engaging listen.  Boss -Born Again- indeed slams hard, and Miki Tsuchiya's lovely "To A Bright Tomorrow" vocal was pulled off just as I had hoped.  (I only wished the Karaoke version was actually an Instrumental one; the lead melody would've sounded AMAZING as an instrument arranged.)

There are some missed opportunities, such as Thunder Tornado and Jewel Temptation, where the melody in both are much too subdued for their own good.  That, and a few of the songs could've stood for extended arrangement lengths.  Those aside, I'm pretty happy with the way the Arranged Soundtrack came out.  It hearkens back to the arranged soundtracks of yore, where there was free reign to work the 8-bit melodies in more flexible ways - as opposed to the arrangements of more modern OSTs, where there's almost an obligation to adhere most closely to the original sound.  It's nostalgically refreshing.

XISMZERO Oct 16, 2008

Hornet Man's arrange is just fun and funky -- this one just stands out the most. Though I like how original members of the Rockman sound team helped make this album possible, nothing is better than real instruments over keyboards (aside from the guitars, drums). I'll trade a real brass section or pianica over a keyboard imitation, no matter how genuine they sound (of course that makes costs to produce the album go up).

Hopefully with all this Rockman revival, we can finally see some quality, musically diverse arranges to the older Rockmans and make up for those heavily lacking 20th Anniversary mockeries.

Carl Oct 16, 2008 (edited Oct 16, 2008)

On second listen through my acceptance is improving. 

But it's sounding less like Rockman and more like OTHER games though!!

Splash Woman is practically Schala from Chrono Trigger
Magma Man dreams of being in a Wild Arms intro
Overdrive Scamble is Magus from Chrono Trigger with a dash of Xenogears.
Suspense is done Soukaigi style, minus the live instruments which could have turned that into magic.
What do you Select? could be a SNK Fighter select screen.

These ARE good songs, they just aren't rockman songs anymore, which is fine if that's the direction the producer was aiming for. 
I'm glad Manami Matsumae still has a Rockman's heart though.

Angela Oct 16, 2008

Carl wrote:

Splash Woman is practically Schala from Chrono Trigger

I had the same thought.  More specifically, it reminds me of the "Girl Forgotten In Time" arrangement from the Time & Space arranged album with its slight tribal percussion implementation.

I like the tonality of Splash Blue here, but I concede that somewhere in the middle there should've been a stronger more energetic emphasis on the percussion.  That would've made this song.

GoldfishX Oct 16, 2008 (edited Oct 16, 2008)

XISMZERO wrote:

Hopefully with all this Rockman revival, we can finally see some quality, musically diverse arranges to the older Rockmans and make up for those heavily lacking 20th Anniversary mockeries.

I dunno...I mean, I agree, but I didn't find anything on this one I'll listen to as much as I do the Tomahawkman theme on the Rock Arrange (which also happens to be the only track from those two albums that I thought did any justice to the original). Like, Wild Arms: Rocking Heart is a good "diverse" album, but it's awful as an actual rock album. Is it really that hard to take NES music and actually improve on it? A little speed metal would've done wonders for this one.

I don't really like what they did with this one at all. It feels like they tried to diversify the melodies with different sound set-ups and failed completely almost every time, either being short and haphazard takes (or just outright stupid...whoever chose the lead synths for Concreteman deserves some serious pain) or droning and too drawn out to matter. Which sucks, since I know III can arrange better than this, even if I don't dig the Remaster albums as much as I used to. Only ones I dig and will keep are Boss, We're The Robots and To a Shining Tomorrow. Jury's still out, but I'm leaning positive on Galaxyman and Maze of Death (yay for the drum samples!) Otherwise, total weaksauce.

Zorbfish Oct 17, 2008

Was the album actually supposed to have a rock-orientated theme? I don't remember them saying that, or anyone else here for that matter...

Carl Oct 17, 2008 (edited Oct 17, 2008)

It could have been all POP or Dance even, at least that would have had a better chance of still sounding like Rockman songs rather than Mitsuda songs.

It also seems like 8-bit really IS the only way to really capture megaman properly.

Daniel K Oct 17, 2008

Carl wrote:

It also seems like 8-bit really IS the only way to really capture megaman properly.

Wholeheartedly agreed.

Ashley Winchester Oct 17, 2008

Daniel K wrote:
Carl wrote:

It also seems like 8-bit really IS the only way to really capture megaman properly.

Wholeheartedly agreed.

I disagree. The 32-bit era was extremely good to Mega Man X4.

Daniel K Oct 18, 2008

Ashley Winchester wrote:
Daniel K wrote:
Carl wrote:

It also seems like 8-bit really IS the only way to really capture megaman properly.

Wholeheartedly agreed.

I disagree. The 32-bit era was extremely good to Mega Man X4.

To each his own. Personally, I feel the X series lost the simplicity and charm that made the NES Mega Mans so brilliant. The angsty storyline that fits Mega Man like a saddle fits a fish didn't do much to help, either. The soundtracks also got progressively more mediocre, IMO.

Zane Oct 18, 2008

Daniel K wrote:
Ashley Winchester wrote:
Daniel K wrote:

Wholeheartedly agreed.

I disagree. The 32-bit era was extremely good to Mega Man X4.

To each his own. Personally, I feel the X series lost the simplicity and charm that made the NES Mega Mans so brilliant. The angsty storyline that fits Mega Man like a saddle fits a fish didn't do much to help, either. The soundtracks also got progressively more mediocre, IMO.

I never got into the storylines, but I thought that the music for X4 was one of the highlights from the X series. Each SNES OST got less and less more enjoyable, then I thought things picked back up with X4, dipped down again with X5 (overrated) and then took an interesting turn with X6. I'd have to classify them as in their own categories - the music doesn't have the simplicity and charm that you mentioned, but some of the music is quite good on its own merit.

SonicPanda Oct 18, 2008 (edited Oct 18, 2008)

Carl wrote:

It also seems like 8-bit really IS the only way to really capture megaman properly.

See, THIS is the kind of thing I'm tired of hearing. Megaman 9 was good because it was a solidly designed game, not because the chosen idiom has magical transformative powers. The idea that 8-bit is inherently superior carries the connotation that the franchise has been twiddling its thumbs up its ass for the last 14 years (and doesn't address why some of the 8-bit entries are so lackluster), and leaves some of the very best games in the series for dead. Inti Creates themselves have made some incredible MM sidescrollers the last few years, the X series has a good number of solid entries, and Powered Up has my vote for being the greatest MM game ever made. Also, nobody criticizes the Legends games around me without getting a swift kick in the south-forty.

The tunnel vision behind this argument baffles me. Mark my words, the 8-bit redux of MM8 that fans are currently working on is going to be horrible. The original game was designed FOR the 4-and-4 stage format; considering the fans' fidelity to the originals, making Swordman's stage available from the start - when the weapons of the first four bosses are MANDATORY for traversing the stage - is a terrible idea. But 8-stages-at-the-start is how it was on the NES, so by thunder, that's the way it HAS to be.

Also, if this complaint is specifically measured against the soundtracks, then I disagree even more vehemently. MM7 has one of the most well-rounded soundtracks in the Classic series, and Battle & Chase is both completely hi-def and characteristically Megaman. If you go beyond the Classic series' borders, the ratio of quality-to-lousy soundtracks is very positive indeed, with only three serious duds in my estimation (Network Transmission, Command Mission, and the first MM Zero).

I could well be reading too far into what you're saying here, and if so I apologize. It could just be disappointment from the Arrange album talking*. But few things get my Irish up more than dismissive blanket statements about Megaman when the franchise has produced MUCH more good than bad over its history.

*My own thoughts on the album: Sure it's not as good as Inti's previous album, but those were remasters, not arrangements. These are supposed to be dramatic change-ups, and it seems that isn't what most were looking for (it's telling, in fact, that the most widely praised piece online, Matsumae's We're the Robots take, basically IS just a remaster).
If anything, I'm disappointed the didn't stretch out further - I imagine a Galaxyman arrangement in the style of Cowboy Bebop's "Bad Dog No Biscuits" and drool a little bit. Not all of it's good, some of it's quite wretched (the Stage Select, Tornadoman, and Boss mixes especially), but when it works, it works. I'd had the idea to turn Flash in the Dark into a lullaby for my niece before hearing the album, so it was a nice surprise to hear it in ballad form here. Splash Blue is unspeakably awesome, the highlight of the whole thing, and less Schala in my estimation than Donkey Kong Country or Brave Fencer Musashi. The piano arrangements are lovely, and the country style works very well for Magma Burning, if less so for Strange World (another problem with that track though, is that the harmony was inexplicably gutted, making the piece hollow).
I'd call it a good album that could've been great with half the tracks and longer arrangements (most of these end too abruptly and when they could've taken their ideas so much farther).
Oh, and PS: why does Ippo Yamada get top billing for the OST when the liner notes reveal he only contributed two friggin' tracks? Granted, one was Tornadoman, but STILL...

Ashley Winchester Oct 18, 2008

SonicPanda wrote:

If you go beyond the Classic series' borders, the ratio of quality-to-lousy soundtracks is very positive indeed, with only three serious duds in my estimation (Network Transmission, Command Mission, and the first MM Zero).

It's hard for me to say the first MMZ is a flat out dud even though I can take a handful of tracks and leave the rest - I mean "Enemy Hall" is like ten times better than the original GBA version. It was an inportant step in forging the series sound even though most of the ideas presented were abandoned by Idea. Still, I'll admit Physis is the only one I still have.

Not to pick a fight, I think Command Mission is one of the most underrated Mega Man scores out there. I usually dislike Shinya Okada's Mega Man music with a passion yet he gets away with what he does on this album because even though Command Mission is part of the X series he had more of a license to present something different because it wasn't a side scroller. Booting up the game I wasn't expecting normal Mega Man music because it was a RPG and to be honest I don't know what I was expecting to hear the first time I played. So, I guess what I'm saying is while the game was pretty disposable I think the music is/was the best element.

Carl Oct 19, 2008

SonicPanda wrote:
Carl wrote:

It also seems like 8-bit really IS the only way to really capture megaman properly.

See, THIS is the kind of thing I'm tired of hearing. Megaman 9 was good because it was a solidly designed game, not because the chosen idiom has magical transformative powers. The idea that 8-bit is inherently superior carries the connotation that the franchise has been twiddling its thumbs up its ass for the last 14 years (and doesn't address why some of the 8-bit entries are so lackluster), and leaves some of the very best games in the series for dead.

Let's see, I lost interest in the original after 4 or 5, and regained interest when X hit, then after either X2 or X3 that lost my interest too.   In MY playbook, yes the franchise HAS been twiddling it's thumbs for years, because it took 9 to get me back into being excited about rockman again, not any of the other two-dozen other titles in the past decade.

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