Soundtrack Central The best of VGM and other great soundtracks

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Kirin Lemon Feb 1, 2016

We get it, you like Mario Sunshine.  So do I, but I also recognize its many problems.  You really don't have to obsessively respond to every single sentence of every response which disagrees with your unhinged Sunshine-lust.

vert1 Feb 1, 2016

This is just the warm up round. When I post about how Galaxy is dumbed down and the mechanics of Super Mario Sunshine are the future for Mario games on Neogaf you'll get to see what a real bloodbath looks like.

jb Feb 2, 2016

vert1 wrote:

This is just the warm up round. When I post about how Galaxy is dumbed down and the mechanics of Super Mario Sunshine are the future for Mario games on Neogaf you'll get to see what a real bloodbath looks like.

Can you just post them there and not here and save us all the extra spin of our scroll wheels?  Thanks.

Kirin Lemon Feb 2, 2016

vert1 wrote:

This is just the warm up round. When I post about how Galaxy is dumbed down and the mechanics of Super Mario Sunshine are the future for Mario games on Neogaf you'll get to see what a real bloodbath looks like.

Have you really been obsessing over this for nearly five years?  Yikes.

Ashley Winchester Feb 2, 2016 (edited Feb 2, 2016)

GoldfishX wrote:

SMB3 is best

I'd argue against that. I like World more. One of the reasons being it's more balanced.

Edit:

However, I'm probably saying this because I only had a NES for six months before getting a SNES so my experiences with the NES back in its heyday were much more limited than my time with the SNES which got a pretty good workout.

Brandon Feb 2, 2016

I really like the Galaxy games and 3D World overall, but I'm not a huge fan of the return to linear courses. I feel like a bit of magic went out of the series when they abandoned the open-course, goal-oriented format of 64 and Sunshine.

Jay Feb 2, 2016

GoldfishX wrote:

SMB3 is best

YOU CAN'T MOVE THE CAMERA

Kirin Lemon Feb 2, 2016

Jay wrote:
GoldfishX wrote:

SMB3 is best

YOU CAN'T MOVE THE CAMERA

Thread over. You win.

Kirin Lemon Feb 2, 2016

What about when I pass through those white blocks to get Warp Whistles?  I can't see Mario at all behind the backdrops!  Mario 3's stupid camera is almost as busted as Sunshine's.

raynebc Feb 3, 2016

In those cases it is entirely intentional for effect.  It's not broken behavior.

Jay Feb 3, 2016

So an automatically working camera trumps camera control.

raynebc Feb 3, 2016

When the automatic camera is always 100% adequate and never malfunctions, yeah.

Jay Feb 3, 2016

Good, so that's what we're striving for here. Galaxy's gets closer than Sunshine, where neither the automatic camera nor manual one are even close to 100% adequate.

Idolores Feb 3, 2016

Kirin Lemon wrote:
Jay wrote:
GoldfishX wrote:

SMB3 is best

YOU CAN'T MOVE THE CAMERA

Thread over. You win.

I love you people.

vert1 Jul 26, 2016 (edited Jun 11, 2019)

Time to get back on this again. While it may be impossible to change opinion on what game you enjoyed more it won't be hard to demonstrate some very important facts.

1. The problem people have with Sunshine's camera is its hover auto-rotation mechanic. This came about because of the Mario feel in that the game has a rigid linear type of movement when Mario has jumped (opposed to the non-linearity of jumps in other games like Jak & Daxter, Maximo, Super Mario 3D World, etc.), so the hovering matches that movement. It would produce discordance if you could whip yourself around in the air easily like in DK64 with Diddy Kong's jetpack.

2. The camera punishes non-synchronization. The camera will always be readjusting itself to stay within a range of a straight view that syncs with FORWARD MOVEMENT DESIGN of the game. Try running SIDEWAYS in Super Mario Sunshine (excluding athletic courses) and the camera will start to move to be behind Mario so that Mario is FORWARD. So, no, the camera is not going to let you hover BACKWARDS to produce FORWARD movement. No the camera is not going to let you hover SIDEWAYS because that does not produce FORWARD movement.

3. Super Mario Galaxy is undisputedly a downgraded game regarding the core components of Mario and the camera. The downgraded movement mechanics cannot be argued against because the moveset/inputs of Super Mario 64 and Super Mario Sunshine have already been well documented and have shown they are less. The camera control mechanics are less compared to both games as well. But the big problem with the DOWNGRADE is that it prevents Mario games from moving FORWARD to having MASSIVE IMMERSION in an OPEN WORLD in which Sunshine was moving FORWARD towards. Why? Because Mario controls like a DOWNGRADED 3RD PARTY CHARACTER that does not build up momentum (i.e. one with a poor physics engine) and thus producing an easy way of satisfying developers in the genre by having the character literately STICK ON LANDINGS. While this makes platforming MORE EASY to manage it also makes it LESS FUN+COMPLEX+CHALLENGING of conquering MORE TERRAIN with MORE SPEED.

Mario v.64 cannot compete in an open world game with Mario v.SMS. Mario v.SMS can run up hills, speed across vast terrain with a water slide, speed across vast bodies of water with a hover nozzle, soar up mountains with a rocket nozzle, etc. Mario v.64 just cannot move around through large terrain without making the player feel like they are slow. So if you are not going to bulk up the world from a sandbox/playground to a park/world then you want Nintendo to NOT RELEASE MORE POWERFUL HARDWARE.

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