Frankly, I'm just glad that Bush years are about to be over, regardless of the winner.  I went for Obama after losing most of the hope I had for McCain when he ceased to be the "maverick" he once was and became Bush 2 to get more votes.  Still have a lot of respect for the guy, though, especially after his classy and eloquent concession speech.

Meanwhile, in the land of freedom and liberty, it appears that one of the few states willing to escape the dark ages and give equal rights to more of its citizens has ripped them away again.  Sad.

California's Proposition 8? That was a big blow.

Yep!

well, pouring all our tech efforts/funds into unrestrained nanotechnology to bring about gray goo sounds promising.

if we tried, we could also probably bring about a global nuking of every foot of the planet, although it'd be kind of mean to the fish.

in the sense that I'm not even remotely a conservative, yes

Where do you live? Are the people there more open minded? I'm sick of going to work and hearing people spew racist crap, moaning about Obama winning. If I had a nickel for everytime I heard "I can't believe a they made a n-word/'crude term for muslum' president" and "that n-word will get my guns when he pries them out of my cold dead hands" each day leading up and after the election I'd be one rich motherf... you get the point. Guess that's what I get for living in redneck country ~_~

Also, this is kind of off topic but then it isn't - what's the deal with the hard on Rednecks seem to have with the confederate flag? Is their love for it as shallow (and racist) as I suspect or is there more to it?

Edit:

Also, also this is kind on off/on topic, but has anyone else read "America (The Book)" from the Daily Show's John Stewart? I borrowed this "mock textbook" from my sister a while back and I loved it; I was able to score a new copy at the local book store for a measly $5 off the discount rack and re-reading it around election time put a big smile on my face.

Found this in a (community) college library, pretty fun read in an Onion-ish sort of  way.

That said, it has one unpleasant surprise that I feel like warning people about. To quote Wikipedia:

I can't say for sure what damage will result from a heavily Democratic Congress paired with a cooperative president, but we're doing reasonably well for the time being. To say that the country's in ruins is just silly.

Wouldn't that require an invasion? If so, aren't you essentially offering a justification for the Iraq War?

I thought this was funny; guess I'm weird, perverted or both. Whatever the case, I wouldn't let something like that detract from my enjoyment even if I did find it in bad taste. I don't let the "ghostly warble" in Brave Fencer Musashi's "Frost Dragon" turn me off from what is essentally a killer track in every other way.

this is kind of an odd comparison to pictures of senior nudists

Bush Jr's war? No.

According to Wil McCarthy, that is called a disassembler fog. It's a suspension of microscopic deconstruction mechanisms used to recycle objects too large to break down by teleportation machines. In the wrong hands, a disassembler fog could bring about the gray goo you describe. But there would likely be anti-disassembler fogs, used to deconstruct (or re-program) rogue clouds.

All this grey goo business is really nothing more than mankind's primeval fear of creepy crawly bugs. I looked at a summary of the novel Bloom, and it looked dull. Sure, the premise is good, and it could have been set-up as a great story, perhaps with some Poe/Lovecraft like occurrences. Instead, it ends up being about conspiracies, sapient life, transcending, yadda yadda... YAWN... this is why I typically don't read science fiction. People get all these good ideas, and then they ruin it by biting WAY more than they can chew, and trying to hit you over the head with some sort of moral/ethical message. BORING. I think the last good science fiction book I read was Dune. I heard the sequels are horrific though...

cheers,

-avatar!

I haven't read Bloom yet. I've only read his Queendom of Sol quadrilogy. Dune is one of the most highly regarded science fiction novels, but I found it dull. I'll never forget the stillsuits or the sandworms, though.

  Your opinion of science fiction might change if you check out Farmer. I'd recommend Flesh as a good starting point. It's similar to Planet of the Apes (movie version), where astronauts leave the Earth and come back to find things quite different. You already know the difference in Planet of the Apes. In Flesh, the difference is that there is a new religion. And it's nothing like anything I've read anywhere else.

  Just a note about Farmer: He was the author that inspired Heinlein to write Stranger in a Strange Land, since he was the first to have aliens and humans engaged in intercourse. Farmer's books tend to be very open about sex and have large amounts of it, so steer clear of his work if you need your characters to keep their pants on.

I voted Obama too.

And being the unabashed cynic I am, I do not really expect any kind of major reform.  I'd love to wrong though.

Domestic issues aside, I'm hoping to see more positive international relations... a totally revamped foreign policy.  A more mutualistic relationship with other countries as opposed to the hegemonic relationship the US currenly enjoys with most other nations today would go a long way toward making the world a much better place.  Obama can start by dismantling AFRICOM - which is just a disaster waiting to happen.

Other than that, I can honestly say I'm impressed with the American people on this one.  And witnessing such a monumental and historic event was really awesome.

Amateur. Real cynicism is believing that the political process is fundamentally flawed and that any major reform it produces is likely to be worse than the status quo. And a real cynic, knowing that the Democrats were almost certain to retain control of Congress, would have voted for McCain in order to create political gridlock.

Wouldn't a true cynic just have stayed at home and not voted at all? Especially if he/she thought the political process is fundamentally flawed.

Good counterpoint, Daniel.  While I won't go so far as to *not* vote given how long and hard folks have struggled to make sure everyone could have that right back in the 1950's/60's, I will say that being cynical and choosing to vote aren't in anyway mutually exclusive.  Of course, it seems Brandon and Daniel have different operational definitions of "cynicalism" within the context of American politics.

Kind of getting in late on this, but never matter...

Me, I voted for the guy who isn't going to fuhq the economy up anymore than it already is, and maybe hopefully actually do something about improving it. Too bad he didn't win.

I'd seriously like to hear what everyone thinks Obama is going to do? Besides take money away from people who actually earned it, and turn the whole country into a consistent ghetto like South Africa. Hate the wealthy as much as you want, but you have to admit, it's people with money who support the economy. All I see him doing is promoting more government regulation that's going to put more strangulation on an already suffocating economy.

All over the news now, I hear people are actually saying, "Oops, y'know what, maybe I shouldn't have voted for Obama." "We still don't know who Obama IS or what he's going to DO." I've heard people singing him praises, but they can never explain to me why they love him so damn much.

As for the whole, "I'm gonna move to Canada!!" tantrum, I'd move to Canada or Europe, but they're even more liberal over there than the liberals are in the U.S.; and government's REALLY big on censorship in the EU, too.

Honestly, I can't help feeling that as many people voted for Obama as they did because they were afraid people would call them racist for not voting for him just because he's black. And some people, I can't help feeling that they voted for him BECAUSE he's black (reverse racism, if you will; discriminating POSITIVELY against a race is still discrimination, e.g., "Asians are good at math").

I mean, hey, a lot of people DID NOT vote for McCain because of his age. And a lot of people DID NOT vote for McCain because he had a female vice prez. You want to tell me that's NOT discrimination?

I really WOULD appreciate an intelligible counter argument, y'know, one that doesn't call me "Ignorant" and doesn't explain why, or an argument that doesn't make defamatory remarks or other personal attacks on my character, like "You're a stupid redneck!" or stuff like that.

...

Other than that, this whole election has pretty much turned John Stewart's Daily Show and The Colbert Report into total shit. They used to be funny when they ridiculed and satirized both parties, but now they're just singing blind praises to the left, and making REALLY barbed, harsh, and unnecessary comments about the right. And neither are funny or entertaining.

Yo, Bernhardt, that's a pretty heavy statement and I'll give you the only answers I have.  I am not by any means particularly well educated in these political matters, but I still believe I carry a slight edge over my peers.  It's a half-assed way to be, but I doubt most of America is very different.  Please note that these are my reasons for voting and I do not speak for, or on behalf of, anyone else.  Further, I will not look up info for the purposes of this post as I think this is a post about why I voted the way I did, rather than justifying the vote I cast. Some info may be wrong or incomplete, but whatever the case, it was the same info I used when making my decision to vote for Obama.

The first specific issue issue you raised is about the economy.  I thought neither major candidate (Obama or McCain) had a solid plan to make good on our economy.  I am heavy into fiscal responsibility and if a candidate can't both balance the budget and pay down the debt then I think you have a bad economic policy.  Obama seemed to promise alot here and I know he can't deliver. Whenever pressed for what he would do about (blank) is answer was to spend.  So, in short, Obama got poor marks here.

His saving grace?  He seemed big on promoting alternative energy and eco-friendly power.  I think developing the infrastructure for these things will make the difference between remaining a world super-power over the next century and being a struggling nation plagued with economic and foreign policy issues.   

McCain's answer seemed to be a tapping of American resources, which seemed to amount to oil and coal.  At least I never really heard him talking of much else.  I suspect that's why Palin became his running mate as Alaska has alot of vested interest in tapping into their oil supplies.  I am against drilling in Anwar, and it seemed like that was the direction things were heading here so that was a bit of a smear.  This energy policy seemed like a continuation of what we already have rather than a reaching forth to explore new potential and new technologies.

Back to economy, I'm not sure about Obama's plan.  When I consider the widening gap between our middle class and our very wealthy I am inclined to side with Obama.  I want to see that gap narrow up a bit and afford more opportunity to a wider base of citizens.  However, with the way things are, I'm not sure that now is the time for a plan like Obama's.  By raising taxes on the wealthy I'm afraid that will only serve to drive our companies out of the US at an even more accelerated rate and leave even more citizens without the jobs they need.  However, as this American exodus is already under way and unchecked, I suppose I probably don't have much to loose by letting Obama try things his way.

I don't recall ever hearing McCain's plan as he seemed more interested in attacking Obama's plan.  Maybe he had one, I don't know.

Moving on.  I haven't heard the whole "moving to Canada" bit since the talk of reinstating the draft was dropped a few years ago, so I can't really comment on that.  Not that I care, if people would be happier there I say go for it. 

As for voting for him because he's black, or reverse racism, or anything else along these lines I really only have this to say... "Obama is the whitest black man I've ever seen."  Race didn't play much of a factor for me, but I think that is the in vogue thing to say right now so you can believe it or not at your discretion.

That whole thing about McCain's age was total BS and obvious propaganda.  That didn't factor in at all.  To be honest I voted McCain four years ago when he ran against Bush.  I liked the way he spoke and conducted himself, however he seemed a bit hawkish.  I couldn't say that about him this campaign though.  It seemed kinda' like he sold out and was willing to just say what was needed to win the election.  I didn't see in him the same noble dignity which I thought he possessed four years ago.  This kinda' made me think that it was really McCain who I didn't know.

His vice presidential choice didn't help him.  In short, I didn't like her.  Whenever she spoke, I felt like I was being talked down to, or slandered even!  I hated all the "[name] the [Occupation]" talk e.g. (Joe the Plumber).  And that remark she made about community organizers not having real responsibility really left me with a bitter taste since I would kinda' look up to a community organizer and at least recognize their efforts.  Also McCain, whenever asked about her, would say "I'm proud of her."  That, to me, is not something you say to your peers.  That's something you might say to a child or a friend if you wanted to bolster their confidence, but not for a vice-presidential running mate-- someone like that should command respect.  If not for her I wouldn't have particularly minded if McCain took office despite my vote, but I solidly didn't want to hear her talk for the next four years.

What I've presented here is not an argument, it is simply an account of why I voted the way I did.  Further, I do not intend to defend myself, so any challenges made against me will go unanswered.  I do this not to deny discussion, but rather to protect myself from a discourse which invariably back-slides into personal attack.

Connary for president in 2012!

I'd like to know exactly what you expected McCain was going to do?  McCain himself has admitted that economics are not his strong suite and members of his own party even didn't feel the need for his assistance when he forced himself during his "campaign suspension" upon the discussions for the bailout package.  During the peak of the crisis (or of it coming to light at least) McCain was throwing out a new proposal every day without having apparently thought them over for more than the previous 24 hours, whereas Obama at least stuck to his message and showed some semblance of knowing what he was doing.

Here's your baseless "Obama is a socialist" fear mongering.  Obama's stated tax policies are to support the middle class and yes, damn him, even the lower class.  It is those two groups that are struggling right now and look to do so for the foreseeable future, not the wealthy.  Tax rates for the upper class are meant to go near the levels they were eight years ago.  Back when, you know, the country was prosperous.

I don't hate the wealthy and hope to even join them eventually but it is the middle class and working lower class who keep the country running.  Keep them struggling for long and see how well the country prospers.  It's getting a taste of it already and by all accounts the results aren't so favorable.

With a bit more financial regulation and banks not dealing out massive loans on a whim as a regular practice with funding they didn't actually have, we wouldn't have this massive financial mess that is bringing the U.S. and global economy down.

That's the most ridiculous argument I've ever heard.  Your vote is completely private and you can vote for whoever you want without anyone knowing any better.  You may get polled after but if you're worried about what they or your friends are going to say you can just lie about it.  Who changes their vote because they're ashamed of what their friends will think anyway?  Nobody.

As was the opposite.

If you look at the support Hillary Clinton received on the Democratic side and the strong support Palin apparently received from the Republican base I think it's a stretch to argue that Palin being a women cost McCain a lot of votes.

What did cost McCain a lot of votes was that his VP pick is a single-minded ultra-conservative convinced of her rightness despite having no clue about the national economy or global policy or even the basics of American democracy.  Which when you look at it on the surface at least is a lot like the president we've had for the past eight years, and understandably people aren't happy with that.

You can talk about age discrimination but the presidential candidate's age and health is a completely valid concern, especially when his VP pick is clearly completely unprepared to lead the country and was chosen purely in an attempt to widen the candidate's demographic and appeal to the party base.  Have you noticed the extent to which presidential candidates age over their terms?  George W. and Clinton were both quite young entering office and fared pretty well (although the physical change is still pretty evident) but look at what happened to Bush Sr. over just four years.

I wouldn't mind seeing one for your position, seeing as how the whole base of your argument is that people voted for Obama because he's black or a regurgitation of your typical Fox News "Obama is a socialist" spiel without any evidence to back it.

I admire McCain as a patriot and his long service to the country (although it seems his character is somewhat overestimated) and I supported him over Bush in 2000 and favored him over his opponents in the primary.  But when he won the Republican ticket and commenced to sell out to the party base and go against many of the principles he said he stood for, and run a shamefully dirty campaign, and choose a frightening candidate for VP then run an increasingly haphazard campaign once the tide began to turn against him, then the choice for the next president of the United States became increasingly clear.

I think that's the primary reason McCain lost. People are just fed-up with Bush and his failing policy. McCain appeared to be more of the same.

Agreed. McCain is a hero, but unfortunately his campaign was nasty, and he no longer had that independent edge to him. As for Obama, I'm not singing his praises just yet. I just hope he does a good job and gets us out of this mess. He has 4 years to prove himself.

cheers,

-avatar!

Yeah, that whole mess began during the Clinton administration...hey, people need houses they can't afford! Let's MAKE the banks give out loans to people who won't even be able to pay it back!

FOR CRYING OUT LOUD, it's not like McCain's rolling around in a wheelchair, much less walking around with a stick!

Riiiggghhhttt...BOTH candidates ran the same "My opponent helps fund the evil oil corporations and drives up gas prices!" spiel...and Obama was far more defamatory about McCain.

You did have some people saying Obama was in league with the terrorists, but McCain was the one to tell them that wasn't true.

What? I can't recall a single McCain campaign commercial that wasn't attacking Obama, while I can only recall one Obama one that slandered McCain (the one that directly compared him to Bush).

Wow though...I'm surprised Adam responded to your flamebait post in full instead of outright deleting it. Playing the racism card really hurt your argument and "Honestly, I can't help feeling that as many people voted for Obama as they did because they were afraid people would call them racist for not voting for him just because he's black. " is seriously one of the dumbest and most paranoid things I've read in years (just as I think the countless "OMG, first black prez...hist0rical momentz!" news stories after Obama's win were pointless and sensationalistic nonsense). My country's economy is in bad shape and I'm caught in the middle of it, I'm voting for the one that seems focused on fixing the issues and not the one hellbent on attacking the other guy and putting up smokescreens with wordy, useless answers during public debates. And really, he can have martian horns and green skin and a spaceship for all I care.

What I would really appreciate is some proof to back up your arguments and less useless hyperbole like that bit about turning "the whole country into a consistent ghetto like South Africa."

Higher taxes on the wealthy is an issue that's never going to be bridged, so let's just leave that aside.  But your faith that your man McCain can help the economy is staggering.  This is the same man who "suspended" his campaign in September for the stated purpose of helping to broker a bailout deal, mostly did nothing while bailout talks imploded, then declared the mission accomplished and resumed his campaign.

I am curious as to the scenario you imagine in which more regulation will put more strain on the economy.  Do you have a particular scenario in mind, or are you merely wedded to the dogma of deregulation?

How could you possibly know that to be true?  It seems like pure speculation to me.  Please present your proof if I am mistaken.

Really?  What did Obama do that even compares with the McCain campaign strategy of casting suspicion on Obama?  And are we talking about the same John McCain who thought it germane to ask about the extent of Obama's relationship with William Ayers during the last presidential debate?  I don't know--it seems to me that constantly highlighting the association between Obama and Ayers counts as insinuating that Obama is in league with terrorists.  I don't recall McCain ever repudiating Palin's remark that Obama "palls" around with terrorists.

and

...pretty much sum up my thoughts on McCain.  If this election hadn't seemed to turn him into a totally different person than a man I've always held a GREAT deal of respect for, I might have considered him.  Hopefully now that he's back in the senate he'll actually start pushing policies that prove he's the "maverick" that he so obviously no longer was during the campaign.

.

Oh man, it's like I'm reading Free Republic or Conservapedia.

I can respect that; for that matter, I'm sure there are plenty people here who'll argue on your behalf.

Thing is, I support self-sufficient, clean energy; I mean, hey, I'd like to get the house outfitted with some solar panels, but as far as developing alternative fuels, they're talking 10-20 years before coming up with a solution; until then, we need oil, and if our Arab friends don't want to oblige, we have to turn to ourselves, for oil, for coal, for nuclear.

...

As for why I voted for McCain, I guess what factored in the most was experience. McCain had military, and consequently leadership experience. Obama, a community organizer. Now, not to talk down on community organizers; I understand they do quite a bit, but compared to someone with military experience, a soldier's been through SHITLOADS more than a community organizer, and in comparison, a community organizer might as well be someone who's on the PTA (Parent-Teacher Association) of a local school.

...

Honestly though, THE REAL REASON I think most voted for Obama as they did is because they were tired of Bush. But why were they tired of Bush?

If you want to talk to me about the war in Iraq, it had to be fought; sure, we had to spend a shitload of $$$, but how many people died in 9/11, and you just want to ignore that? Imagine if we'd left that unchecked, and another city/more cities would've been struck!

9/11 happened early on in Bush's first term in office (2001) after the guy had been elected in 2000. But before 9/11, what did anyone have to complain about?

True, the economy has been suffering over here, but the man had to fight a war! And now, we're in a post-war clean-up period.

....Are you serious? No thinking person should still be caught by the misconception that Iraq had anything to do with 9/11.

If nothing else, take Dubya's own words for it.

Riiiggghttt, so what was the part about how terrorists attacked us and killed 3000 people, if not 9/11?

Or more clearly, I should ask, then why WERE we in Iraq, then, if not to combat terrorists?

You're actually taking that asshole's words at face value? The only reason I posted that jumbled mess of an attempt at justification was to remind you that not even Bush is still claiming that Iraq was involved in 9/11. But I guess that doesn't take anything away from your stance?

The excuse initially given was that Iraq had or was about to acquire weapons of mass destruction. Before the US invaded Iraq, there were no "terrorists" there, it was a stable, centralized dictatorship. Thus, the reason for attacking the country can't logically have been "to combat terrorists", as those weren't around at that time. The reasoning is the equivalent of claiming to save a non-burning house from the fire by setting it on fire.

I hate to break it to you or any other McCain supporter but being tortured doesn't automatically make you a good leader.