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Ephidel Nov 10, 2007

Sorry to rain on your parade but if it deserves 10/10 the developers now have nothing left to aspire to as they have already achieved gaming perfection. In that case Fire Emblem : Radiant Dawn should get 12/10 for being more than perfect;)

Princess-Isabela Nov 10, 2007

no, as of now this is as perfect game as perfect game gets.
10/10.
developers will always come up with ideas in future to improve the genre.

Angela Nov 10, 2007

I stopped by Gamestop to pick up the commemorative coin today, and couldn't help but buy the official Prima Collector's Edition Guide too.  I only leafed through the book briefly, but boy, it's a nice one.  I stumbled across the unlockable you get once you collect all 120 stars; it's an obvious but significant one.

I finally got to try out the game, too.  I only got to drop about fifteen minutes on it, but it was enough to completely hook me.  That stunning 60fps, insanely colorful graphics, and perfect 3D Mario controls; it's not a stretch when I say that this is THE true reason to own a Wii.   

That first time you run around a full 360 on a planet?  It's a wild trip.

Ephidel Nov 10, 2007

Come on I live in the UK and have to wait 'till friday for it's release. Stop punishing me with the obvious brilliance of this game. Damn I feel gutted. (ephidel goes off to watch brandonk's YouTube link again).

Adam Corn Nov 10, 2007

Ephidel wrote:

Sorry to rain on your parade but if it deserves 10/10 the developers now have nothing left to aspire to as they have already achieved gaming perfection.

I think Kotaku dealt with this point in a recent article.  The whole "You can't give a game a 10 rating because no game's perfect" argument is silly.  Reviewers give albums and films 4 or 5 stars (whichever is highest depending on the scale) at times not because they're perfect (perfect being rather subjective in any case) but because they're at the very top of their class.

There is never going to be a "perfect" game but if a game is head and shoulders above everything else in its time then absolutely it should get a 10.  If you say no game deserves a 10 then you could go even further and say no game deserves a 9, because no game is that close to perfection.  It's all relative but if no game ever achieves the highest rank then what's the point in having that rank in the first place.

Ephidel Nov 10, 2007 (edited Nov 10, 2007)

I've been through this argument too many times in my life. Granted SMG is awesome but why is it that most VG reviewers give games say 9.7 out of 10 and when an obviously superior, yet not innovative enough, sequel is released they grade it as inferior to the original. Lots of reviewers do not alter their previous reviews and subsequent ratings at regular intervals. Most people want to know whether a game is worth buying or not ; not that it's unimaginative from an industry standpoint. 10/10's and 100%'s are only acceptable if the general public understand the ratings in relation to current games culture and standards.

Donkey Kong Arcade or DK64? I'll go with DK64 as it's a more enjoyable, diverse and satisfying game, though I can't help but respect and appreciate that without Donkey Kong Arcade we wouldn't be where we are now.

I AM THE GAME, YOU DON'T WANNA PLAY ME,

Ephidel Nov 11, 2007

Or were Rare just paying homage to classic gaming. Remember how many Mario games in recent years also have Mario Bros. Arcade bundled onto them, or maybe the amount of times the NES Metroid has shown up on other Metroid games. Do I really have to go on? They were undoubtedly great games in their time and like I said they deserve respect for their importance in the progression of gaming to where it is today, BUT that doesn't mean that Mario Bros. Arcade is as enjoyable a game as SMG nowadays, or that the NES Metroid is as satisfying as MP3 : Corruption. Games move with the times, so should their ratings.

I AM CONTROL, NO WAY YOU CAN CHANGE ME,

GoldfishX Nov 11, 2007 (edited Nov 11, 2007)

I have two arguments against the 10/10 thing (in general, not for Mario):

1. It's only given to high-profile games, ones that are expected to be mind-blowing. Rarely will you see a game come out of nowhere and receive a perfect score. If people had known GTA would turn into such a sales monster, I'm sure the 8's and 9's it received would have been 10's (as its' sequels turned into). Which tells me the expectations from the reviewers (or possibly advertising revenue or fanboy backlash)  plays a huge role, since no one cares if a lower profile game gets an average or poor score.

2. They're much more commonly thrown around nowadays than they were in the past. EGM gave the first Metal Gear Solid 4 10/10 scores and that seemed to open the floodgates, as they had given very few 10's prior to that. I think in the internet age, a magazine giving perfect scores is a way to get attention, as it's a very strong statement to make them stand out.

These are huge reasons I don't even bother with reviews or gaming media that much anymore and put more stock in message board impressions and video clips before buying.

Case in point: Every Gran Turismo is highly rated by the press, but nearly everyone on STC (myself included) thinks the games are garbage. At least, IIRC. Or Wind Waker, which also got perfect scores aplenty and isn't regarded highly at all here. Which, again, I agree with.

Mario Galaxy is a game I'm on the fence about right now still, so I put more stock in this thread for impressions than I do the gaming media. And uh, it don't sound bad at all.

Ephidel Nov 11, 2007

I agree with both points.

Has anyone here ever heard of Rebelstar : Tactical Command for GBA. It's a turn-based strategy game and I think it's a pretty good game, yet from what most magazines were saying (if anything at all about it) was that it was average at best.

Secondly I can't really remember ANY perfect scores from 15 years ago. The closest I ever saw it get was 99% for Super Mario All Stars (Total magazine). For me it really spoils the experience when there's too much hype around something. I'm expecting to have a religious experience when I play such games and be closer to enlightment when I beat the last boss. I hope we all remember what happened to Turok Evolution.


I AM HEAVY DEBTS, NO WAY YOU CAN PAY ME,

Princess-Isabela Nov 11, 2007

I feel bad for people who won't be able to find Wii in stores this christmas but are desperately in need to play Super Mario Galaxy.
anyone here who has such a dilemma?

Qui-Gon Joe Nov 11, 2007

Personally I think it's kind of silly to expect it to even be possible to have "perfection" in any art form.  There's way too much subjectivity.  I think games need to have something like the four star movie system, or maybe just a five point system.  That way the cream of the crop can get a 4 or 5 and the worst stuff can get a 1.  Personally I don't even really put too much stock into the numbers attached to reviews - the text is a heck of a lot more important.  Even better... talk to people you actually know who understand your personal gaming tastes.

GoldfishX Nov 11, 2007

Qui-Gon Joe wrote:

Personally I don't even really put too much stock into the numbers attached to reviews - the text is a heck of a lot more important.

Depends on what you're reading. In 99% of cases where I question the usefulness or integrity of a review, I've found the text is as useless and mundane as the numbers (normally along the lines of "Yeah, we gave THIS game THIS score and HERE'S why...Booyah!" or "We gave this game a perfect score and you can plainly see that, so we filled this review space with stupid attempts at humor and enough words to fill the rest of the page up because this game's so effin' good, we couldn't objectively attempt to review it")

I miss Gamefan because their numbers were beyond idiotic, but the writing was just so over-the-top, it ended up being the most informative insight I had on most of the games they covered. You could tell they didn't care about pissing off the game companies (probably why they're not around anymore).

Ephidel Nov 11, 2007

I've stopped reading all reviews and magazines since the UK official Nintendo Mag was taken over by trendies. I trust my own judgement and experience at being able to discern between the good and the crap games out there. Seems to be working at the moment. I got caught out by Far Cry Vengeance though:(

Amazingu Nov 11, 2007

I don't really agree with you GoldfishX. Although I DO think that perfect scores are thrown about easier these days, but perhaps this is exactly because many people have come to understand that a "perfect" score doesn't necessarily stand for a perfect game (which is impossible in the first place), just for one that is extremely significant or well-made. I have learned to read it as such at least.

Also, God of War came pretty much out of nowhere, didn't it? Got nothing but 10/10s as far as I recall.
What about Ico? Scored insanely high as well.

If there is a tendency for big companies to recieve perfect scores, it's because they know what they're doing, that's why they became big. They actually have talent behind them in most cases, although most people are too jaded to admit it nowadays.

Also, Gran Turismo garbage!? Then you don't like racing games obviously. Or you like more arcade style racing games, that's possible, but noone in his right mind could call a game like GT garbage. Not liking something does not equal it to garbage. People have to learn differentiating their opinion from fact. Whether you like GT or not is up to you, there's no accounting for taste, but it cannot be considered garbage by any standards, that's insane.

Ephidel Nov 11, 2007

So let's say a Fire Emblem would only get say 9/10 while a Mario game scores 10/10. The ratings given to games are based on the opinions of the reviewer and his/her attempt at objectively reviewing a game. ALL reviews are based on opinion, to a greater or lesser extent, through generally assumed knowledge. Knowledge which the non-gaming public does not possess. NO-ONE is able to produce a completely unbiased review yet (tainted through experience) most VG reviewers blatantly display signs of fanboyism and lack of objectivity in their articles. What makes FE a 9 and a Mario game a 10? The answer is the reviewer's understanding of gaming qualities and necessities that may, or may not, enable that game to be more enjoyable for more people.

Perfect scores are NOT given out to games that are head and shoulders above the rest, just to games that the reviewer enjoyed and how much they think others will enjoy it.

I don't see many perfect scored RTS games out there, do you?


I AM THE PAIN, AND I KNOW YOU CAN'T TAKE ME.

Amazingu Nov 11, 2007

This thread has officially been HIJACKED!

So what? I started it, and I don't care if it goes off-topic. I like this discussion actually.

@ Ephidel: RTS's suck, I'm afraid you're going to have to live with that wink

As for reviewers, yes of course that is only the opinion of one person, that's why you should never stick to just one site or magazine only. Always look at multiple reviews if you're going to dig into a game. Gamerankings.com is perfect for finding out the general consensus, so I always check some reviews through there.
The Famitsu Cross-review system is also pretty good in that respect, although their reviews are far too short and, well, biased. But the system is good. Getting the opinion of 4 people is better than just one.

GoldfishX Nov 11, 2007

Amazingu wrote:

I don't really agree with you GoldfishX. Although I DO think that perfect scores are thrown about easier these days, but perhaps this is exactly because many people have come to understand that a "perfect" score doesn't necessarily stand for a perfect game (which is impossible in the first place), just for one that is extremely significant or well-made. I have learned to read it as such at least.

I think my explanation makes more sense. There's simply more advertising revenue to be made nowadays than back in the 80's/early 90's when perfect scores were extraordinarily rare, so what's a little .5 or 1 boost? If anything, I think reviewers have gotten lazier while the games have gotten longer, resulting in sort of a double-whammy as far as gaming journalism goes (especially in regards to deadlines).

If there is a tendency for big companies to recieve perfect scores, it's because they know what they're doing, that's why they became big. They actually have talent behind them in most cases, although most people are too jaded to admit it nowadays.

Um, I don't really get the tone of this...I'm not saying they don't have talent or the games suck because they're high-profile, I'm just saying reviewers devote more time and energy to high profile games and are already expecting to give them a higher score, somewhat resulting in a very noticably double standard in both the text/information given and the numerical value (an unwritten reviewer's tilt, if you will). Case in point: High profile games normally get a full 1-page review on Game Informer, while the lower profile games get these cute little say-nothing mini-reviews, which fit 5-6 on a page. They've just been hyped up enough for the higher-profile stuff (and have more stuff easily written, due to cover stories and such), then they just kind of do some of the rest very half-assed, which isn't an exception among gaming publications I'm afraid.

You're in Europe, right (or Japan...sorry, I forget)? God of War was pretty heavily hyped over here in the US, IIRC. I know Game Informer did a massive cover story on it and there was a long-running commercial for it and it was one of the most talked-about games when it came out. Ico was more of a sleeper hit, but I don't recall too many perfect scores for it (I thought its' reception was lukewarm, actually...It was mentioned in nearly every review I read how short it was and that was kind of the focus that it was a great rental than anything).


Also, Gran Turismo garbage!? Then you don't like racing games obviously. Or you like more arcade style racing games, that's possible, but noone in his right mind could call a game like GT garbage. Not liking something does not equal it to garbage. People have to learn differentiating their opinion from fact. Whether you like GT or not is up to you, there's no accounting for taste, but it cannot be considered garbage by any standards, that's insane.

Do a back search for posts about it and you'll see what I mean. Most people here consider them garbage. I love arcade racers, but I consider the GT games nearly unplayable, from the retarded licenses tests (which reviewers magically flock to as a great idea, while they'd be torn apart for stupidity in a lesser game) to the actual racing. Hence = garbage. I notice you're not shy about saying the same about RTS games. So, uh, yeah...

Ephidel Nov 11, 2007 (edited Nov 11, 2007)

Reviewers have definitely gotten lazier and the VG industry is getting more lucrative by the day. Here's another insignificant yet great game, Freedom Fighters, a cross platform last gen release. I admit I thought I was gonna vomit (freedom and democracy and all that), but the game turned out to be great (Russia invades NYC WHOOOAAAHH!!!).

I live in Europe but, like I said in a different thread, I'll never sleep with a non-nintendo console. As for RTS games, are you trying to say BWii is crap? Hmmmm... a big, therefore great (according to amazingu anyway), company releases A CRAP GAME!!?!? Kinda smashes your logic doesn't it.


LOOK OVER YOUR SHOULDER, READY TO RUN,
LIKE A CLEVELAND BITCH FROM A SMOKING GUN!

(No offence intended to people from Cleveland. I didn't write the lyrics).

HIJACKED! I say COMMANDEERED!

Princess-Isabela Nov 11, 2007

Ephidel wrote:

LOOK OVER YOUR SHOULDER, READY TO RUN,
LIKE A CLEVELAND BITCH FROM A SMOKING GUN!

(No offence intended to people from Cleveland. I didn't write the lyrics).

then why are you posting this?
kind of out of context to our discussion.

Ephidel Nov 11, 2007 (edited Nov 11, 2007)

You may not have noticed but it's a stream of consiousness in my posts in this thread. Can't get this outta my head.


I AM THE GAME AND I MAKE THE RULES,
SO MOVE ON OUTTA HERE AND DIE LIKE A FOOL,

Princess-Isabela Nov 11, 2007

Ephidel wrote:

You may not have noticed but it's a stream of consiousness in my posts in this thread. Can't get this outta my head.


I AM THE GAME AND I MAKE THE RULES,
SO MOVE ON OUTTA HERE AND DIE LIKE A FOOL,

that's exactly why it seems unnecessary but if you can't help it's ok.

moving right along,

2 days untill mario hits store shelves,

I'm finishing Super Paper Mario (terrific game) right now so timing couldn't be better.

Qui-Gon Joe Nov 11, 2007

When I wasn't paying attention did this forum implement a thing where you only gain access to some feature after you've posted a whole bunch of times or something?  O.o

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