Creative ZEN: http://us.creative.com/products/product … duct=16999

Available up to 32GB, for $250.

Creative ZEN Mozaic: http://us.creative.com/products/product … duct=17897

A little less expensive, but only available up to 8GB; it's selling point is the definitely the awesome checkerboard motif that covers its face.

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I've been meaning to post about this for awhile; these are Creative's most recent models, which just focus on playing music, though they do handle pictures and video.

If you want something reliable, cooperative, all-around subservient, and do anything you could possibly want your MP3 player to do, than these're it! They may not have the other functions of the iPhone, but they DO have more GB than any iPhone can give you, but forget that, if you want an MP3 player, and not an all-in-one gadget that has more functions than you'll ever use, than this is IT!

The Creative ZEN also has an acryllic case accessory (http://us.creative.com/products/product … mc_id=3862) that allows you to attach it to one of your belt loops (or anywhere else you could attach it), and carry it easily; it's small, and it's light, the face is about the size of a credit card, and it's not all that much wider along the edges than one, either!

If there's any reason I tout Creative's products over Zune and iPod, it's because Creative products allow you to create playlists, and save and name those playlists on-the-run; queue up an album, and if you want to add songs from another album, or remove songs from the playlist without deleting them from the player altogether, you can! Not only that, but you CAN delete music from the player on-the-go too, if you decide you want to change some things.

If you don't like the software, you can still select music via Windows Explorer, right click "Copy to Creative ZEN," and the music will transfer! Drag-and-drop works, too!

My Creative ZEN is my "GIRL!" It's like she's my own Professional Personal Digital Music Assistant (PPDMA)! I call her "Solaris," and I take her practically everywhere with me! *(^_^)*

Actually, the X-Fi is their latest model (I think it may have been before the Mosaic, but it was definitely out after the new-style flash Zen)...it has wifi downloads/chat and other audio options (something that restores the lost data to lossy files, like mp3). It's shaped similar to the newer Zens.

I recently got an 8 GB Zen as a backup player and it's great. The sound quality was the biggest reason and it definitely puts the Ipod to shame there. The front interface isn't as good as the iPod's, but the EQ is a godsend (although it still sounds better than an iPod on flat settings) Only issue is I got a white screen of death after I charged it the first time, but I just let the power run out, I charged it again and it seems to be fine. But unfortunately, I've read I might have one of the luckier players. Thankfully, I haves me a good two-year extended warranty on it.

Now I just need a 160 GB model and I'm set to go...The option to use SD cards is VERY attractive though.

I've been using the 16GB Zen model as my main MP3 player since just after Christmas.  My reasons for the purchase were the high memory capacity, the tactile controls (more on this later) and the simple fact that it wasn't an iPod, since after having both my iPods break on me in less than 2 years of use I had had enough.

I've learned to live with the Zen after several months of use but I don't like it enough to recommend it.  The specs and features look nice on paper but the navigation is too quirky for my tastes.  As a skeptic of Apple's products I hate to say this but compared to the non-Touch iPods it's just downright unintuitive.  Little things like having to press enter twice to play a track from a playlist, not having page up/down navigation to compensate for the lack of a scrollwheel, and being stuck with holding it horizontally (feels awkward for the longest time), make the simple task of navigating one's music collection more complicated than it should be.

Despite the tactile controls the buttons are so small I found my iPod nano easier to control when not looking at it.  The screen is quite nice but the limited codec and resolution support means you're stuck re-encoding if you want to watch most videos (something I can't be bothered to do).  And as for the SD card slot, unless a very recent firmware update has corrected this, the SD card's music is isolated from the main player's music library and the player functions are so debilitated for the SD card that it's not even worth bothering with.

Unfortunately I haven't used any other high-capacity, compact, non-Apple players to compare but unless you are dead-set against getting an iPod I wouldn't bother with the Zen.

I recently picked up a used ZEN Nomad (brick) after my original crapped out because Creative doesn't have anything above 8GB anymore without a silly colored screen. Yay for indiglo!

Glad to hear we actually have some Creative users around here!

Does your ZEN have a restart hole switch? If it does, you could've just used the end of a paper clip, or the tip of a mechanical pencil to press the switch to reboot it; reason it's in a recessed hole is so it doesn't get pressed accidentally. All three of my previous ZENs (Creative Nomad Jukebox ZEN XTRA, Creative Zen Vision: M, and my current Creative ZEN, simply called "Creative ZEN") all have a restart hole switch...can't imagine they'd take that out in a newer model...

That's how I feel about my 4gb Zen.

Yes, that is probably my second biggest gripe about the Zen. I could navigate the Zen Nano Plus blindfolded. More specifically, as I'm drifting off to sleep, which is how I use my mp3 player 95% of the time. It's hard to feel around on the Zen and find the buttons a lot of the time because they are not raised. I have the backlight set to something much lower than default (I think 20 or 30%), but I hate how it stays on all of the time. It never times out and goes dark. It doesn't allow me to navigate via folder structure. The software doesn't want me to organize my music that way, only by ID3 information like artist, album, etc.

I feel like I'm leaving something out, but I can't remember now.

Bottom line is it's a good mp3 player. I even bought mine refurbished and it's been great. I just don't know what else I would get because it's not going to be a Zune or iPod.

I have a Zen W 60 Gig... although it looks like they don't sell them anymore. A shame as it's a pretty decent video/music player. The screen is 4.3 inches, very nice and almost twice the size as the ones the current models offer. I'll grant that it's probably more fragile than the flash-based models, given the hard drive in it.

I always hear that HDD players are more fragile, but I've never had a problem with it. I still use my Nomad Extra (still kicking after 3+ years) and I couldn't be happier. Looking to get a new one at some point, but I wish Creative would release a larger storage model than 30GBs; and the ones that were larger they have stopped restocking like you said. I've almost filled my 40GB one so at some point I'm going to have to start removing stuff.