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raynebc Jan 30, 2017

Jay wrote:

Yep, there are Muslim counties left off the list. And yet a 'Muslim Ban' is what Trump said on his campaign and are the exact words Giuliani used. Trump has said he wants a Muslim ban and I'm taking him at his word.

Lots of people take him literally, some take him figuratively.  The truth is somewhere in the middle.  I had figured he meant controlling travel from hostile countries, and that's pretty much how the executive order turned out to be shaped.

Edit: hang on, there are really state borders looking for social media type info? Really? Must admit I know precious little about US state borders. I've never crossed one. Only ever went in and out of the country within the same state.

As jb mentioned, I think I am mistaken about this detail, but I generally reject the rest of his angry tirade.  Hopefully when he sees the sky isn't really falling, he'll get over it and move on.

Razakin wrote:

So, people get deported, doesn't that mean the system works? As if you enter USA illegally, you're bound to get deported? I mean, how many illegal aliens have done terrorist strikes in US soil?

The fact that so many people who weren't authorized to be here get deported shows how porous the border is.  Asking for examples of terrorist attacks "on US soil" is a very specific condition to attach to lessen the perceived risk of attack.  Foreign nationals have committed terrorism attacks on Western civilization countries in Europe, what happens there can happen here.  We're "lucky" enough that crime committed by illegal aliens in the US have mostly been less severe crimes (than terrorism, which is a very high bar to compare against).

But in the end, basically I'd like to hear your opinion what's wrong about the border control now. As non-american it's hard to know stuff like this.

It's pretty obvious by now.  Presently, there isn't much to physically block people from entering the country illegally, and it requires patrolling.  There are laws on the books about how people are supposed to be dealt with when they enter the country illegally, but those laws haven't been adequately/reliably enforced due to insufficient resources and a lack of desire to enforce.

But I do think that one reason why those countries that I've pointed earlier aren't on the list, is because Trump has business in those places

I think that's a pretty weak argument, but it's a common oppositional talking point of late.  It's not concerning to me that Trump had done business with Middle Eastern countries that were NOT on a government terrorism blacklist.  I would be concerned if he HAD done business with the blacklisted countries.

So, you wouldn't mind showing all your social media sites, websites you visit or personal contacts from your phone when you visit any country outside of USA? You don't value your privacy?

Not that I do, or ever plan, on traveling outside the country, but if I did I would be willing to surrender all belongings I carry with me for inspection.  I am not a fan of social media and as such have very little presence in it.  I would not likely raise any flags of interest.

Amazingu Jan 30, 2017

raynebc wrote:

As jb mentioned, I think I am mistaken about this detail

That is a really weird "detail" to be wrong about though.
I'm guessing you've never actually left your state then?

Not that I do, or ever plan, on traveling outside the country

Well, there we have it as far as I'm concerned.

From all of your posts, I'm getting a very strong feeling you're living inside a very small bubble that you don't bother to get out of. You're in your comfort zone and not interested in hearing from or knowing about other people. You almost come across as brainwashed.
I'm willing to bet you don't have any non-white friends either, so you probably don't know anyone actually affected by all of Trump's bullshit.

As someone who IS very active on social media, I'm seeing hundreds upon hundreds of people pointing out the sad state the US is in right now, but you act as if nothing serious is going on.

The sheer number of petitions that have been made in the past week alone is astounding (I'm sure they will all prove fruitless, but still): California trying to become independent, the UK trying to prevent Trump from visiting, etc.
This is not normal. And I'm sure you'll shrug it off as liberals acting as if the "sky is going to fall", but I would strongly encourage you to get out there and inform yourself (contrary to Goldfish's statement, I think the Anti-Trump crowd here has done a MUCH better job of actually listening to the other side, even if they've also shown more aggression), and don't use Breitbart for a change.

Kirin Lemon Jan 31, 2017 (edited Jan 31, 2017)

raynebc wrote:

It's not concerning to me that Trump had done business with Middle Eastern countries that were NOT on a government terrorism blacklist.  I would be concerned if he HAD done business with the blacklisted countries.

Even you can't possibly be this slow.  The whole reason those countries aren't blacklisted is because he does business with them.  We've been through this already.  Jesus effing christ, the only possible way to interpret this is that you're pretending to be ignorant because you have no legitimate defense of Trump's actions.


raynebc wrote:

Not that I do, or ever plan, on traveling outside the country, but if I did I would be willing to surrender all belongings I carry with me for inspection.  I am not a fan of social media and as such have very little presence in it.  I would not likely raise any flags of interest.

This is the perfect encapsulation of modern conservatism, right here - "I don't care to educate myself, and I have no empathy for others. To hell with everyone else and their civil liberties, as long as I'm not personally affected."

You really are pure garbage.

Jay Jan 31, 2017

raynebc wrote:

Lots of people take him literally, some take him figuratively.  The truth is somewhere in the middle.

He's not the bible, something to be interpreted. He does not speak in metaphor or riddles. We were told one of his positives was that he says what he means. He's a straight shooter. If you willfully ignore or wave aside his words, that's up to you but it's a decision you make. His words are his words and have always been. He has never hidden who he is.

Jodo Kast Jan 31, 2017

longhairmike wrote:
GoldfishX wrote:

There's no reason any unknown person should be coming into the US and all it takes is one rogue truck rental to kill hundreds of people.

that damn timothy mcveigh,  we never should've let those irish in, right?

Haha. I like that. I find it highly amusing that people in charge don't understand that political borders and "race" and religion are artificial, fantasy creations. The only thing that matters is biology and we are ALL human. If you really want to make a country safe, then shoot everyone that tries to cross the border. I am amused.

XISMZERO Jan 31, 2017

Kirin Lemon wrote:

Even you can't possibly be this slow.
You really are pure garbage.

Thought we were keeping this clean. Petty name calling and personal attacks are OK? Where's the moderation on this?

raynebc Jan 31, 2017

Amazingu wrote:

I'm guessing you've never actually left your state then?

I've been to the Southern states to visit family before, but I only live and work in the Northwest.

From all of your posts, I'm getting a very strong feeling you're living inside a very small bubble that you don't bother to get out of. You're in your comfort zone and not interested in hearing from or knowing about other people. You almost come across as brainwashed.
I'm willing to bet you don't have any non-white friends either, so you probably don't know anyone actually affected by all of Trump's bullshit.

This is similar to some of the other intolerance I've seen in this thread, asserting or implying that since I don't agree with others there is something wrong with ME.  I don't care to stoop to the level of the people in this thread that are explicitly directing hate at me.  One of my friends is a room mate of Armenian descent.  Otherwise, no I don't have a ton of ethnic friends.  That doesn't make me a bad person or invalidate my life choices.  That's pretty much all I have to say about it.

As someone who IS very active on social media, I'm seeing hundreds upon hundreds of people pointing out the sad state the US is in right now, but you act as if nothing serious is going on.

During Obama's presidency, I saw an obnoxiously vocal group of partisans that spewed hate about Democrats.  Fast forward to today and I see an obnoxiously vocal group of partisans spewing hate about Republicans.  And despite your thoughts that only the anti-Trumpers are justified in this ugly and divisive behavior, I see it as a different side of the very same coin, and laws and policy will be dictated by the side that landed face up.

As usual, Kirin is incapable of civil discussion.  People are banned on most reasonably-moderated forums for this type of repeated personal attack.  I don't see the point of continuing in this thread.  Everybody's made their mostly unwavering stances completely clear, and there are a select one or two who are not even going to pretend to "keep it clean" or to make mature or rational posts.  This is the state of modern politics, but at least I can say I kept my head higher than leveling outright hatred toward the opposition.

jb Jan 31, 2017

raynebc wrote:

This is similar to some of the other intolerance I've seen in this thread, asserting or implying that since I don't agree with others there is something wrong with ME.  I don't care to stoop to the level of the people in this thread that are explicitly directing hate at me.  One of my friends is a room mate of Armenian descent.  Otherwise, no I don't have a ton of ethnic friends.  That doesn't make me a bad person or invalidate my life choices.  That's pretty much all I have to say about it.

It doesn't make you a bad person, it makes you a close-minded, narrow-minded, and ignorant person. That is not hatred, that is reality.

raynebc wrote:

During Obama's presidency, I saw an obnoxiously vocal group of partisans that spewed hate about Democrats.  Fast forward to today and I see an obnoxiously vocal group of partisans spewing hate about Republicans.  And despite your thoughts that only the anti-Trumpers are justified in this ugly and divisive behavior, I see it as a different side of the very same coin, and laws and policy will be dictated by the side that landed face up.

There were not mass protests when Obama got elected. There was not a constitutional crisis in the first 9 days of his presidency. This is not regular politics. This is not "business as usual". This is not just standard party divisions. This is about a man incapable of holding public office, let alone the highest public office, and a power play in the White House right now between an outspoken white nationalist with his own agenda trying to control Trump by whispering in his ear, and the Republican party dancing around all red flags raised in the last year and a half with his candidacy because they are trying to control him to pass Republican agendas and thinking that they can manage him. They can't.

I would be fine with a Republican president who doesn't share my values or really represents me. Even Pence, who by all accounts is worse than Trump, would at least understand the basic, fundamental process of government and the office. Trump is not a Republican. Trump is not a president.

The fact that you think it's simply a bipartisan coin flip issue is bewildering at best and catastrophic at worse. That kind of attitude and thinking is exactly what got us in this situation in the first place.

Adam Corn Feb 1, 2017 (edited Feb 1, 2017)

First of all I do have a personal life away from this game music site which is run in my free time, so moderating posts on a daily basis is not a given. If I were following my own personal preferences I would have edited several posts here already but given how up in arms certain members get about any moderation whatsoever it's not exactly something I can do on a whim.

The "you're garbage" type comments need to stop. Forum etiquette aside, they're pointless. I understand the sentiment that some things being said here feel maddeningly misguided, self-centered or worse, but considering how bad things in this country now appear they could actually get, some amount of understanding with people on the other side - no matter how severe the disagreements have been up to this point - is eventually going to be needed, and outright anger isn't going to accomplish it. Even if the person being addressed is beyond convincing, other people read such conversations as these, and supporting the narrative of "angry opposition politics as usual" doesn't help things with them.

On the other side, I would love for this to be a civil discussion purely about policy but when your President of choice has hardly been civil and you insist on supporting even his most unsavory actions and statements then you shouldn't be surprised to see yourself lumped in the same boat as him. Ideally we wouldn't be talking about politicians and their supporters as good or bad people but when fundamental regard for different races, genders and religions (along with basic human rights like, for example, not detaining innocent people without counsel or stranding them completely without warning from the families) is at question then it actually does boil down to good and bad. At any rate, the "you're a bad person" line has only been leveled by a couple different people, the rest have been fairly reasonable assumptions based on things posted here.

Some bad things have been said here but there's more than enough bad stuff going on in Washington right now so if this thread is to continue I suggest we focus on the latter.

Idolores Feb 1, 2017

Can you all just agree that Trump isn't a good guy and go back to talking about Yasunori Mitsuda and the price of SNES ost's, please?

Never wanted to see this inane ugliness.

XISMZERO Feb 1, 2017 (edited Feb 1, 2017)

I come to places like this to escape the general horrors of the world. Ultimately, we need to accept differing views and stop looking at fellow Americans with whom we disagree as enemies. Also keep in mind every president in history makes mistakes. Trump has made quite the misstep with the travel ban and that's evident. Things will eventually balance themselves out because that's what we as Americans do.

Problem I saw with President Obama was that too many people including most of the American media liked him (CNN actually giving debate questions in advance to Clinton!), helped the Democrats and propped up a celebrity status. You shouldn't like any of these people. You should always watch them and criticize them where it's needed. They are elected to do a job, things of which, at times, are unlikable, dealing with life and death.

Keep in mind (and please don't begin with pop vote/electoral college stuff) the majority of the country democratically elected Trump. You don't have to like it but it is what it is -- grow up and accept it.  This is how I felt after everyone I didn't vote for in previous elections. The discourse following Trump's victory has been out of control, toxic and unnecessarily violent -- not something I've seen in my (short) lifetime. The need to call people racist/xenophobic/Hitler also needs to stop. Assuming people of color or gender or what have you all voted one way or they don't matter is just ignorant as well. We are people with brains before race/color/gender/etc. It upsets me that anyone who wedges one of these aspects into discourse before ideas.

Further, no one in America should be afraid to express whomever they voted for and have to worry about their own safety and as of late, it's Trump supporters who have been physically attacked. This isn't right and I would say the same for anyone who voted for Clinton.

And I know I will be attacked as a Trump supporter or sympathizer. I'm a longtime registered independent and a libertarian. I didn't vote in this election and I have reservations about some decisions (for one, I don't like the reactionary tweeting and grandstanding by Trump) made but the realty is he is the president and it's going to stay that way for the next 4 years. If he's truly that bad, then he'll be voted out in 2020 and the other party (because America is still too conservative for an actual, serious third party) will have to try harder to convince people. Until then, I will continue to believe that it's best America is divided 50/50 because that also assures we are still an active, democratic republic.

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