http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7686590.stm

Pretty bullshit, huh? I wonder if any of those shitwizards who decided this were Muslim to begin with?

I'm guessing no, since it seems that the decision came from Sony, which is a Japanese company. Granted, there might be Japanese Muslims, but I haven't heard of many.

It's pretty ridiculous in my opinion, but considering how well-received that drawing of Mohammad was, I can't say as I blame them.

I don't know what you're trying to say here? The song uses words from the Koran, and apparently music + Koran does not mix, at least according to some Muslims. Obviously recalling a game that's complete and is ready to be sold is a HUGE loss, and Sony would only do that if they felt it was absolutely necessary. They're trying to avoid any embarrassment/riots/losses/murders that might occur as happened when the aforementioned cartoon was published. I'm definitely very anti-censorship... which begs a question. Let's say a game had been released that had a song that could possibly offend some Christians, or Jews, or Buddhists, or Hindus. Do you think Sony would have reacted in the same way? I say no. What do you guys think?

cheers,

-avatar!

Personally, I disagree with Sony's decision to modify the game, but the company does have a valid business reason to do so: I can't find the link, but I remember reading somewhere that Sony is a well-respected brand in the Muslim world, and that the company wouldn't want to do something that could jeopardize the sales of its global product line in that part of the world.

Also, here's what the musician behind the offending track had to say: http://kotaku.com/5066316/man-behind-li … ite-normal

I understand the business side of it, so it's valid there at least. I guess my problem is just some guy (or people) decided what is offensive and what isn't for other folks, is all.

And yet the composer is a devout Muslim.

So, in my opinion, it's less about respecting a faith or religion and more pandering to a small minority of extremists. If it were simply the former, I would have little problem with it.

I'm not a religious guy but I think if there is a God and he really gives a rat's ass about the details like this, he'd have made himself much clearer.

You have a good point. I think Sony should not have censored the game. Maybe they're just scared... Let's face it, you had riots, murders, looting, over a CARTOON that appeared in a predominantly non-Muslim country in Europe! It's definitely a different culture than what you and I are used to. I do have to wonder though, what you mean by "small minority"? Again, if you look at the cartoon fiasco, the people who rioted were not a small minority, and they definitely demanded blood.

cheers,

-avatar!

I can't speak for Jay, but if you consider that current estimations of the number of Muslims in the world range from 1 to 1.5 billion people, I think its safe to say that the rioters (as well as other extremists) represent a very small minority. Or are you suggesting 50% or more of 1 billion+ people were involved in the riots? That would have been one mother of a blow-out.

True, the percentage was small, but just because people are not directly involved with the riots (ie not out there yelling and trashing things in the street) does not mean that they are moderate, free-thinking, tolerate people. Did you know that after the cartoons were published the Danish embassy got torched in numerous Muslim countries? Did you also know that because of that one cartoon in one newspaper, countries (the government, not just people) such as Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Iran...etc all boycotted Danish goods? Could you imagine the same thing happening here in the US? Nope, won't happen. In fact, there are plenty of anti-US cartoons, and plenty cartoons which some Christians feel are offensive printed in Europe, as well as here in the US. Still, we have freedom of speech! If a person wants to boycott a newspaper, or a country, or whatever, he or she has the right... but, I can't imagine the US boycotting all Danish goods because of one cartoon in one newspaper! So again, I ask you what "small minority" means? Even if you're not out there burning a car, that doesn't mean you don't want blood. Just this past June, there was an attempt to blow up the Danish embassy in Islamabad, due to the infamous 2005 cartoon ...

-avatar!

avatar!: you definitely have a point when you say that "a small minority" is not all there is to it. There is definitely much intolerance brewing in many Muslim countries, and we saw it flaring up in manifest form in the riots/attacks on embassies in connection to the aforementioned cartoon. But still, there's a danger in convincing yourself that a large percentage of Muslims are sympathetic to the rioters. Many Muslims undoubtedly seem to feel resentment towards the West, but there's a difference between that and engaging/supporting in riots/violence. For most people (whatever faith they belong to), just being angry about something is not a sufficient reason to go out in the streets and break stuff. Most people are moderates at heart, even the ones that happen to live in what we would consider to be non-moderate countries.

Reducing complex and multifaceted things is always risky business. Its as unwise to judge every member of the Islamic faith by the pictures we saw of the riots as it is for Muslims to judge all Western things after the images they see from the wars/invasions in Afghanistan and Iraq. Especially when you consider that those pictures are probably very selectively chosen, on both ends. Undoubtedly, there are many Muslims arguing that the West is corrupt/evil just based on what they see/hear from Iraq, in the same way many in the West seem to generalize broadly from the news coverage of the riots. There is more out there than the pictures we see on the TV-screen or in the newspapers (and I'm not saying that you're unaware of that, I'm just raising a point).

Hey Daniel, you're definitely right. It's important to think about things critically. I also agree, there's lots of resentment against the West in Muslim countries. My point was that Sony wants to be cautious, because there does seem to be "a lot" of Muslim fanatics out there. Of course, they might just be a tiny percentage, but even a small percentage of 1 billion people is "a lot"!

cheers,

-avatar!

Yeah, I know. There's definitely a lot of touchiness in many Muslim countries when it comes to religious topics/imagery. It seems like its something many Islamic societies are struggling with. For the record, I'm definitely against censorship - people should be able to say, express, publish, etc. what they want without fear of retaliation of any kind. But, we should also remember that there was a time when Western societies were also pretty intolerant, and the fact that a society is intolerant doesn't entail that it will always remain so. For example, the US seems to have overcome it's anti-Japanese sentiments from WWII (otherwise we probably wouldn't have a forum like this one).

The Muslim world is not a great undivided monolith, there's a lot of diversity in the 50+ Islamic countries. If anything, the story I linked to in the beginning of the thread shows this - the musician is a devout Muslim himself, and he seems to be the biggest critic of Sony's decision to purge his song from their game. Despite being a devout Muslim, he doesn't strike me as someone who would get pissed off by the ban and go out and loot/riot because of it. In fact, he looks like a pretty easy-going dude.