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GoldfishX Sep 15, 2012

vert1 wrote:

Nintendo needs saving? Are we just going to completely ignore DS and Wii sales? How about the fact that Nintendo is the second richest company in Japan? Stupid article.

Comparisons to the Dreamcast are oblivious to Sega's console history sales. Got news for everyone here -- even on their worst selling console, Gamecube, Nintendo made a healthy profit off it. Whoever wrote that article should find a train to run over their fingers.

http://www.google.com/finance?q=PINK%3A … IXe0QGM0AE

Apparently, their shareholders ARE ignoring DS and Wii sales and are thoroughly unimpressed by 3DS so far (see: their panicky pricedrop). Investors tend to live in the now, unfortunately. And it's pretty well known that Nintendo usually turns a profit on hardware, which is one of the benefits of stripping down features (GC) and offering less power than their competitors (Wii). I'm not sure if that is the case with Wii U. Considering the price of tablets, I wager they are losing some money when you combine both the console and the tablet controller.

Their situation may not be as dire as Dreamcast's (Dreamcast was a failure in Japan from the get-go and Sega was practically out of money when they launched it anyway), but if Wii U turns out to be a significant drain on their resources and investor confidence without producing monster sales, Nintendo could be in for a hurting.

It must also be said that Sony is not doing particularly well, from a financial standpoint these days. Probably worse off than Nintendo at the moment. I'm not sure how they are going to support an already-dying Playstation Vita and a next generation console.

vert1 Sep 15, 2012

I know the stock price. I'm not responding to anymore retardation on Nintendo going 3rd party. Not even worth it.

Qui-Gon Joe Sep 15, 2012 (edited Sep 15, 2012)

Yeah, I STILL don't get the "Nintendo is doomed" people.  I don't care if you love or hate them or something in between - they've NEVER not been profitable.  Sega's problems stemmed not from quality control but from terrible business strategies, which are something that Nintendo has never had a problem with.  Even if the Wii U doesn't light the world on fire and become the far-and-away market leader as the DS and Wii did, they're still going to make enough money to keep doing whatever the heck they want to do. 

And on a personal note, as someone who has preordered the console, I don't really care at all HOW successful the thing is - not being first place never stopped me from loving my Gamecube, Saturn, Dreamcast, or Turbo Grafx...

Edit: Also, with the yen value being what it is combined with Nintendo's traditional focus on Japan first and the rest of the world later, I think even if they don't sell well in the west, Japan is pretty much locked in.  Launching with a Monster Hunter bundle and then following up with an HD version of Dragon Quest X should give them a nice, smooth start to this gen over there.

GoldfishX Sep 15, 2012

Qui-Gon Joe wrote:

Sega's problems stemmed not from quality control but from terrible business strategies, which are something that Nintendo has never had a problem with.

I respectfully disagree with this quote, as I feel Iwata has made many questionable decisions as head of Nintendo. Hiroshi Yamauchi may have been somewhat of a dick (and most of Nintendo's N64 woes happened under his watch), but I have no doubt he was a much better leader of the company. I also feel like Wii's success was something of a fluke, when it became such a red-hot item for casual gamers...something it will have difficulty duplicating with Move/Kinect/tablets/phones on the market and with Wii U's higher price tag.

But I do agree that, outside of the 3DS price drop, we have never seen a "desperate" Nintendo in the past and I wonder what they have up their sleeve to appease shareholders. I mean, look at how Square Enix has turned out...oh wait...better not. hmm

Also, Sega's main issue was political infighting...the Japanese branch resented the American branch for being successful with the Genesis (which bombed in Japan), so they tried to make Tom Kalinski look like an idiot with the Saturn and tried to reassert control, with disasterous results. They lost so much money and so much of their fanbase because of that, the Dreamcast didn't stand a chance, especially once PS2 woke up.

xplojin. Sep 15, 2012 (edited Sep 15, 2012)

Qui-Gon Joe wrote:

Yeah, I STILL don't get the "Nintendo is doomed" people.

the launch selection of games is abysmal while the launch price is astronomical, considering what you're getting. the Wii as it is has only had such an abysmal selection of games. Wii U trying to appeal to hardcore gamers is irrelevant at this point, when most have already jumped ship to XBox & PS3.

not to mention Nintendo trying to re-re-re-release Super Mario Bros. 3 as the New Super Mario Bros. and Super Mario 3D Land.

GoldfishX wrote:

On the other hand...Nintendo on Steam doesn't sound like a bad idea at all.

why bother? a simple Google search will net you emulators and ROMs just as easily accessible, and for free.

problem with pay-for digital downloads, is that they're often tied to the single machine they're downloaded on, so if you want it on another machine, you have to download it again. how many times do you want to pay for the same game?

Datschge Sep 15, 2012 (edited Sep 15, 2012)

Sega was on life support for a long time before they exited the console market. If it hasn't been for Isao Okawa and his company CSK owning the majority of Sega and regularly providing money the Sega we know would never have happened at all.

Nintendo is not comparable at all.

TerraEpon Sep 16, 2012 (edited Sep 16, 2012)

xplojin. wrote:

problem with pay-for digital downloads, is that they're often tied to the single machine they're downloaded on, so if you want it on another machine, you have to download it again. how many times do you want to pay for the same game?

Which isn't a problem for Steam, at least not the 'pay again' (of course you have to DL again, unless you simply copy it yourself)

From what I gather, the Genesis games on it sell pretty well, and they often are available for a really good price. Far better than anything you can get on the VC certainly.

GoldfishX Sep 16, 2012

xplojin wrote:

why bother? a simple Google search will net you emulators and ROMs just as easily accessible, and for free.

I was assuming we were talking 100% legal methods that satisfy both the consumer and the company that is providing the entertainment. I was thinking how a post-console Nintendo would still be able to release games like Mario Kart, Smash, etc and reach a wide audience.

GoldfishX Sep 16, 2012

Datschge wrote:

Sega was on life support for a long time before they exited the console market. If it hasn't been for Isao Okawa and his company CSK owning the majority of Sega and regularly providing money the Sega we know would never have happened at all.

Nintendo is not comparable at all.

Just as an aside, my comments above regarding Sega's Japanese branch were more directed at Hayao Nakayama's incompetence as president. I 100% agree with this about Okawa. I believe Okawa took over for Nakayama after a failed merger with Bandai in 1997, after most of the damage had been done.

Datschge Sep 16, 2012

Actually CSK was Sega's parent company starting in 1984 and Okawa became its chairman at that time already. The more public involvement of him later was just a reflection of how badly Sega was doing on its own.

xplojin. Sep 16, 2012

GoldfishX wrote:
xplojin wrote:

why bother? a simple Google search will net you emulators and ROMs just as easily accessible, and for free.

I was assuming we were talking 100% legal methods that satisfy both the consumer and the company that is providing the entertainment. I was thinking how a post-console Nintendo would still be able to release games like Mario Kart, Smash, etc and reach a wide audience.

you do have a point. esp. when some ROMs/emulators are glitchy.

P.S. http://www.amazon.com/Sega-Genesis-Coll … words=SEGA

avatar! Sep 16, 2012

My impression is that most game revenues are due to people who play games (not necessarily hardcore gamers) as opposed to just casual gamers. For instance, if you like RPGs you might say only purchase a few games a year, but you will definitely purchase and pay full-price or nearly full-price for a good game. That said, it was my impression that the 3DS has not done well because of the lack of quality games. I think that may be changing now (at least in my opinion) but still not worth it yet (I'm waiting for Fire Emblem myself smile

Anyway, so I'm curious if anyone has statistics on this: what percentage of games are purchased by hardcore/normal/casual gamers? What percentage of revenue is produced by consoles/softwear? In this case I imagine softwear makes up basically all the profit a company receives. Also, if a 3rd party develops a game for the Wii/Xbox/PS3 what percentage does the console company receive?

Personally, I think Nintendo will do alright. Of course, I never thought Sega would be in the boat they are in now. Frankly, when was the last time Sega produced a good game? The last Sega game I played with the Genesis Collection on the PS3...

longhairmike Sep 17, 2012

did nintendo even stop to contemplate the fact that a touchscreen controller is not cheetos-friendly?

vert1 Sep 17, 2012

I make sure friends clean their hands before touching my controllers. Clean is better than dirty.

Sami Sep 19, 2012

avatar! wrote:

Frankly, when was the last time Sega produced a good game? The last Sega game I played with the Genesis Collection on the PS3...

Valkyria Chronicles on PS3, Rhythm Thief on 3DS, Sonic Colors on Wii. They still have their moments. And I've yet to play Sakura Wars on Wii, that's supposed to be good too.

Regarding emulation, I'd pay good money to have the CD-based Shining Force games on Virtual Console, or anything. It's a shame Wii U seems to be pushing Virtual Console to the side.

xplojin. Sep 19, 2012 (edited Sep 19, 2012)

Sami wrote:
avatar! wrote:

Frankly, when was the last time Sega produced a good game? The last Sega game I played with the Genesis Collection on the PS3...

It's a shame Wii U seems to be pushing Virtual Console to the side.

I noticed that, too. I guess they dint make much off of it on the Wii. are they even bothering w/ it on the Wii U? Im planning on modding my Wii, so it can use the ROMs Ive dloaded.

avatar! Sep 19, 2012

Sami wrote:
avatar! wrote:

Frankly, when was the last time Sega produced a good game? The last Sega game I played with the Genesis Collection on the PS3...

Valkyria Chronicles on PS3, Rhythm Thief on 3DS, Sonic Colors on Wii. They still have their moments. And I've yet to play Sakura Wars on Wii, that's supposed to be good too.

Regarding emulation, I'd pay good money to have the CD-based Shining Force games on Virtual Console, or anything. It's a shame Wii U seems to be pushing Virtual Console to the side.

The PS3 Genesis Collection has all the Shining games released for the Genesis, as well as the Phantasy Star games (including the first). So why would you want to pay for the Wii versions? I haven't played Valkyria Chronicles, but I heard it's great. It was also released in 2008... nearly 5 years ago. A great game every 5 years does not a winning company make. I know you mentioned 2 more games, but I'm not familiar nor have any interest in them. Even if you include them, 3 games between 2008 and now? Yeah, I think it's safe to say that the Sega that produced the golden games during the Gensis period, is totally dead.

Pellasos Sep 19, 2012

SEGA?

Yakuza is very good. Binary Domain is surprisingly good. Virtua Fighter 5 FS is very good. just to mention some recent games. SEGA is not bad, it's just that they can rarely reach casual gamers. they just get overlooked, no matter how hard they try with quality software.

Sami Sep 19, 2012

avatar! wrote:

The PS3 Genesis Collection has all the Shining games released for the Genesis, as well as the Phantasy Star games (including the first). So why would you want to pay for the Wii versions? I haven't played Valkyria Chronicles, but I heard it's great. It was also released in 2008... nearly 5 years ago. A great game every 5 years does not a winning company make. I know you mentioned 2 more games, but I'm not familiar nor have any interest in them. Even if you include them, 3 games between 2008 and now? Yeah, I think it's safe to say that the Sega that produced the golden games during the Gensis period, is totally dead.

Oh man. First you reveal you have no idea of the breadth of the Shining Force series. Then you reveal you haven't even played Valkyria Chronicles which you've heard is great, despite it being released "nearly 5 years ago" (it's still less than 4 in the US, not to mention the sequel), nor have you apparently played any other Sega games, and outright dismiss my suggestions of good ones. And to top it off, you decry Sega as "totally dead", after leaving an impression that you don't know much about their games nor have you played much of them outside a compilation disc (if that). There's just no pleasing some guys, huh? Complaining just for the sake of complaining.

avatar! Sep 19, 2012

Sami wrote:
avatar! wrote:

The PS3 Genesis Collection has all the Shining games released for the Genesis, as well as the Phantasy Star games (including the first). So why would you want to pay for the Wii versions? I haven't played Valkyria Chronicles, but I heard it's great. It was also released in 2008... nearly 5 years ago. A great game every 5 years does not a winning company make. I know you mentioned 2 more games, but I'm not familiar nor have any interest in them. Even if you include them, 3 games between 2008 and now? Yeah, I think it's safe to say that the Sega that produced the golden games during the Gensis period, is totally dead.

Oh man. First you reveal you have no idea of the breadth of the Shining Force series. Then you reveal you haven't even played Valkyria Chronicles which you've heard is great, despite it being released "nearly 5 years ago" (it's still less than 4 in the US, not to mention the sequel), nor have you apparently played any other Sega games, and outright dismiss my suggestions of good ones. And to top it off, you decry Sega as "totally dead", after leaving an impression that you don't know much about their games nor have you played much of them outside a compilation disc (if that). There's just no pleasing some guys, huh? Complaining just for the sake of complaining.

Fair points. Well, most of them anyway...
As for other Shining Force games, are you talking about the ones on the Saturn? Those were basically the last of what I consider "actual" Shining series. Oh I know there were others made, but they weren't the same thing. In fact, Sega never actually released the entire Shining Force III for North America, only the first part (which is a shame). I had hopes that at some point Sega would bother to release parts 2 and 3, but I'm fairly certain that won't happen. Yes, I am also aware of Shining Ark, which is great, and follows in the steps of Shining in the Darkness. So yeah, I have an "idea" of the breadth of the Shining series. Yup, I haven't played Valkyria Chronicles, and OK 4 years ago. Sorry, the other games you mentioned hold no interest for me. So maybe Sega isn't "totally dead", but close to it. Go to:

http://www.sega.com/games/?searchGame=&p_page=1

and you'll see that most of their games are iphone, ipad, or "classics" out for Xbox live, etc. I feel like Sega used to innovate and create such amazing worlds with classics such as Phantasy Star, Panzer Dragoon, Shining Force, etc. Now, one game (Valkyria Chronicles) in 4 years is of interest.

GoldfishX Sep 19, 2012

Actually in all fairness, Sonic Colors is supposed to be one of their best efforts over the past few years. Granted, might not be enough to save the hedgehog from a decade of pure bad, but praise has been consistent. Still, when I hear "Sega", I think of them mostly from the arcade/Genesis days (Dreamcast too, somewhat, but all the games I loved on it were 3rd party...same for Saturn, as not too much 1st party software of interest).

Amazingu Sep 19, 2012

GoldfishX wrote:

Actually in all fairness, Sonic Colors is supposed to be one of their best efforts over the past few years.

Haven't played Colors yet, but I keep hearing good things about it.
I also had a total blast with Generations, so Sonic is doing fine again as far as I'm concerned.

xplojin. Sep 19, 2012 (edited Sep 19, 2012)

Amazingu wrote:
GoldfishX wrote:

Actually in all fairness, Sonic Colors is supposed to be one of their best efforts over the past few years.

Haven't played Colors yet, but I keep hearing good things about it.
I also had a total blast with Generations, so Sonic is doing fine again as far as I'm concerned.

Sonic Colors is a really short game if you don't go for the collectibles. got decent childlike wonder out of it, but it was still shortlived. my favorite areas were Planet Wisp and the Japanese Aquarium. music's awesome.

Amazingu Sep 19, 2012

xplojin. wrote:

Sonic Colors is a really short game if you don't go for the collectibles. got decent childlike wonder out of it, but it was still shortlived. my favorite areas were Planet Wisp and the Japanese Aquarium. music's awesome.

Yeah, I guess the same goes for Generations: pretty short if you don't bother with collectibles.
But finding all of the red rings was one of the things I enjoyed most about it!

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