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Daniel K Oct 18, 2008

Ashley Winchester wrote:
Daniel K wrote:
Carl wrote:

It also seems like 8-bit really IS the only way to really capture megaman properly.

Wholeheartedly agreed.

I disagree. The 32-bit era was extremely good to Mega Man X4.

To each his own. Personally, I feel the X series lost the simplicity and charm that made the NES Mega Mans so brilliant. The angsty storyline that fits Mega Man like a saddle fits a fish didn't do much to help, either. The soundtracks also got progressively more mediocre, IMO.

Zane Oct 18, 2008

Daniel K wrote:
Ashley Winchester wrote:
Daniel K wrote:

Wholeheartedly agreed.

I disagree. The 32-bit era was extremely good to Mega Man X4.

To each his own. Personally, I feel the X series lost the simplicity and charm that made the NES Mega Mans so brilliant. The angsty storyline that fits Mega Man like a saddle fits a fish didn't do much to help, either. The soundtracks also got progressively more mediocre, IMO.

I never got into the storylines, but I thought that the music for X4 was one of the highlights from the X series. Each SNES OST got less and less more enjoyable, then I thought things picked back up with X4, dipped down again with X5 (overrated) and then took an interesting turn with X6. I'd have to classify them as in their own categories - the music doesn't have the simplicity and charm that you mentioned, but some of the music is quite good on its own merit.

SonicPanda Oct 18, 2008 (edited Oct 18, 2008)

Carl wrote:

It also seems like 8-bit really IS the only way to really capture megaman properly.

See, THIS is the kind of thing I'm tired of hearing. Megaman 9 was good because it was a solidly designed game, not because the chosen idiom has magical transformative powers. The idea that 8-bit is inherently superior carries the connotation that the franchise has been twiddling its thumbs up its ass for the last 14 years (and doesn't address why some of the 8-bit entries are so lackluster), and leaves some of the very best games in the series for dead. Inti Creates themselves have made some incredible MM sidescrollers the last few years, the X series has a good number of solid entries, and Powered Up has my vote for being the greatest MM game ever made. Also, nobody criticizes the Legends games around me without getting a swift kick in the south-forty.

The tunnel vision behind this argument baffles me. Mark my words, the 8-bit redux of MM8 that fans are currently working on is going to be horrible. The original game was designed FOR the 4-and-4 stage format; considering the fans' fidelity to the originals, making Swordman's stage available from the start - when the weapons of the first four bosses are MANDATORY for traversing the stage - is a terrible idea. But 8-stages-at-the-start is how it was on the NES, so by thunder, that's the way it HAS to be.

Also, if this complaint is specifically measured against the soundtracks, then I disagree even more vehemently. MM7 has one of the most well-rounded soundtracks in the Classic series, and Battle & Chase is both completely hi-def and characteristically Megaman. If you go beyond the Classic series' borders, the ratio of quality-to-lousy soundtracks is very positive indeed, with only three serious duds in my estimation (Network Transmission, Command Mission, and the first MM Zero).

I could well be reading too far into what you're saying here, and if so I apologize. It could just be disappointment from the Arrange album talking*. But few things get my Irish up more than dismissive blanket statements about Megaman when the franchise has produced MUCH more good than bad over its history.

*My own thoughts on the album: Sure it's not as good as Inti's previous album, but those were remasters, not arrangements. These are supposed to be dramatic change-ups, and it seems that isn't what most were looking for (it's telling, in fact, that the most widely praised piece online, Matsumae's We're the Robots take, basically IS just a remaster).
If anything, I'm disappointed the didn't stretch out further - I imagine a Galaxyman arrangement in the style of Cowboy Bebop's "Bad Dog No Biscuits" and drool a little bit. Not all of it's good, some of it's quite wretched (the Stage Select, Tornadoman, and Boss mixes especially), but when it works, it works. I'd had the idea to turn Flash in the Dark into a lullaby for my niece before hearing the album, so it was a nice surprise to hear it in ballad form here. Splash Blue is unspeakably awesome, the highlight of the whole thing, and less Schala in my estimation than Donkey Kong Country or Brave Fencer Musashi. The piano arrangements are lovely, and the country style works very well for Magma Burning, if less so for Strange World (another problem with that track though, is that the harmony was inexplicably gutted, making the piece hollow).
I'd call it a good album that could've been great with half the tracks and longer arrangements (most of these end too abruptly and when they could've taken their ideas so much farther).
Oh, and PS: why does Ippo Yamada get top billing for the OST when the liner notes reveal he only contributed two friggin' tracks? Granted, one was Tornadoman, but STILL...

Ashley Winchester Oct 18, 2008

SonicPanda wrote:

If you go beyond the Classic series' borders, the ratio of quality-to-lousy soundtracks is very positive indeed, with only three serious duds in my estimation (Network Transmission, Command Mission, and the first MM Zero).

It's hard for me to say the first MMZ is a flat out dud even though I can take a handful of tracks and leave the rest - I mean "Enemy Hall" is like ten times better than the original GBA version. It was an inportant step in forging the series sound even though most of the ideas presented were abandoned by Idea. Still, I'll admit Physis is the only one I still have.

Not to pick a fight, I think Command Mission is one of the most underrated Mega Man scores out there. I usually dislike Shinya Okada's Mega Man music with a passion yet he gets away with what he does on this album because even though Command Mission is part of the X series he had more of a license to present something different because it wasn't a side scroller. Booting up the game I wasn't expecting normal Mega Man music because it was a RPG and to be honest I don't know what I was expecting to hear the first time I played. So, I guess what I'm saying is while the game was pretty disposable I think the music is/was the best element.

Carl Oct 19, 2008

SonicPanda wrote:
Carl wrote:

It also seems like 8-bit really IS the only way to really capture megaman properly.

See, THIS is the kind of thing I'm tired of hearing. Megaman 9 was good because it was a solidly designed game, not because the chosen idiom has magical transformative powers. The idea that 8-bit is inherently superior carries the connotation that the franchise has been twiddling its thumbs up its ass for the last 14 years (and doesn't address why some of the 8-bit entries are so lackluster), and leaves some of the very best games in the series for dead.

Let's see, I lost interest in the original after 4 or 5, and regained interest when X hit, then after either X2 or X3 that lost my interest too.   In MY playbook, yes the franchise HAS been twiddling it's thumbs for years, because it took 9 to get me back into being excited about rockman again, not any of the other two-dozen other titles in the past decade.

Daniel K Oct 19, 2008

SonicPanda wrote:

Megaman 9 was good because it was a solidly designed game, not because the chosen idiom has magical transformative powers.

I haven't played MM9 yet, but I agree with your statement that the 8-bit medium itself hasn't got "magical transformative powers". I don't love the NES Mega Mans just because they happen to be on an 8-bit system, I love them for the games they are, as simple as that. Personally, nothing in the series from Mega Man X and onwards has appealed to me on a more-than-casual level (this holds both for gameplay and the soundtracks).

I don't know why I draw such a stark line between the NES Mega Mans and the rest of the series. When it comes to other series, I'm usually more accepting of changes and evolution of the gameplay formula and general feel (for example, I have tended to forgive the Castlevania series for much in its latter installments). I just felt that every addition they made to the MM concept from X and onwards took away from the pure and simple gameplay I used to enjoy and expect from the series. The synth-rock turn the music took as well as the more experimental sounds of some of the games also didn't attract me as much as the high-octane melodies of the 8-bit games. I know diehard fans of the MM series will disagree, but those are just my subjective opinions as a casual fan of the series.

Amazingu Oct 21, 2008

Carl wrote:

Let's see, I lost interest in the original after 4 or 5, and regained interest when X hit, then after either X2 or X3 that lost my interest too.   In MY playbook, yes the franchise HAS been twiddling it's thumbs for years, because it took 9 to get me back into being excited about rockman again, not any of the other two-dozen other titles in the past decade.

See, that means that you missed 7 in the original series, and X4 in the X series, both of which are really really good.
I always give an old series a new try when they move onto a new platform.

SonicPanda, I agree with 99.9% of what you say, but I'll add I really liked Network Transmission. If this was Kotaku, I'd nominate you for the Week in Comments thingy wink

Adam Corn Oct 22, 2008

Sorry to break up the discussion with a shameless request but would anyone be up for sending some Rockman 9 Arrange samples for me to post to the site?  Anyone with the soundtrack in MP3 already could use mp3DirectCut or similar software to cut out some one-minute samples, then I will take care of the fades and re-compression myself.

It would be most appreciated, as I don't expect to pick up the album myself... unless the samples convince me otherwise big_smile

Smeg Nov 24, 2008

Angela wrote:

Anybody check out Fredrik Larrson's hot new MM9 medley arrange/music video yet?  It's all kinds of rad, but be warned there's some gameplay spoilers in it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cA06uWV_-c

I only wish that this were a complete album rather than a medley. More!

Zane Nov 24, 2008

Smeg wrote:
Angela wrote:

Anybody check out Fredrik Larrson's hot new MM9 medley arrange/music video yet?  It's all kinds of rad, but be warned there's some gameplay spoilers in it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cA06uWV_-c

I only wish that this were a complete album rather than a medley. More!

Yeah, that was pretty awesome! Much better than the arrange album. Like, a million times better.

Idolores Nov 24, 2008

Zane wrote:
Smeg wrote:
Angela wrote:

Anybody check out Fredrik Larrson's hot new MM9 medley arrange/music video yet?  It's all kinds of rad, but be warned there's some gameplay spoilers in it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cA06uWV_-c

I only wish that this were a complete album rather than a medley. More!

Yeah, that was pretty awesome! Much better than the arrange album. Like, a million times better.

I was planning on ordering the Arrange album. No good?

Carl Nov 24, 2008

Nice stuff, I liked that a whole lot more than the official arrange

XLord007 Nov 25, 2008

Angela wrote:

Anybody check out Fredrik Larrson's hot new MM9 medley arrange/music video yet?  It's all kinds of rad, but be warned there's some gameplay spoilers in it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cA06uWV_-c

Damn, that was really good.  Really puts the official arrange album to shame.

Eirikr Nov 25, 2008

Angela wrote:

Anybody check out Fredrik Larrson's hot new MM9 medley arrange/music video yet?  It's all kinds of rad, but be warned there's some gameplay spoilers in it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cA06uWV_-c

Pretty damn awesome for a free Youtube video, but I can't help but think if this is what the arrange soundtrack sounded like, it would still have disappointed.

I will concede the medley is better than last year's Rock album, not like that's much of a compliment!

Ashley Winchester Nov 30, 2008

I didn't want to make a seperate thread for this but who was the composer for Mega Man & Bass (Rockman & Forte)? This is what I could find:

Sound Designer Naoshi Mizuta
Sound Designer Akari Kaida
Sound Designer Kirikiri-Chan
Music Composer Kirikiri-Chan

So is it just "Kirkiri-Chan" or is it all three... does anyone know "Kirkiri-Chan's" real name?

Chris Nov 30, 2008 (edited Nov 30, 2008)

These credits are complete as far as I know. Pretty conventional for Capcom just to credit sound design under one thing rather than composers separately. That's why there's a bunch of people listed for the soundtrack to Mega Man 7 but probably only Makoto Tomozawa and Yuko Takehara composed it.

Akari Kaida's website confirms she composed Mega Man & Bass (talking of which, does anyone know what Panoroma Shot is listed in her works?). Some Mega Man & Bass tunes just smell of Naoshi Mizuta's distinctive ostinato-based style too.

If anything, I'd say Kikiri-Chan was the non-composer of the trio and maybe handled all sound design / effects duties. I've looked into Capcom pretty thoroughly lately but still don't really know who he/she is and nor do any other good resources like GMCL that I've checked. For the most part, Capcom (and Falcom) composer credits aren't too problematic aside a few titles despite being rarely available on websites, but then again I'm used to dealing with the utter nightmare that is the Konami Kukeiha Club.

Adam Corn Dec 1, 2008

Ashley Winchester wrote:

I didn't want to make a seperate thread for this

Personally I wish you would.  That's not a comment directed at you specifically but as a general trend it seems there are lots of threads lately that start with a specific focus and then billow out into some massive, all-encompassing symposium.

As an example I would have liked to have seen separate threads for the Rockman 9 Arrange Album and maybe even this recent fan arrange.  Of course all of you who are posting are free to do so however you like smile

Anyway just wanted to say don't be afraid to post a new topic for fear it might only warrant one or two responses.  Worst case scenario it gets its moment in the limelight and then fades away to page two and beyond.

Adam Corn Dec 1, 2008

Thanks to Angela we now have a boatload of samples to preview from Rockman 9 Arrange Soundtrack... like one for every single track.  I probably won't keep them all up forever, so those of you who have yet to hear much of the soundtrack and are curious, go on and check it out.

Only having the samples to go by, it sounds pretty decent to me!  I'm inclined to say I'd take it over the OST.

Chris Dec 1, 2008

Never really understood why a lot of people had a problem with the arranged album. I found it quite a bit better than the original and overall a diverse refined production. However, I'm definitely not the biggest Mega Man music fan here so I'm probably not a great judge.

jeriaska Dec 4, 2008

The interview was conducted in person, so it has a different flow to the conversation when compared with the denser interview with Ippo Yamada on the original soundtrack.  What interested me was how Ryo Kawakami sites Mega Man 2 as such a significant influence, as the game's presence was already felt in the no-sliding, no-charging gameplay.

Carl Jan 24, 2009 (edited Jan 24, 2009)

For those who didn't import the Rockman 9 OST yet, Capcom USA now has it stocked for domestic purchase at their online shop.

http://shop.capcom.com/store/capcomus/D … ID.3953900

Same basic price ($30) and it's the same JP version. 

This is the first music album they've put up on their shop though, so it'd be good to support and up their sales numbers so that they might continue featuring such items in the future.

(just ordered myself, and cheapest shipping was $8.50 though? jeez)

Adam Corn Jan 24, 2009

I'd be more inclined to support them if they lowered the price to something reasonable.  $30 for a CD release of a company's own property - a short OST in particular - is ridiculous.

I don't see why it's not just as well to support one's usual favorite retailer, who is working just as hard (apparently harder) to offer the product.

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