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Sami Sep 20, 2012

I like short games, there's room only for a few time sinks in my backlog.

I agree that Sega isn't quite what they used to be in their first party days, but the game industry is in a terrible shape right now. At least Sega still has stuff like Valkyria Chronicles and quirky quality releases like Rhythm Thief, and they're actually putting some effort in re-releasing some of their old classics. Compare that to a publisher like Konami, who have fallen so far from their previous standing that it's just sad.

There could actually be hope that Sega would release those lesser-played games like Shining Force CD and the full SF3 on digital platforms, but it sure would have helped their chances if Nintendo had announced a Wii U Virtual Console service with support for Sega CD and/or Saturn. But instead it seems that Nintendo is keeping any possible Wii U VC service under wraps for now, so there's no telling even if they will extend the available platforms from those currently available on the original Wii service. Sure, there's Steam and everything, but those just don't have a similar scope for retro games.

vert1 Sep 20, 2012 (edited Sep 20, 2012)

*Looks at first page of thread*
*Looks at second pag of the thread*

Let's get back to ranting or raving about Nintendo's new console.

Yea, I don't know about the WiiU's Virtual Console scene with Sega CD and Saturn but I wouldn't count out easy cash-ins of releasing an HD collection of the series or simple digital releases. None of this really affects me since I don't care to play rereleases -- I just play them on their original console -- unless they weren't translated.

Anyhow, Nintendo is ratcheting up the marketing campaign for this holiday season. I would recommend people buy their stock since it's rather low right now and sell it before January 2013 for an easy profit. Nintendo WiiU has been selling out on online store pre-orders. Here is some news on holiday stuff that perhaps you've already seen:

Nintendo WiiU makes ToysRUs Hot Toy List (15 hottest toys of the season)
source: http://www.toysrus.com/shop/index.jsp?c … toys:91911

Nintendo WiiU Burger King toys coming soon
source: http://www.bkcrown.com/Toys/Default.aspx

avatar! Oct 16, 2012

I just heard that the Wii U is region locked. Once again, a stupid move by Nintendo. While other companies are making their systems region free, Nintendo insists on archaic self-control which ultimately just hurts game sales and annoys the consumer.

xplojin. Oct 16, 2012 (edited Oct 16, 2012)

avatar! wrote:

I just heard that the Wii U is region locked. Once again, a stupid move by Nintendo. While other companies are making their systems region free, Nintendo insists on archaic self-control which ultimately just hurts game sales and annoys the consumer.

it's easy to soft mod the Wii so you can play titles not native to the system's region. I did it. tutorials are all over YouTube on how to do it. there are a myriad websites dedicated to the topic. you just have to free your mind and be resourceful.

Sami Oct 17, 2012

avatar! wrote:

I just heard that the Wii U is region locked. Once again, a stupid move by Nintendo. While other companies are making their systems region free, Nintendo insists on archaic self-control which ultimately just hurts game sales and annoys the consumer.

That's the least of their worries. If things go really badly, the Wii U could be a Gamecube-level clusterfuck for them, and they might not even see it.

Datschge Oct 17, 2012

I'm just not seeing Nintendo and Wii U doing bad. Most of such comments are uninformed (if serious) and should be seen as part of the "Nintendo going 3rd party" meme.

That said the Wii U being region locked (which is confirmed and not all too surprising unfortunately) is the single decisive reason for me to not buy it (same for 3DS) at least until that's broken (which may never happen).

Qui-Gon Joe Oct 17, 2012

Sami wrote:

That's the least of their worries. If things go really badly, the Wii U could be a Gamecube-level clusterfuck for them, and they might not even see it.

So around 30 million sold and a solid profit margin the whole generation?  Yeah, that would really suck for them.  tongue

GoldfishX Oct 17, 2012

Will Wii U be sold at a loss? I believe Nintendo has always sold its' hardware either at cost or for a profit.

I would consider a 3rd party Nintendo to be more of a sound business decision than a meme, personally. At least, if the finances made sense and they couldn't turn a profit on the hardware (ala the first Xbox). Think about it this way: They would do much better than Sony or Microsoft as 3rd party developers!

Cedille Oct 17, 2012

GoldfishX wrote:

Will Wii U be sold at a loss? I believe Nintendo has always sold its' hardware either at cost or for a profit.

The discounted 3DS has been sold at a loss.

Amazingu Oct 18, 2012

vert1 wrote:

Has anyone here pre-ordered it or anything yet?

*Raises hand*

Didn't even mean to, I just found myself at the local game store on the first day of preorders, and no one seemed to be lining up, so I just went for it.
It launches with a new Mario and a Monster Hunter game over here, so I'm expecting it to sell like hotcakes.

Like I said, no one was lining up for preorders though, so maybe there is very little interest for the Wii U so far.

vert1 Oct 18, 2012

I remember when we used to look in envy at Japan pre-order lines when we waited for the console to get here. In the US we're being flooded with campaign ads so I haven't seen anything for WiiU yet. I'm still pissed Europe gets the ZombiU bundle.

Adam Corn Oct 18, 2012

Whether you consider the Gamecube a success or not I very much think sales for the Wii U are going to be at about the same level, maybe even less.  As opposed to the Wii I don't think the hardware gimmick for the U is going to strike a chord with most consumers, and I think we're at the point where even in Japan competition from iOS devices is going to take its toll.  And with only a slight bump in specs from current generation consoles, most hardcore gamers are probably going to be content to wait and see what Sony and Microsoft's next consoles have to offer, which will likely be considerably more.

On a personal level I am tired of seeing Nintendo recycle the same franchises over and over while only occasionally offering something new and exciting over previous iterations, making this the first Nintendo console ever I have no intention of buying.

Zane Oct 18, 2012

I think the original Wii was the first console that really bridged different generations of gamers successfully (and I use that term loosely). It's the only console I can think of that could potentially interest young dudes, old ladies, parents and kids, etc., on a widespread level. If that console didn't have the interactive peripherals, like the Wiimote/Nunchuck and the Balance Board, there's no way it would have sold as well as it did. Now with the WiiU it looks like Nintendo is trying to mix in gimmick gameplay from the Wii, tablet interaction with the control (a la iPad), and are trying to bridge the gap to the more serious gamers that have been playing Sony and Microsoft consoles for the past decade. In the meantime, they're still milking franchises and are giving people the same shit over and over again in new cases. (The fact that they still have the balls to call New Super Mario Bros. "new" is beyond me.) I just don't think it's going to work on the level that they expect. Unless it truly turns out to be a killer piece of hardware, I feel that Nintendo is going to fall right on their faces (or asses) with this one, and it's going to be very hard for them to get back up afterward,

avatar! Oct 18, 2012 (edited Oct 18, 2012)

The Wii U has sold out online basically everywhere. Both models.
Also, I have to admit it's launch titles are impressive. Lots of diversity, many popular "enhanced" titles such as Arkham City. I actually think the system has the potential to do quite well. When Super Mario Galaxy 3 is released, I bet most of you will want to play it!

That said, I'm still pissed about Nintendo keeping the system region-locked. I hope they correct this error, but then again, Nintendo is stupid in some ways. For instance, will the next Zelda game be a non-talker yet again? If so, then I think Nintendo has a good chance of blowing it. I think the reason the 3ds has not sold well is because of the lack of good games. There's still only one game I currently want to play on the 3ds, and it's not enough to make me purchase the system, although that may change. Anyway, those are my thoughts!

By the way, here is the best trailer to a Wii U game that sadly does not exist!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqdwT2pKYzY

Sami Oct 18, 2012

Qui-Gon Joe wrote:

So around 30 million sold and a solid profit margin the whole generation?  Yeah, that would really suck for them.  tongue

Check your data. It eked out just barely over 20 million, and it was the GBA that kept Nintendo profitable during those years, the Gamecube was causing losses. The stakes are higher now, sure Nintendo could burn through a few billion if things go badly but there's no way that wouldn't "really suck for them".

I don't honestly believe the Wii U will do as badly as the Gamecube, that would be the absolute worst-case scenario. But there are some elements to the Wii U that could lead to a lacklustre performance, and to a poorer game selection than what the Wii had. But it's all speculation at this point, with a lot we just don't know yet, like what games are coming after the "launch window". It could turn out well too, but as they say, "hope for the best, expect the worst".

avatar! Oct 18, 2012

Sami wrote:

I don't honestly believe the Wii U will do as badly as the Gamecube, that would be the absolute worst-case scenario.

Oh yeah, what about the Virtual Boy tongue

Qui-Gon Joe Oct 18, 2012

Sami wrote:

Check your data. It eked out just barely over 20 million, and it was the GBA that kept Nintendo profitable during those years, the Gamecube was causing losses.

Oops - you're totally right.  I had just read an article about how the Gamecube and Xbox were neck-and-neck within a couple million and for some reason thought it was 31-ish vs. 34-ish but it's actually 24-ish vs. 34-ish.  Still have never seen any evidence that Nintendo LOST money on the cube, though, as if I remember correctly they never sold it at a loss.

Virtual Boy is another matter entirely.  If this turns out like that, it could totally sink the company.  Oh well... I'm still in the "any console with games I want to play is worth owning and not hating on via the internet" camp so even if it never gets past the currently announced exclusives I'll be good to go!

Sami Oct 19, 2012 (edited Oct 19, 2012)

If the Wii U got nothing but those games in the launch window, or only more games like those, it would be a very sorry console indeed for me.

A lot of the reports and news from the Gamecube era have already been lost to the depths of the internet, but it was constantly sold at a loss:

2001: "In the GameCube business, industry specialists estimate the company will lose 5,000-10,000 ($41 to $83) yen per console, each carrying a 25,000 yen ($208.3) price tag in Japan and $199 in the US, at least for the first year."

http://forums.wireplay.co.uk/showthread … 41-83-loss

2004: "Nintendo is currently losing ¥20 billion ($180.8m) each year on Nintendo hardware, but this loss will be reduced by reusing the production plants for next generation hardware."

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_i … IELHLTM3EI

The GBA was offsetting the losses Nintendo was making on the Gamecube.

2003: "While Nintendo's GameCube console has under-performed saleswise, the Japanese company has still posted a healthy profit for the past quarter, thanks chiefly to sales of the GBA and its software."

http://www.expertreviews.co.uk/general/ … -in-profit

vert1 Oct 19, 2012 (edited Oct 19, 2012)

That first link is speculative. It "estimates" a loss. Check the date and you'll see it's 4 months before the console even launched. Nintendo eventually sold Gamecube at a loss but that was much later on in the console's life.

-edit-
Correction: Actually it seems Gamecube was sold at a loss initially at launch and then broke even.

RickPowers wrote:

Gamecube console, profit from day one?
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2003, 02:32:47 AM »
While I can't give you exact information (Nintendo doesn't release those figures), GameCube is the first console that Nintendo lost money on at launch.  However, that loss per console was in the SINGLE DIGITS, and they had reached break-even by March of that year.  All of Nintendo's other consoles made money at launch, usually also in the single digits.

Both Sony and Microsoft lost significant money on their consoles at their respective launches, and while Sony should be making money on PS2 at this point, Microsoft is still losing significant money on each and every Xbox sold.

I gotta look up more information on this from archives. There were always specific numbers on how much money MS lost per XBOX sale and I thought that was the same with profit on Gamecube. I can't seem to find anything on overall profit for Gamecube hardware or Gamecube software or altogether profit.

It was Nintendo's Gamecube software sales that really made the money as they remained at $50 for very long times: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_be … ideo_games

But according to the logic of doomsayers XBOX1 and PS3 profits should cause Sony and Microsoft to go third party. Nintendo has always had a sound business model. The WiiU is continuing this all-in-one crap that I don't like but makes consoles such successes (i.e. DVD in PS2). To me I don't have anything to worry about since I look at things from a software standpoint and WiiU already has P-100, Bayonetta2, and Pikmin 3 which makes it much more interesting than Wii. So I'm actually fairly optimistic that WiiU will have a much better software showing than Wii.

Sami Oct 19, 2012

vert1 wrote:

That first link is speculative. It "estimates" a loss. Check the date and you'll see it's 4 months before the console even launched. Nintendo eventually sold Gamecube at a loss but that was much later on in the console's life.

-edit-
Correction: Actually it seems Gamecube was sold at a loss initially at launch and then broke even.

Yes, it's an estimate, but the news report from 2004 provides the important data: the Gamecube was causing losses yearly, not just during that one period of time. And why would it? While the Gamecube had drastic price cuts during its lifetime, the production costs were also gradually lowered during that timeline. The information we can deduce from this is that Gamecube was a constant "loss-leader" (and the term "leader" is highly ironic here). The people just weren't buying the 'Cubes, because the game selection just wasn't up to snuff. And if the Wii U's game selection doesn't improve after the "launch window", the people won't buy the Wii U either.

vert1 Oct 19, 2012 (edited Oct 19, 2012)

http://www.the-magicbox.com/forums/show … php?t=9151
-fun to pull up old forum posts where people responded to that 2004 news (I'm on the second page and then the thread just goes off-topic)

Game selection barely matters. If that was true Dreamcast would have wiped the floor against PS2's laughable launch window games. But PS2 had a DVD player!! Wii didn't even have any good Wii games at launch (they had to steal Twilight Princess, a Gamecube game) and it sold because swinging controllers around in mini-games appeals to those enlightened gamers who didn't buy Gamecube because of its poor game selection. *rolleyes* It's all about marketing.

Gamecube had plenty of great games compared to XBOX. It didn't sell primarily because of the negative press and its marketing.

GoldfishX Oct 20, 2012

Gamecube's problem was that Iwata legitimately believed hooking your GBA up to your Gamecube to play multi-player games was a counter to the online capabilities of Xbox and Halo 2 (no one can dispute this was a major release for Microsoft). They tried to run with that through the 2004 Christmas season (even with a frighteningly 16-bit looking Zelda game as a major showcase title) and when it (thankfully) failed, Gamecube games slowed to a near-halt. Was like Nintendo didn't have a back-up plan to the GBA connectivity thing and is like they just abandoned the console for a nearly two year period, after the 2004 holiday season and gave that #2 spot to Microsoft. Offhand, the only major releases I remember for GC post-2004 were the new Fire Emblem, another Mario Party and the GC version of Twilight Princess (don't remember if the DK Bongo game came out before or after 2004, but it was somewhere around that time period). Maybe Prime 2?

vert1 Oct 20, 2012 (edited Oct 20, 2012)

Yea it was a big fanboy holiday fest of Prime 2 versus Halo 2. While they're both different experiences Halo 2 was a mess when it came out and was eventually fixed/patched. Resident Evil 4 came out Jan 11th 2005. Jungle Beat came out Dec 2004 in Japan and 2005 everywhere else. Strikers came out 2005.

Do you have a quote from Iwata about the GBA being the answer to XBOX online? I feel like I've asked you this before. I also feel like I've written a couple posts elsewhere and am just repeating myself. I remember the motto was that playing with friends in the same room was a better multi-player experience.

Qui-Gon Joe Oct 20, 2012

vert1 wrote:

I remember the motto was that playing with friends in the same room was a better multi-player experience.

This has consistently been true for me throughout the last couple generations.  My friends and I have sunk FAR more time into the likes of Crystal Chronicles, Four Swords Adventures, and New Super Mario Bros. Wii than into any online games.  Over the 5 years that I've had a 360, I've been a Gold member for 24 months and played games online a grand total of two times, I think?  Granted, I TOTALLY UNDERSTAND why ignoring online was a bad business decision for Nintendo.  I just happen to agree with them on it.  Kind of like how two of my favorite Gamecube games (post-2004, even!) are Chibi Robo and Baten Kaitos II, neither of which would really be considered a "major" release to the general population.

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