I dunno if anyone else here reads Websnark or not, but the guy who runs the site, Eric Burns, recently got a Wii, which in turn lead to some civil debate on the subject of next-gen in the comments. 32_footsteps, of Netjak and Joystiq, contributed to the debate, ending with the following blurb:

"Finally, Netjak's reaction to the Dragon Quest 9 switch is rather muted for several reasons. First of which being, overall, we think Dragon Quest is only an okay franchise. Second, and perhaps more important, is that several of us have contacts all over S-E, and we generally have a decent grasp of what's going on in the corridors of power there.

Since this isn't quite the place to go into detail over it, I'll say we raised an eyebrow and combined this with other news to come to the conclusion that Sony is about to lose S-E as an developer of exclusive titles, and possibly as a developer period. If you're wondering what direction the company as a whole is going to take, look out for the next Kingdom Hearts game. That's going to tell alot about where S-E plans to develop most heavily."

Second-hand gossip, yes, but still food for thought.

P.S. Completely irrelevant, but Konami's announcement of Dracula X (Rondo) Chronicles - with Symphony included - on the PSP means I just decided I'll need a PSP at some point after all.

Ugh, Konami pisses me off.

Nah, more like where Nomura likes to put his stuff on while the rest of his company does stuff for DS and Wii...

The original Rondo had voice parts.  That would mean they are getting dubbers for this.  Could be just as bad/campy as Symphony was...heh

Why does Konami remaking and porting one of the most revered and sought-after Castlevanias--with SOTN thrown in--piss you off?

Because it is being released on the wrong system.  Here's hoping Konami releases it on the Wii VC in the US.  They won't though, because Konami sucks, and that is why they piss me off.

They gave us two original games for the DS, and IV for the VC... and now they're giving us Rondo for the PSP. Bad news if you don't have a PSP (I don't), but I don't think it's fair to say Konami sucks because we don't own the system they chose to put a game on. PSP owners could easily say the same thing about not getting the DS games, or any original Castlevania title, and they'd be just as unjustified.

(Konami released SOTN on Live Arcade before surprising us with the PSP port, so it's not out of the question that they could bring Rondo to Virtual Console in the future.)

I'm still waiting 'til I have to use more than one hand to count the games I want for PSP before I consider buying the handheld, but this puts me one digit closer.

Wait a minute, so what does that mean?

If they ain't making games for Sony, where are they going?

I mean, for graphic whores like S-E, ESPECIALLY Mr. Nomura, the Wii isn't really an option is it?
So are they going to 360 then? In JAPAN!?

Especially since Nomura is already working on FF vs. XIII for PS3 for an expected 2008 release.  But anyway, I highly doubt Squenix will abandon Sony the way it ditched Nintendo back in 1996.  Let's also remember that it just licensed the Unreal Engine 3.  That sure isn't gonna run on the Wii, and as Amazingu points out, the 360 isn't going anywhere in Japan.  I would expect to see more cross-platform MMORPG stuff from Squenix.  We already know they have at least one next-gen MMORPG in the works, and I'd bet Squenix will do whatever it can to make sure that game appears on PC, PS3, and X360 to get that subscription revenue wherever possible.  Tanaka was recently quoted as being annoyed with Nintendo's friend code system since it makes MMORPGs impossible.

I wouldn't be terribly surprised if FFXIII receives a port to the 360 sometime after its PS3 release, and I'm sure support of both the DS and Wii will increase, but like I said, I think it's incredibly unlikely that Squenix will ditch Sony.

The Dreamcast Puzzle Fighter in the Capcom Puzzle World is one thing that would get me to get a PSP, assuming they redesign it.  I'd probably pick up the Powerstone Collection too.  However, I'd prefer Capcom release SPF2TX and the Powerstones on something else (something especially like XBLA and take advantage of the online multiplayer).

Am I the only one envisioning a situation where the PS3 can't sell anywhere near as well as the 360 and then vice versa in Japan, therefore pretty much forcing companies to do multiplatform?  I can't imagine that the Wii won't benefit from that, seeing as a strong second in both major regions could make it the most attractive option overall...

The Wii is #1 in Japan, and by the time FFXIII comes out, I think the Wii will have a big enough lead to keep it there.  So that just leaves the Wii #2 in the U.S. and Europe.

I tend to think the Wii will fizzle out when the Wiimote's novelty wears off. When people stop oohing and ahing about the Wiimote and realize that it in fact doesn't inherently make games more fun, the Wii will have to rely on its barely above last-gen hardware.

That's what people said about the DS. For example, see Sony's comments on the DS two years ago, at the eve of the PSP's release:
http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3143180

"With the DS, it's fair to say that Nintendo stepped out of the technical race and went for a feature differentiation with the touch screen," Harrison says. "But I fear that it won't have a lasting impact beyond that of a gimmick - so the long-lasting appeal of the platform is at peril as a direct result of that."

Just replace "DS" with "Wii" and "touch screen" with "wii-mote" and you get the same argument that people are making about the Wii today. Yet, we all know how the DS vs. PSP battle went.

It's not just a matter of novelty, the simple fact is that Nintendo is reaching a FAR bigger audience than only gamers by introducing an easy to use control scheme, and a bigger variety in games.
I don't think the Wii will die out "when the novelty wears off".

I believe that the PS3 has already outsold the 360 here, even when doing so poorly.
I hope this whole S-E problem is going to stir things up a bit though.

By all accounts, both DS and Wii could have faded if the quality and quantity of games weren't up to snuff. I didn't buy a DS for the touch-screen...I bought it because it has the games I wanted to play the most, with the touch screen more or less an option (and still is, since my favorite games on it make little use of it). If everything on the system played like, say, Lost Magic, where the touch screen novelty wore off in 15 minutes and the crap game underneath was quickly exposed, there'd be a problem, but that isn't the case. When I get the Wii later this year, it will be because of both Super Paper Mario and Smash Brothers Brawl and hopefully the new features will breath some much needed life into some already-long-tired genres (sports, FPS...I didn't like the first Metroid Prime, but the third could be really cool with the Wiimote used as the blaster). Now if Wii goes through a year like Gamecube had in 2005 or 2006 or like the DS had during its' first 6-7 months of being out, then there's trouble.

There's a difference between a dedicated, reasonably powerful system with a full healthy line-up of good and exclusive games and legitimately silly gimmicks that are dead before they start (see: GBA Connectivity, which probably hurt Nintendo immensely more than it ever helped and was poorly planned).

Totally agreed. With just a few exceptions, I find the best DS games are great in spite of the features rather than because of them.

As far as quality of games...the Wii's "killer app" at this point is a GameCube port (one that IMO is better on the GCN). It's yet to get a big-name exclusive. Super Mario Galaxy and Super Smash Bros. Brawl don't even have release dates yet. The early adopters haven't been buying it because of great games, they've been buying because of the novelty of the Wiimote and the assumption that great games will show up in the future.

And speaking of SSBB, the fact that it's designed not to use the Wiimote is significant IMO. As is director Masahiro Sakurai saying "We found that trying to implement too much motion-sensory functionality can get in the way of the game." If some of Nintendo's own in-house teams are finding the Wiimote detrimental rather than helpful to game design (and even publically admitting it!), what are the 3rd-party developers (who inherently are far less invested in the Wiimote concept) going to think? If implementation of the Wiimote falls by the wayside, the Wii is left as an almost-last-gen machine trying to compete with next-gen powerhouses.

Also, I tend to think that handhelds (with their casual "play anywhere" nature) are more conducive to the "non-gamer" market than consoles.

I think implementing the motion sensitive controls of the wiimote into a fast-paced fighting game like SB would be really difficult.  I understand why they want to stick with conventional controls on such a title.

SSBB isn't technically being made by an in-house team and it is just ONE game---no need for misleading vividness.  Besides, though it is your opinion that you prefer the GCN version doesn't mean anything and the "novelty" of the Wiimote has offered some fun gameplay so far.  Speaking of "the assumption that great games will show up in the future," I have a PS3 that has so far been useless, outside of playing blu-ray, so powerhouse means nothing either.

I've always felt that buying consoles at launch in general is a bad idea. Even aside from hardware bugs being more likely and prices being highest at launch, there's the fact that "good launch title" borders on being an oxymoron.

U.S. released systems with killer app launch titles:

1985 - NES (Super Mario Bros.)
1989 - Game Boy (Tetris)
1991 - SNES (Super Mario World)
1996 - N64 (Super Mario 64)
2001 - Xbox (Halo)
2006 - Wii (Twilight Princess)

I think all of the above qualify as true killer apps at they time they were released and justified the early purchase of their respective consoles.  Sure, there have been more systems with junk launch titles than killer apps launch titles, but the above is still a fairly impressive selection.

Lest not forget: Smash Brothers Melee was effectively a US launch title for GC and many still consider it the console's best game. I certainly do.

Now the PS2 and PS3 launch...That's how you launch a system with nothing for it and hope to sell on hype alone. I can't even name a non-EA PS3 game off the top of my head. Yeah, the Zelda thing is a little cheap (and more than a little ignorant to GC owners, all things considered), but having THE game people wanted at launch was smart business. Especially head to head with the black hole Sony launched with...

Realistically, there's no way to implement the Wiimote in a fighting game like that, at least not as the dedicated standard to be played seriously. Think about it: 4 people packed tightly together, clobbering each other IRL every couple of seconds because of the fast-paced nature of the game. That's good news to me that Nintendo is being sensible about it...A few years ago, I would have feared a Smash Brothers sequel have GBA Connectivity and you would generate ingame items with the E-Reader somehow. Wiimote simply isn't good for all genres of games...There shouldn't be any surprise there. I definitely don't want to play Mario 3 with the thing.

I don't consider it the console's best game by any stretch, but I do agree that if it had actually been a launch title, it would certainly qualify for my list of killer app launch titles.

Twilight Princess doesn't justify the immediate purchase of a Wii. Sure, you can play it on the Wii, but it's a GameCube game. And on the GCN, you can actually play it as it was intended to be played.

Tell Sony's accountants that, along with the 86% of people who bought it with their Wii (source: Game Informer).

You're misreading the facts, Goldfish.

Red said that TP does not justify purchase of a Wii. Showing that 86% of people who bought a Wii also bought TP does not prove otherwise. If anything, it proves his point - 86% of people who bought a Wii thought that the best thing to get with it was, in fact, a GC game.

All that figure shows is how little else there was worth looking at.

Yes, that's correct since all those people indeed got the GC version. Also everything else is not worth looking at as one can still easily find Wii systems everywhere (unlike, say, PS3).

So...If I buy the Wii version of Twilight Princess, it will work in my Gamecube?

The fact of the matter is: Wii had Zelda at launch (and the GC Edition wasn't out yet), PS3 did not. And Zelda aside, Wii is $250 with a free game (and a pretty decent looking one at that). PS3 is $500-$600 with no games. Those are all the facts you need to know.

Personally, I'd probably spring for either Elebits or Trauma Center if I'd picked up Wii. Neither will ever be a mainstream killer app, but both look like something I'd pick up as a solid secondary purchase. And Metal Slug Anthology is something I don't have (and I don't have a PSP yet), so I'd have gotten that as well. And in addition, like I said, the control will breathe new life into very tired genres: Tecmo's Super Swing Golf happens to look very tempting with the Wiimote as a controller.

Datschge: It's the other way around here (I know you're in Germany)...I've been able to find plenty of PS3 systems on the shelf recently, but very few (if any) Wii's. The ebay demand for PS3 died out because there were so many of them on there. Within a month, the price went from $1500-$2000+ to more "normal" prices ($600-$900).

Actually, I'd bet a ten-spot that he knows that and his post was pure, unfiltered sarcasm.

But yeah. I've a Wii and Zelda, and I'm pretty happy with both.

Now that's what I call some beautiful sarcasm. ::sheds tears of joy::

*notes sarcasm

Bah, and they say increasing awareness beyond one's own setting is a good thing.

And there have even been several auctions for BRAND NEW PS3s for less than $400 AFTER inflated shipping charges.  The PS3 market has dropped out.

If they're all the facts we need to know, why quote figures that say 86% of Wii owners got Zelda?

And Datschge, your sarcasm doesn't in any way hide your misreading either. As you pointed out, the GC version is available. So, what you're both missing is why people went for a Wii over the GC version? So that people could play it with a flipped world?

Zelda didn't sell the system.

Yes, people wanted Zelda. No doubt about it. But what sold the Wii was Nintendo's excellent marketing, the price point and, more important than all of that, the system of play. The controller sold the system. And Goldfish, you're right that Wii Sports had a lot to do with that - I'd say more than Zelda did. People wanted the Wii, and then bought Zelda because it was the best game available. Not the other way around - if it were, people would have gone for the GC version.

Nintendo created a console with a unique selling point and sold it really well. Don't forget that the actual point you were arguing against was this -

You still haven't shown otherwise.

Being extremely technical, you could argue by me saying "Zelda aside", I am including and refering back to the figures from before in there as well, as opposed to regurgitating them again. Therefore, my quote would read as "Zelda + price + free game = win for Nintendo, Price + Black Hole + No free game = lose for Sony". And what you're missing is the GC version of Zelda wasn't available for about a month until after Wii launched, nor was it hyped anywhere near the extent as the Wii version (at least not AFTER it was announced it would accompany the Wii at launch). All the parents out there who read anything about Nintendo's systems probably didn't have a clue about the GC Zelda, while seeing "Wii Launch = ZELDA!!!!!" at every turn.

And about the initial point, you made my argument for me: People bought Zelda because it was the best game available, justifying the purchase. But you're also right that Nintendo's marketing was brilliant: De-emphasizing and endlessly delaying the GC version in exchange to have THE launch of all time for their new system was a brilliant move. But you're also right in the other sense: That people are excited about the controller and its' potential. I never disagreed with that. I've said numerous times how I'm looking forward to it reinventing several tired genres and I assume other people feel similarly. Basically, Nintendo did a lot of things right, save for screwing over GC owners for a year or so to delay Zelda. But it's a small sacrifice when you consider what they gained...Imagine if Microsoft had delayed Halo 2 a year and presented it as the Xbox 360 killer app. They probably could have used it.