Um... no offense to anyone but who on this board isn't samey at least some of the time? I have my Mega Man X love-hate thing, Wild Arms 1&2 love, and anti JRPG thing going on, Angie has her shooters, avatar talks up atlus. It's bound to happen given enough time and while some may consider it stale at least it gives one an idea where people stand on stuff and gives them character.

Don't see the point of calling out one person when we're all guilty.

It's a matter of the degree to which one is samey. We normally have consistency in opinions and tastes, but I can't really think of a single member who posts the same thing to the same extent as him. What's worse, it's like ... he posts stuff to remind everyone how "bad" (modern) game music is (this is actually how he condemned people in Chudah's Corner), and while his opinion is fine (or rather, I always find it to be interesting and reasonable), the way he presents it is not.

I give up, anyway. How I ended up derailing this thread for a personl matter is certainly far much more obnoxious and obscene, for certain. I apologize.

I suppose there are worse genres I could be called upon as being samey, but I'd like to think I'm somewhat of a well-rounded specimen when it comes to gaming - save for sports titles and most current RPGs.  I'm just surprised that well-acquainted "music rhythm" card wasn't dealt to me this time. :)

Right, derailment.  Sorry, carry on.

They're making me angry though. They keep releasing all these games I want to play, but I have NO time, and very limited spending money... damn them!

on the other hand, they did provide us with this:

http://www.atlus.com/res/atlusoweenie_runnerup_51.jpg

that, will never get old

cheers,

-avatar!

Ho! But then what of classical music? And baroque? And impressionist?

I do get what you are saying, and I agree, but like I said, sometimes a classic is set in stone as a classic. Sometimes only time will tell what these classics are.

Actually it's pretty much 'always' one needs to wait to decide, as popular stuff very easily can fall out of favor amd be forgotten (even back in the 19th century!), while others can be 'rediscovered'.

One thing to consider, though, when judging new vs old. How many times have to you continued to listen to the old stuff now and again? It's ingrained in your mind, where as newer stuff hasn't been digested quite so much. Furthermore, the more music you listen to, the less place any one will have, so the older stuff that already held a place is going to more likely keep it.

If that makes any sense.

No offense to classical music-lovers, but most symphonic music we casually refer to as "classics" owe A LOT to the force of tradition. They have a special place in our culture because they were promoted and sustained by the privileged and powerful classes of centuries past (there's been many kinds of music throughout history, what we see as "classics" are just the preserved ones), and they've now become cultural symbols. That doesn't of course mean that a person today can't love them purely on musical basis, but it does mean that there are some people who listen to them for snobbish and elitist reasons.

In a sense, "oldschool" versus "newschool" VGM is a microcosm of the entire music world not only in the fact that it contains most musical styles within its confines - it also reflects music history. Oldschool VGM can be compared to the old classics like Bach, Mozart, etc., and newschool can be said to be popular music from the early 20th century and onwards. Like the explosion and proliferation of different styles from the 1950s to this day, "new" VGM moves in every direction fast, attracting many different people with very little common ground. Like the classics, oldschool VGM is much more homogeneous and clearcut, and appeals to people with very strict tastes. Not to once again go into the "grumpy old men"-bit, but as time goes by and we move further and further from the age of the classics, 8- and 16-bit music is going to increasingly become relegated to a niche-status like most classical music is today. Of course there's always gonna be people listening to it and loving it, but that circle is going to grow smaller and more hardcore (and in the case of most individuals involved: grumpier ). In a few decades "Final Fantasy VI OST" will mean as much to the average VGM-listening kid as "Mahler's 8th symphony" means to most of us (I don't even know if Mahler had an 8th symphony, I'm just using that for the case of argument).

All of that said, however, I personally certainly never plan to leave that hardcore circle of oldschool fanatics or stop loving the FF6 OST. Bring on the grumpiness! But also bring on the future...

Yes, that makes perfect sense. Thank you for pointing it out so succinctly (in far less paragraphs than I'd have to use to make the same point, haha). It is so true that the old stuff is "ingrained" (the perfect word, really) in your mind more strongly than most new stuff will be. And that which is ingrained at an early age always sticks harder and takes up more shelfspace than that coming later. Anyone who's seriously tried to change their lives in any fundamental sense knows how hard it can be to rearrange the old stuff to make room for the new. The early stuff is always gonna maintain a special kind of "glow" that puts later discoveries on an unequal footing in the competition. (And I'm of course aware of the fact that one can, as a fan of oldschool VGM, start listening to chiptune music that one never heard until now and start to love that as much as the old classics. But the argument still stands - if you've learned to enjoy that style of music at an early age, its not that hard to discover new stuff in that genre that you can instantly get into).

Wait a second...You're not getting off that easy this time. I'm calling you out, you little passive-aggressive stalker. And this time, no half-hearted SEMO IM's to smooth things over...You started this in public, finish it in public. Otherwise, stick to IM's or the forum email if you have something directly to say to me or about me.

I'm well aware in Japanese, it's considered polite not to address someone directly. In this case, I have this to say:

Cedille, I am right here and I know exactly who you are talking about and so does everyone else on this forum that has at least one working brain cell (hint: this means everyone). You sound like a fool because everyone here knows who you're referring to. Deal with me directly if you have anything to say to or about me, otherwise quit wasting everyone's time. I personally don't mind a difference of opinion with anyone (and in Daniel's case, it's fun to debate over), but I have no respect for someone who has nothing to add to an argument and is merely vaguely commenting on the posting style of someone they can't even address directly.

I hope that wasn't too direct, Cedille.

Okay, I think the majority of modern VGM is trite, overdramatic, stale, rushed and downright bad (or is good and doesn't appeal to me) and I dislike or feel generally indifferent to many of the current composers on the scene...That's how I feel about the subject and if you don't like it, you should be skipping what I write about it. That's the basic recap.

But...really now Cedille, what is this nonsense about Chudahs Corner, a site I haven't had any affiliation with for close to 3 years (and when I left as a staff member, I didn't believe the current VGM scene was all that bad). No really, I have zero clue what this is about. Enlighten me and the rest of the world with this one.

Okay, mommy, can I go out and play now?

Okay, this is from before, but this is just childish and more than a little creepy, the more I think about it. You read my posts (and apparently have a better memory than I do, depending what this Chudahs Corner thing is about), you rile yourself up for years at a time apparently because apparently I repeat myself too much saying something you obviously disagree with and then you lay this garbage out, from out of nowhere. Honestly, get out of your little hole and deal with me and what I say directly, instead of holding up a clipboard and pretending you're giving me my yearly review. Otherwise, grow up because I'm not holding an honest opinion back on a topic I feel very strongly about, just because you're tired of reading it AND especially when it is 100% pertinent to a topic that was started by someone else and much of what I said was expanded on more than I planned because I was talking with someone else.

This IS a good point. However, I don't really think it's possible to form an opinion THAT thick, where you can't allow anything new to become classic. There aren't many widely regarded VGM classics I think I've missed (due to how long I spent listening solely to it), but my point for this whole thread is I don't hear much in modern times that I would recommend to someone breaking into the scene as a true classic.

I found my way around the metal scene by exploring what are largely regarded as "classics" by the established fanbase and it's really helped me branch out into lesser known bands on my own (or bands less popular with the core metal fanbase, like the 80's hairbands). Though, mind you, everything recommended by the fanbase is hardly to my liking, but I found a large number of hits that I was able to assimilate into everyday listening without buying fully into the hype that surrounded them. It just kind of "happened"...It's rare for newer VGM to have that kind of effect and most of the known composer base is so well established, I don't think it's possible for my favorites to surpass what they've done (it feels like the ones that are still around are barely trying, save for Yuzo...although Mitsuda has new life with me with his DS work) and it's unlikely the ones I dislike will win me over...and it took about 9 good years of trying to assimilate Sakimoto before realizing it was a lost cause and I was just wasting my time.

BUT (for the peanut gallery that is obviously reading this!), there are a few, from this year even. They're even mentioned earlier in this thread, which was apparently MISSED (granted, most are portable or decidedly 8-bit in style *strong hint*, but oh well...not all of them are).

Finish it in private, please.  Even if one or both of you have been offended, "finishing it" here in this thread is not going to make a big difference in how the world at large looks at you and it certainly won't keep this thread from derailing further.

Please

I'd be fine with finishing it in private, but I want an answer to my question here where everyone can see it, about the Chudahs Corner reference from this guy. That's all, I guess, but only because it makes no sense and it makes me look like I'm hiding something or holding a grudge or something (I'm not). I don't have any real interest in dragging this "stagnant" crap on further, but we supposedly dealt with each other "in private" before but apparently, he felt the need to carry on (then "conveniently" walk away).