Soundtrack Central The best of VGM and other great soundtracks

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Nekobo Jun 22, 2008

Finished it earlier this week. Man, what a rush. The sheer amount of nostalgia is staggering. Surprisingly, I didn't mind the absence of the classic MGS theme. The Old Snake and Love Theme are just that awesome. They have this...gravity about them. Good stuff.

The only part I didn't like was the beginning of Act III...and the constant flurry of cinematics in the final Acts. I started rolling my eyes at how long the epilogue dragged on. But I suppose a long winded closure is better than none. I was also hoping Nastasha would make a cameo, too.

I'd rank it just a hair right behind the original MGS. Can't top the original's awesome cast. If the BB Corp bosses were a little more interesting personality wise, hmm. Can't believe it's been almost 10 years since it came out.

Oh, and I think I'm in love with Laughing Beauty. <3

Time to start am Extreme run. y00ts

SonicPanda Jun 22, 2008

Nekobo wrote:

The only part I didn't like was the beginning of Act III...

This is the bit where you have to tail the whistling jackass to the Resistance, right? That part's driving me crazy right now. I've gotten to the point where he changes into the PMC uniform but I get screwed when the vehicle troops show up and wake up the guys I tranqed before, leading to a cluster attack that's almost instantly deadly. I'm convinced the jerk doubles back over that ground just to screw me over.

Oh, on a related note, I made my first major purchase from the shop: A missile launcher. I'd tranqed a herd of PMCs after triggering an alert, but the damned searchlighting helicopter wouldn't leave.

*fwoosh*

BOOM!

Which led to a pretty funny moment - some of the guys waking up, saying 'I heard an explosion' as the chopper continues to detonate over their heads. Fun.

But yeah, damn this stupid Resistance doofus and his whistle that melodically matches Sunny's songs. *mysterious music*

XLord007 Jun 23, 2008

Ok... Metal Gear Solid 4.  The culimination of Metal Gear's 100+ year storyline, seven canon games, and nearly two decades of Kojima's life.  Since MGS1 made this series cinematic, gameplay has always been the series' weak spot.  That said, it has evolved consistently from MGS1 to MGS2 to MGS3 to MGS4.

From a gameplay standpoint, MGS4 is a brilliant evolution.  The problem here is that the player never really needs to use the new gameplay elements to their full extent.  Only during Act 1 did I ever feel that I was being challenged to use the new gameplay systems.  Once you get the Solid Eye and the Mk22, you can comfortably revert back to everything you've done since MGS2.  Although the beginning of Act 1 was a brutal adjustment, I loved how it forced me to adapt and learn new ways to play MGS.  I was pretty disappointed that, upon arriving in Act 2, I could play the game almost exactly as I played MGS3 and forget everything I learned in Act 1 (except for one very important thing: Always help the rebels!

I also really like how Konami has added lots of little gameplay surprises to mix things up this time around.  For example, the tracking segments in Act 2 and the follow-the-spy segment from Act 3 both delighted, though the former's impact is greatly reduced if you're an item collecting nut like myself and insist on exploring everything.  The farther I got into this game, the more I realized that this game is much more fun if you play it like it's a movie and stop trying to make it be a game (stop worrying about collecting and customizing and just get out there and do your thing... it's actually easier if you follow this mantra too).  Additionally, I strongly disagree with Jay about the rail sections.  I loved them in MGS3 and I love them here as well.  They increase tension and keep the cinematic feel flowing fast and hard.

For an MGS diehard, I will now say something that I'm sure other MGS fans will take issue with: boss fights in MGS games suck.  They do.  The gameplay and controls are always horribly suited to these encounters and this problem has been present in every single MGS game.  These fights are lengthy, frustrating, obtuse, annoying, and more than anything, cruelly remind you that the fantastic experience you're having still clings to its 1980s gameplay roots.  From a gameplay standpoint, the boss fights are by far the least enjoyable parts of MGS4.  In fact, I can honestly say that the only boss fight I actually enjoyed in MGS4 was the cathartic final fist fight.

Unfortunately, my disappointment with boss the fights extends beyond their gameplay.  MGS1 still stands head and shoulders above the others in terms of bosses for the simple reason that the bosses in MGS1 have personality, history, and pathos.  You really like these guys and defeating them means something, however irritating the actual process of doing that may be.  Each successive MGS title has made bosses less significant.  The grotesque Dead Cell members have some story behind them, but they're never fleshed out the way FOXHOUND is in MGS1.  MGS3's Cobra Unit is barely detailed at all, and MGS4's pitiful B&B Corps is completely wasted.  All you get about them are very barebones after-the-fact recaps from Drebin, making them completely meaningless.  They have no bearing on the story whatsoever and serve to be mere obstacles.

Like Angela, I feel that the introduction of the customization and Drebin points system should have brought a better save system with it.  It's quite frustrating to have to reconfigure everything back to the way you want it if you die before reaching a new checkpoint.  This is particularly problematic in the early parts of the game where checkpoints don't come as frequently as they do later in the game.

I like the Drebin point system and the function it serves -- the economic implications and how they dovetail with the story are particularly clever.  That said, the need for this system completely dissolves after the second act, as does most of the related gameplay, so it almost seems silly that this game has such an enormous arsenal of weapons that only completists will ever use.  Still, it's a neat little system, certainly more practical than the tiresome eating and healing systems introduced by, and thankfully discarded after, MGS3.

One particular gameplay element I felt was somewhat underdeveloped was the affinity system.  There are some really cool things you can do with this system, particularly in Act 2, and I would have liked it if said system hadn't been abandoned after Act 2.  It also would have been nice if the game itself would have been less vague on how to benefit from this system.  I have most of my knowledge of its workings from the extremely well written strategy guide, and it's a shame that Otacon doesn't give you better guidance as to how to employ it.

To condense the gamplay as I was playing the game, I began to get the impression that, with the exception of Act 3's unique gameplay motif, each act evoked a different MGS game:

Act 1: For me, this really felt like MGS4.  You're forced to adapt to a very different kind of MGS experience, and only this act showcased the "No Place to Hide" tagline that Kojima promoted so heavily.

Act 2: This act is clearly MGS3.  Aside from the very cool PMC vs. rebel stuff, the level design and gameplay structure is straight out of MGS3's outdoor sections.

Act 3: As mentioned earlier, the central part of this didn't really feel like any previous MGS game, but I thoroughly enjoyed it.  In fact, when I first received control of the trench-coat wearing youthful Snake, I immediately began humming the first few bars of "Minnie the Moocher."  Don't really know why, but I was having a blast, either way.

Act 4: This evokes MGS1 not just for the obvious reason, but also because this part of the game brings back some of the more careful timed "look before you leap" gameplay elements from MGS1 and MGS2.

Act 5: The final act brought back memories of MGS2 for a couple reasons, the most prominent of which is that it features very little gameplay and a lot of story.  It also reminds me of MGS2 simply because it is set on a ship, has one of those damn doors you have to jam the triangle button to open, has a boss fight where you do a lot of shooting (the Frog Battle and Screaming Mantis fights reminded me of the Vamp fight from MGS2), and has you trying to complete basically the same objective as you did in MGS2.

Still here?  Good.  Now let's talk story.  First, I'm immeasurably pleased that this game finally, FINALLY, ties up the clusterfuck that was MGS2's storyline.  One wonders what this could have been had MGS2's storyline not been absolutely ridiculous.  It's kind of a shame that Kojima had to make an entire game with a huge amount of ret-conning over the entire series just to explain what happened in MGS2, but I will give him credit for his dedication to seeing this through and finishing it, however overly complicated, dragged out, and downright incredulous some of what happens in this game is.  I would love nothing more than for this to truly be the end of it, but some of Ryan Payton's comments leave me fearing that they aren't going to truly let this arc go yet.  I say LET IT GO.  Move on.  Make the next MGS have nothing to do with this arc.  Please?

As a side note, if you want to actually understand everything that happens in this game and how this game ties everything together, I second Angela's sentiment that you should absolutely read the wonderful synopsis and interpretation that is included at the end of the strategy guide (but only after you've finished the game, of course).  While you may (like me) not agree that the level of complexity that Kojima has woven into this massive conclusion is necessary, at least you will learn exactly how it's supposed to fit together.

So, while the preceding 1,383 words have been largely critical, I have to say that they leave one critical component out.  And that is that all four of the main MGS games are more than games.  They are experiences.  They achieve what the game industry completely failed to do in the early 1990s: successfully blend movies and games.  The MGS series achieves this spectacularly, and MGS4 is no exception.  All four games are amazing experiences, and should not be missed.  It is for this reason that despite all of the above, I enjoyed nearly every minute of MGS4 (with the notable exception of the extremely cheap Vamp fight... my friends tell me that Campbell will call in and tell you what you have to do, but this never happened during my play through and I had to use the guide to know how to beat him).  Was it worth the $530 (tax inc.) less the free $100 Wal-Mart gift card?  I don't know that I'd go that far, but it was great fun and, for the last week, I was Solid Snake.


And now, the requisite series rankings.  Only MGS1-4 are considered.

Best Story
01. MGS1
02. MGS3
03. MGS4
04. MGS2

Best Gameplay
01. MGS4
02. MGS3
03. MGS2
04. MGS1

Best Overall
01. MGS3
02. MGS4
03. MGS1
04. MGS2

Jay Jun 23, 2008

Ooh! Rankings! I think you're right to split it like you did. So here's mine -

Best Story
MGS1
MGS3
MGS4
MGS2

Although should it be split further because the characters rather than plot are why I rate MGS3 over 4?

Best Gameplay
MGS2
MGS1
MGS4
MGS3

Best Overall
MGS1
MGS2
MGS3
MGS4

I think... I can't decide 100% on the last category. Honourable mentions to the two (seemingly non-canon) Acid games, which I think are great.

I dug out an old copy of MGS1 at the weekend and I'm going to replay it. Will be interesting to see if it holds up in my rankings or if I'm clouded by nostalgia. I remember watching an episode of ALF as an adult a while back - didn't even crack a smile. I was very disappointed. But then there was V, which was every bit as good as I remembered it. So, which will it be - ALF or V?

Zane Jun 23, 2008

I'm replaying the first MGS now, and I'm fresh off the cusp of my third MGS3 playthrough. I'm really enjoying MGS for its story, but the gameplay doesn't hold up too well for me. I spend more time looking at the radar than I do the screen, which is pretty much the exact opposite of how MGS3 plays. I really, really like MGS3. Like, a lot. Tons. Oodles. While MGS is still one of my favorite games ever, I'm going to have to say that I prefer MGS3 (Subsistence) right now. That game is friggin' incredible.

Shoe Jun 23, 2008

MGS1 gets the award for best location/setting/dark ambience.

Angela Jun 23, 2008

XLord007 wrote:

And that is that all four of the main MGS games are more than games.  They are experiences.  They achieve what the game industry completely failed to do in the early 1990s: successfully blend movies and games.  The MGS series achieves this spectacularly, and MGS4 is no exception.  All four games are amazing experiences, and should not be missed.

Well put, indeed.  It's for that reason that I hesitate ranking them in order of preference, since I pretty much liked them all.  (Fancy that, eh?)   However, I think I can at least state a clear winner in the field of gameplay - and that's MGS2.  They just seemed to nail it absolutely correct as far as refining and perfecting the controls from MGS1.  The restrictions of the top-down viewing allowed for really tight mechanics that still hold up unbelievably well today.  Collision is razor sharp, while features like corner view, pop-out shots, and auto-aim -- features that have become more and more rubbish as the series went on -- are dead-on accurate here.  Best of all, there's little to zero in the way of having to jump into a menu every five fraggin' minutes. 

It's just a shame that the game itself didn't allow for the gameplay to fully nourish - but then Substance came along, and remedied that.

Nekobo Jun 23, 2008

After reading this thread, now I'm torn whether to replay Sons of Liberty or Subsistence next.

It's been years since I've played MGS2...and I sorta zombied my way through MGS3 (had some personal issues then, blargh). Which one is more appropriate after playing MGS4?

SonicPanda Jun 24, 2008 (edited Jun 24, 2008)

Nekobo wrote:

After reading this thread, now I'm torn whether to replay Sons of Liberty or Subsistence next.

It's been years since I've played MGS2...and I sorta zombied my way through MGS3 (had some personal issues then, blargh). Which one is more appropriate after playing MGS4?

I'd say if you plan on going through the series by its internal timeline, start with MGS3 and work your way forward. Or if you haven't played it, dig up the Game Boy alternate-story entry, it's great.

For my part, I wrapped up Act 3. Spoilers ho!

Finally got past the tail-the-dumbass-who walks-past-the-armed-vehicle bit the same way I got past the helicopter - missile launcher. Blowing it up set off alarms, of course, but since it killed them all instantaneously (BWA HA HA), I didn't have to worry. Even though the whistling boy got spooked and ran, it was only for about 15 seconds, and then he went back, whistling past the smoking ruin like it wasn't there.
Tangent time: with all due respect to Amazingu's sentiments and those like it that the Metal Gear series fails on its attempts at stealth-based gameplay, I say...of course it does. Even at their most intelligent, the guards are morons. But that's exactly why I enjoy playing Metal Gear games whereas I couldn't be bothered with freaking Splinter Cell for more than a half-hour (well, in addition to the dull characters and obnoxious controls, but staying on point...). I suck at this stuff. I love it, but suck at it, and I appreciate the designers compensating, even ten years past MGS1, for the fact that some of us love the games dearly even though we'll never rightly get the hang of them. My family feels this way, too - the addition of the EZ Gun made MGS3 accessible to my sister, and it's her favorite in the series now.

Mama's conversation was full of stuff, much of which I'd pieced together after watching Portable Ops. The one thing that took me somewhat by surprise was that Para-Medic was Dr. Clark. Wasn't Clark described as a 'he' in MGS1?

Thanks for the chase tip, Angela. It helped loads. I didn't use any curatives on that part whatsoever. A good thing, too, since Raven was such a BITCH. I finally got the drop on her by, again, whipping out the missile launcher and going to town (and again, BWA HA HA). Tranqed her in the end, so now I have her face, too. I feel pretty.

Last series of cutscenes there was a bit of a bloodbath, wasn't it? I'd guessed Mama wasn't going to be around for long anyway, but I'd figured that the Body would at least make it, story-wise, to the final act. Kind of an ignoble end, I must say. Liquid's finger-gun games were a hoot though. I'll never look at Taxi Driver the same way again.

P.S. Naomi still sucks.

*whew* Dunno when I'll get into Act 4. Baby Kate's coming on Friday and there's preparations yet to be done. But it'll be interesting to see what comes next.

EDIT: Speling errer.

Jay Jun 24, 2008

Just on the gender thing, SonicPanda, apparently the JP version of MGS1 had the mention of that character gender neutral and it was a translation error. So says the internet anyway, as I asked the same question.

Angela Jun 24, 2008 (edited Jun 24, 2008)

Nekobo wrote:

I was also hoping Nastasha would make a cameo, too.

Yeah, it's disappointing that she couldn't join this MGS all-star cast.  But I am glad that they acknowledge her in that one codec conversation in Act 4.   Look out for it next time if you haven't yet heard it.

Jay wrote:

Just on the gender thing, SonicPanda, apparently the JP version of MGS1 had the mention of that character gender neutral and it was a translation error. So says the internet anyway, as I asked the same question.

Anyone checked out Konami's MGS Database available for download on the PSN Store?  They have a startingly detailed glossary, covering everything from Apoptosis to Zanzibarland.  Regarding the gender, the database states that..... Dr. Clark deliberately kept a low profile, and that Naomi hadn't even met her before.  That's where her confusion stemmed from, and she just assumed that Clark was a "he".....

Sounds like a sketchy bit of rationalization, but at least they were acute enough to address the discrepancy.

As for the rest of your Act 3 story impressions, Sonic -- you'd do well to remember that assumptions should never be tossed around in a MGS game until it's all over. ;)   And I hope you'll enjoy Act 4.  Here's another pro-tip: explore every single nook and cranny, and hit up every codec conversation.  That's the only way to get the full experience out of this particular act.

SonicPanda Jun 25, 2008

XLord007 wrote:

Yahtzee weighs in on MGS4

You know, I've never understood what makes this guy's reviews popular. Is it the language? Really? I dunno, sometimes I agree with him, sometimes not, but I don't know what really makes his proclamations more special than any other jerk with a blog.

P.S. Act 4 this Saturday!...maybe.

Angela Jun 26, 2008

SonicPanda wrote:

You know, I've never understood what makes this guy's reviews popular. Is it the language? Really? I dunno, sometimes I agree with him, sometimes not, but I don't know what really makes his proclamations more special than any other jerk with a blog..

I giggled at his comment and visual interpretation of "the fans."  So, which one of his window should *I* break?

His GTAIV and No More Heroes reviews are definitely amusing watches.

Angela Jun 26, 2008

Jay wrote:

He went very easy on Half Life 2 though.

Call of Duty 4 as well.  But damned if COD4 doesn't deserve the praise.

XLord007 Jun 26, 2008

SonicPanda wrote:

You know, I've never understood what makes this guy's reviews popular. Is it the language? Really? I dunno, sometimes I agree with him, sometimes not, but I don't know what really makes his proclamations more special than any other jerk with a blog.

He's so popular because, even if they are exaggerated for the sake of humor, the core of his criticisms are dead on.  Add in his hilarious analogies, cool sight gags, and breakneck pacing, and you've got a winner.  Note that many have tried to imitate him and none have succeeded.  What's especially amazing is how he manages to keep these fresh every week.

Nekobo Jun 27, 2008

Angela wrote:
SonicPanda wrote:

You know, I've never understood what makes this guy's reviews popular. Is it the language? Really? I dunno, sometimes I agree with him, sometimes not, but I don't know what really makes his proclamations more special than any other jerk with a blog..

I giggled at his comment and visual interpretation of "the fans."  So, which one of his window should *I* break?

His GTAIV and No More Heroes reviews are definitely amusing watches.

Haha, yeah, I loved his No More Heroes review. I, too, thought Killer 7 was f-ing awesome.

Sadly, his MGS4 review isn't as entertaining as his other ones. I did laugh the part when he showed that codec shot of Raiden and Rose ("Not these cunts again").

Amazingu Jun 27, 2008

Angela wrote:
Jay wrote:

He went very easy on Half Life 2 though.

Call of Duty 4 as well.  But damned if COD4 doesn't deserve the praise.

Damned if HL2 doesn't either.

SonicPanda Jul 1, 2008 (edited Jul 1, 2008)

Okaaaayy...Act 4. Well, most of it. NV spoiler-vision on!

The Mission Briefing for this one gave me my first pure not-even-laughing eyeroll session of the game thus far. A worldwide cease-fire? Every nuke has been replaced with a locked one? Putting aside the idea that people might have vintage unlocked weaponry in their possession - like Ocelot, for crying out loud - there's a few things wrong here, including

A. those who hate each other enough to kill would not simply wait for their guns to turn back on - they would pick up knives.
B. MGS1 went to great lengths to detail how there's too many nukes and not yet the time and resources dedicated to proper disposal. But now EVERY warhead is a controlled one? They disposed of ALL the others in the nine years since? What about MUF?

I understand this is a simplification for plotting's sake, and it's people like me who take all the fun out of movies, and blah blah blah, but still. It bugs me.

Anyway, the Act itself. Prologue was a genius touch, and it was fun to, once again, trick a guy into following my footprints while I dented the back of his head wit' me fisks. Walking onto the facility with the music at my back and voices in my ears was really quite touching (a pity they used the Twin Snakes voicings, though). The recreation of the surveillance camera moment and its sad followup might be the most affecting moment in the game so far.

Mini-Gekkos, or Scarabs, or whatever they are, suck. There's too goddamned many of them in any given room, and Drebin can't sell me Chaffs. Bastards, all of them.

The 'dead' Gekko made me jump in an embarassing way, but me and Little John (named my trusty missile launcher, you see...What? It's normal!) have got those suckers dead to rights now.

Speaking of Gekkos, the distract-the-Gekko bit irritated me more than it should (why is it invincibllllle!), but I was amused to see when it fries the Mk. III, the memory flashes that go with the Game Over are all from the device's memory, not Snake's.

Lying down on the formerly electrified floor game me the awesomest Camo pattern ever - Prison Inmate Snake. White and black alternating horizontal bars. You better believe I registered it.

Crying Wolf was kind of a letdown, honestly. The only MGS4 trailer I'd watched leading up to its release was the B&B snippet, and she looked like she was going to be the toughest nut. But the first thing I tried worked like a charm - crawl under the nearby tank, wait with the sniper rifle and Night Vision, and occasionally pick off any Frogs that get too close. From my shelter, few if any attacks hit me, and even when they did, my psyche was so comfortable my health restored in seconds. She would up being the easiest fight in any MGS game, ever. A pity. But f--- YES RAIL GUN! Fortune can go blow it out her ass! Wooooo!

Glad to know the dogs are OK. It's weird to realize I actually had wondered about them myself. Such a small detail, but so effective.

The disc-switching bit was fun. In fact, a lot of Otacon's discussion bits were amusing (but his high point will always be his fractured philosophy bits from MGS2), though I did wish there were more calling options and people to talk to. Certainly Campbell could use more color and definition this time around, rather than just, 'oh yeah, and I'm a lech.'

Vamp fight was fun actually, and I did figure it out on my own,honest. I'm just not telling how long it took to do so. The following battle was pretty good too, and a cool idea, although I was a bit panicky about missing a Gekko and didn't see most of what was going on off to the right. Perhaps when I watch my kin play through.

Goodbye Naomi, you stupid hypocrite, and don't let the door hit you on the way out! Seriously though, I'm starting to get a bit annoyed by the fatalistic tone of the narrative. Yes, I have a good idea of how this'll turn out, but to hear nearly every character in the game talk about death like it's either the only valid release from one's problems and/or the reward for a job well done...dammit, get these people some uppers. Up to this point, the message of MGS has seemed to me to be that you can be screwed by politicians, the media, even your own family, but they only win if you give in. MGS4 seems to be asking, 'so why haven't you killed yourself yet?'

Got to romp around a little bit with Rexy (man he controls awkwardly), and...

...and that's about it. I got interrupted at that point, saved-and-quit, and haven't had a proper shot at the system since then. Wednesday, maybe.
I hope this post hasn't seemed too negative, Act 4 has really had some of the best moments so far. It's just the narrative quirks I mentioned above that are starting to bring me down a bit. Sorry.

EDIT: Typos fixed. New keyboard's kind of lousy.

Angela Jul 1, 2008

SonicPanda wrote:

Walking onto the facility with the music at my back and voices in my ears was really quite touching (a pity they used the Twin Snakes voicings, though). The recreation of the surveillance camera moment and its sad followup might be the most affecting moment in the game so far.

Glad I wasn't the only one who noticed that they were using Twin Snakes' voice set rather than original.  I can understand them using it in lieu of them dropping Naomi and Mei Ling's accents from the original, but it's off-putting to the fans who have the original game's performances tatooed in their minds.  I still find Rob Paulsen's voice as the Cyborg Ninja completely jarring.

And man, I love that surveillance camera moment.  Coupled with The Best Is Yet To Come, it really drives the isolation factor home.  Ah, to remember the time when Shadow Moses was alive and bustling.....

SonicPanda wrote:

Mini-Gekkos, or Scarabs, or whatever they are, suck. There's too goddamned many of them in any given room, and Drebin can't sell me Chaffs. Bastards, all of them.

Mobile surveillance..... they're a bitch, no?  Far as I'm aware, there are only two Chaff grenades available in the entire game, and they're only obtainable in Act 2.  Guess they did it that way because they'd know the player would abuse the hell out of them - especially in this part of the game, where your enemies are entirely unmanned machines.  Subsequent playthroughs has proven that destroying them - each and every one of 'em - is the way to go.  Contrary to belief, they actually don't re-spawn endlessly, as there is a set number of them in each given area.

SonicPanda wrote:

The 'dead' Gekko made me jump in an embarassing way, but me and Little John (named my trusty missile launcher, you see...What? It's normal!) have got those suckers dead to rights now.

I certainly shared Snake's heart-attack sentiment.  I knew something was fishy about that lump o' metal, so I used the Mk.III to scout it out - and I got an in-your-face viewing of the wake-up.  Good times.

And the name Little John...... that's a fascinating coincidence that's perhaps way too close for comfort.  You'll see.

SonicPanda wrote:

Speaking of Gekkos, the distract-the-Gekko bit irritated me more than it should (why is it invincibllllle!), but I was amused to see when it fries the Mk. III, the memory flashes that go with the Game Over are all from the device's memory, not Snake's.

You tried firing a missile at it, right?  Did you notice how the shot went wayward and upward?  Makes me believe the thing is equipped with an electromagnetic shield from MGS2 - yet it's funny that they don't ever make any direct mention of the technology in the game.

In any case, the quick and dirty method I've found for this part was to simply tranq its legs over and over again.  It's down for a good twenty five seconds each time, and it works wonders for any Gekko in the game.

SonicPanda wrote:

Crying Wolf was kind of a letdown, honestly. The only MGS4 trailer I'd watched leading up to its release was the B&B snippet, and she looked like she was going to be the toughest nut. But the first thing I tried worked like a charm - crawl under the nearby tank, wait with the sniper rifle and Night Vision, and occasionally pick off any Frogs that get too close. From my shelter, few if any attacks hit me, and even when they did, my psyche was so comfortable my health restored in seconds. She would up being the easiest fight in any MGS game, ever. A pity.

Well sure, since you played the fight like a chicken shit.  ;)  I always take the initiative, exploring the entire field, taking my time, picking off as many Frogs as possible, despite the ever-increasing psyche meter.  Staying low is best, and it's here I've discovered how immeasurably useful the ground roll is for maintaining a high camo index and keeping highly mobile at the same time.  I still abused the RPG for killing Wolf the first time; even in the far off distance, she's an easy target with NV equipped.  But now I use a legit rifle, treating it as a sniping match akin to the The End battle.

SonicPanda wrote:

Vamp fight was fun actually, and I did figure it out on my own,honest. I'm just not telling how long it took to do so.

I actually thought the Vamp battle was the weakest in the game.  To me, it simply equated to a slightly more glorified Beauty form fight; just shoot as he approaches in a straight line.  Was secretly hoping to control Raiden at this point, but alas.  Otacon finally gave me the answer on how to kill Vamp, after the sixth or seventh call.

By the way...... VAMP IS DEAD.  OH SNAP!!1

SonicPanda wrote:

Up to this point, the message of MGS has seemed to me to be that you can be screwed by politicians, the media, even your own family, but they only win if you give in. MGS4 seems to be asking, 'so why haven't you killed yourself yet?'

Can't argue there.  But I think you'll be surprised by who lives and who doesn't.  There was a moment or two where I thought death would actually have been APPROPRIATE, but maybe Kojima was keeping a check at how fatalistic the game was becoming.

XLord007 Jul 1, 2008

Angela wrote:

I actually thought the Vamp battle was the weakest in the game.  To me, it simply equated to a slightly more glorified Beauty form fight; just shoot as he approaches in a straight line.  Was secretly hoping to control Raiden at this point, but alas.  Otacon finally gave me the answer on how to kill Vamp, after the sixth or seventh call.

I actually did the entire Vamp battle with the Stun Knife.  Just made more sense to me and was plenty fun to see him go flying after being electrocuted.  Doesn't change how incredibly cheap the solution to the battle is, but anyway.

Jay Jul 2, 2008

The loss of the accents was a disappointment to me and a symptom of a larger issue - the weakening of the characters. I have no idea what the reasoning behind dropping the accents was for Twin Snakes (I didn't even know that was counted as a proper MGS game and MGS4 has now confused this by referencing both that and the original).

The accents themselves aren't a huge deal but they helped give history, location and served to contribute to fleshing out the characters. Naomi's fit with her history. I can't remember her exact story in the original but I seem to remember Zimbabwe being in the story and some sort of British/Indian upbringing with even a reference to that being where her skin colour came from. But where is that skin colour now?

And the original artwork had tons of personality of course, for Naomi, Mei-Ling and Meryl and everyone else actually.

But, in MGS4, every female is turned into random sexy white American girl. It's like the only thing that was important to Kojima was that they had breasts and an ass. Now that's pretty important for me in a woman too, but I like a bit more to my characters and the MGS characters did have more at one point.

I like that Meryl is still ripped though.

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