So I auctioned off a copy of Suikoden 2 for the psx a week or two ago and positive feedback had been left about a week ago. Today I receive this email

"Jared,

The Suikoden II disc that you sent me freezes at the same spot in the game. After a twenty minute cutscene, the screen will freeze after the main character receives the Rune. I have attempted to play this portion of the game three times, all ending with the same results.

I realize that part of your item description said that the disc had some light scratches, but you assured the buyer that the game played 100% perfectly. Since that is not the case, I am writing to work out a way to refund my money and to return the game to you. I regret that this transaction has grown so complicated. I hope we can work out this return to run as smoothly as the purchase.

Kevin Zing"

First off, I never said the game had scratches, I said it had light marks and indeed it had been played through twice with no problems whatsoever on two different machines at that. Do I give this guy a refund? How do I know he is not copying the game and wanting to send it back? This is the first time anyone has complained about something I sent them, and I am a bit surprised. The game was packed rock solid. No way it was damaged in shipping. And I know it worked fine...last thing I want to do is give someone something that doesn't work, but on the other hand I don't want to get ripped off either...

Edit: Also just to note I have perfect feedback under the name "saxajar" and this other guy has a feedback of 4 (one of them mine) but he has one that said the guy never paid, never responded etc...dunno if that matters however.

I wouldn't send this guy anything back in this situation. It's either his system (you can never tell with the way PS systems function over their lifespans) or he's full of it. But under the assumption you sent him a working game, I don't think you're entitled to send him a refund for this. I know I wouldn't.

(also, I don't recall a 20 minute cutscene in Suikoden 2).

I don't recall a 20 minute cutscene either, that did set off red flags. I just have two concerns. The first is I do not want to rip the guy off IF in case it is the game's fault somehow. Secondly, he paid through paypal and I would rather avoid some weird dispute hassle. Aren't sellers at an extreme disadvantage? What if they give him my money back and he never sends the game back etc?

Well, worse comes to worse, he'll leave you negative feedback, and then you leave him negative feedback. Still, I would simply tell him that you checked the game before you sent it, and it was in superb physical condition, and that you're guessing it's his system. Add "By the way, which 20-minute cutscene are you talking about?"

cheers,

-avatar!

They already left feedback for each other.

-Joshua

If the guy just wanted to copy it, there are easier ways he could have done that than buying it on ebay and going through the hassle of returning it and getting a refund. The 20 mins was obviously an exaggeration.

Yes, it could well be just the guy's system but, if I were you, I'd refund him, check it yourself and (assuming it works) sell it again.

Worst case scenario by refunding it is that you lose what it cost you to ship. Worst case scenario if you don't is that someone bought something from you that doesn't work and you've shafted them.

Only refund AFTER he returns it.  Ask him to play it on another console, or something, cos thats probably what it is.  I can understand the buyer's position, I mean, thats aggrivating you must imagine!, but only give back money once you have the assurance the game is not working properly and its back in your hands.

If this is a legitimate problem, he'll likely be willing to accept a refund minus shipping (a service neither of you have any reason to expect reimbursement for, assuming you didn't gouge) after sending the item back to you.

You should try to avoid giving him any reason to file a dispute with PayPal, though. For them to side with him, all he needs to do is provide a tracking number that shows he mailed *something* back to you. They won't care if the package is empty or the disc is split in half; they will almost certainly believe his story. Sellers have no real defense.

I've had the misfortune of getting a processor back from a buyer with a history of receiving "defective" computer equipment. The processor's die was cracked and chipped and covered with some weird grey goo that couldn't have possibly been an effective thermal compound.

He filed a complaint as soon as I asked him how the item got so damaged.
PayPal didn't listen to my arguments describing the item (before and after pictures with clear views of the serial number were provided) and just awarded him a full refund.

As a result, I've just decided to adopt a policy of offering buyers a favourable solution at the first sign of trouble.

I would write him back and tell him to do this if he hasn't already before considering anykind of refund. If he hasn't tried this (and I would *hope* most people would think of trying this before contacting a seller) he's really giving you the business. I can think of a few of my PS1 games that won't work in a PS2 or a PS1 game that won't work in a PS1 but will work on a PS2. Hell, there is stuff that won't run on the old fat PS2 but will on the newer ones (CV: SotN) and vice-versa.

Edit:

As far as your feedback goes, even if a seller has one negative that doesn't stop me from doing business with them (unless they have a really extremely low feedback score to begin with or the negative feedback says something like "bootleg" in it or they feel they feel to need to say they are an elderly Christain women that makes all their income off of eBay - aka statements you have no way of proving). Still, I rather not get involved in an argument with paypal/ebay as it be more trouble than it's worth.

he can only file a paypal chargeback for either non-receipt or 'significantly not as described'
whether he can do it behind paypal directly through his credit card is another thing. but i highly doubt he'd be successful. he's playing a used game on a 12 year old game console.. there's probably all sorts of smeg on his laser affecting the reading.

if you do allow him to send it back,, tell him to ship the memory card with it so you can see where it's freezing... or hell, im sure the guy has a camcorder or something, he can probably email you a video of the thing freezing if its true...

That's a tough situation. I've had something similar happen to me before when a buyer bought a copy of Prince of Persia Sands of Time (PS2) off of me. He had trouble loading up the disc and was getting disc read errors and asked for a refund. I asked if he could try it on another console - he did and it worked fine on his friend's PS2. I lucked out, because if that really did happen (it was post-feedback), I would have given him the refund and lost a few bucks.

Personally, I try to go out of my way to make sure the buyer is happy, because I was a buyer for a couple of years before I started selling. I try to be as empathetic as possible. I have given full refunds a couple of times, and I just chalk it up as a loss and move on. Just to cover my ass to possibly avoid certain situations, I have the phrase "All sales final" in my listing, so if there happens to be a dispute over something and they buyer is a real dickhead about it, I can just say that the problem is not with the item because it was tested first and worked properly and that the auction listing states all sales are final. By bidding on the auction they agreed to the seller's terms.

But. In this situation, it's a little sketchy. This isn't a $10 PS2 game; this is Suikoden II that you most likely sold for much, much more than that. You brought up a good point, Jared; how do you know this dude isn't just copying the game and trying to get a refund off of you? That makes perfect sense. His description seems a little too detail-oriented for it to be believable; most people would say the game freezes and that they would like a refund. A lot of times people will add extra details to try to make people believe their lies. I would ask him specifically what part of the game he's playing when it freezes, and what console he's playing it on. Technically, unless it's an original PS1 you can't guarantee 100% compatibility on whatever system he's playing on.

So, I guess my suggestions would be the following:

- Have him try another system
- Have him send proof as to where it's skipping
- If it's a PS2/PS3 you're not liable for compatibility issues

Here's what you do.

Tell him to download the free trial of Alcohol 120% or any other CD imaging utility you can think of.

Tell him to put the disc into his PC and attempt to rip an ISO of it.

If it completes successfully, the disc is fine, and his PSX/PS2/whatever is at fault.

If it encounters errors, then do what was suggested above - ask him to return the item and send him a refund once you get it.

Pain in the butt, but these things happen sometimes.

I know what this guy is talking about.  The 'cutscene' is actually a very long story segment that happens when you get the runes, but it's technically not a cut scene.  I had my copied disc skip several times on this part.  It is most likely the Playstation (if he's playing it on a PS1).  The PS2 seems to have been built better, so I don't know.  I just know that my Playstation skipped constantly on that game.

Well, I received a copy of Shining Force III Scenario 2 a while back that was unplayable due to a small but deep scratch on the disc (it was so deep that you could literally see where a portion of the disc surface was missing).  When I emailed the seller about the disc, I had specified exactly where it was freezing (the start of Zero's turn in the battle that you get him...geez, I still remember!) just because I must have reloaded the game at least 10 times trying to get it to work somehow.  The buyer might be pulling something but having been through that frustration before, I can believe that he knew exactly where it froze. 

On the flip side though, I've had a buyer of mine state that a game that I sold him wouldn't boot on his PS2 even though it was brand new and factory sealed.  The buyer agreed to test the game on another system before shipping it back to me.  Upon arrival, I tested the game myself, determined that the disc was indeed faulty, and sent out a replacement.   If your buyer isn't up to anything, then he should be pretty cooperative and willing to try things on his end before sending the game back.  Unless he's weird and he actually enjoys standing in line at the post office.

If I remember that scene correctly, there's no CG or anything but there's quite a bit of text and, uh, fog/special effects.  If he doesn't have another system to test the game on, he may need to tilt his PSX (about a 45 degree angle to the floor works great for mine) or even flip the thing upside down before the cutscene.  For the record, I've played Suikoden II (and Symphony of the Night for that matter) on a PS2 phat (SCPH-30001, circa June 2001) multiple times all the way through and never had a problem, so I'd say it was his system before it'd be a compatability issue.

If nothing still works and the buyer agrees to send the game back before getting a refund, I would request that he send the item back with insurance.  Delivery and signature confirmation are nice, but they don't much if the game never makes it back to you.  Also, you might want to make sure that the game that he sends back to you is actually the same one that you sent to him.  Not to say that this is the case here, but there's always the possibility of fraud in these situations.  Hope it works out and like everyone else is saying, don't let Paypal get involved if at all possible.

Hey all. Thank you so much for your kind help.

To avoid hassles with paypal/ebay I simply told him to return everything in the same condition (I actually threw in a free legit copy of Orrizonte for free)and I will refund him his money. He said no problem and will be mailing it soon. I figured, if the situations were reversed and I was not lying I would appreciate the seller just taking it back, so why would I squabble over a 100 dollar auction? I can test out the game myself and if it works for me I will re-auction it. He also claimed to be playing it on a PS1 so I am guessing it is more likely a system thing, but if that is all the guy has (and I do not want to start telling him what to do) I can't fault him for not owning a ps2 that it would work on, etc.

Amber thanks for the alcohol suggestion. And also thanks again to everyone else. This has to be the nicest overall message board on the internet.

hmm.. so alcohol IS the solution for everything...