A few people around here are teachers, I believe... so maybe this will sound familiar.
Well, as a graduate student, I have to teach undergraduates. It's amazing, how some of them are SUPER spoiled! You tell them to follow the rules in the handout, then they don't do it, then when they lose points, then they ask you to "reconsider"... hello, what do they think this is?! Oh, and the excuses some of them come up with are hilarious! and, to make matters worse, I'm at a very "prestigious" institution (and I do feel very lucky to be here), but if these are among the best and brightest in the world, I ponder the fate of our society when these people are going to be our leaders... scary stuff. Anyway, thought I'd bitch for a while Those of you who teach or have taught, or have gone to school and have similar stories, feel free to share!

cheers,

-avatar!

If they were teaching I'm sure they wouldn't allow a student to disregard a guideline (a fact you may want to bring up) so yeah, I completely see your point. It all boils down to people to people trying to do anything to cut a corner or two.

I'm currently a student and empathized with a particular teacher of mine who recently had a chance to hear aired grievances following a fallout of poor grades on a recent exam. I was among the few who sided with him when these "victimized" students received bad grades. One "poor student" lamented how the teacher didn't write notes, verbatim, on the chalkboard behind him. He then went to make the perfect rebuttal, defending his lecturing style (pardon the puns) of not having his ass teach the class.

Way I see it, the better you make yourself accountable for your own failings and understand what your teacher wants or expects out of you, the better off you are. Dog is too rare to blame for eating your homework. I blame the overly liberal, forgiving structure in place by most teachers from public to early college years -- I more you tighten the belt earlier, the less slacking they'll come to expect down the road.

Though a stark example, I managed to catch a scene from some TV movie which featured a stern James Avery (guy who played Uncle Phil on Fresh Prince, Shredder in TMNT cartoon) who plays a ruthless, no BS, freshmen English teacher and thought 'man, what college would be like with more drill sargeant teachers like him.'

I currently attend a community college right now and having spent a good deal of time in both university and community colleges, it's a reality that some of these children really think they're still in the cradle of social high school culture -- not exclusive to community college. If tricklings of that attitude persist at most four-years, you're out the door. I ought to know...

64% of high school students cheat?!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081130/ap_ … dishonesty

that seems like a ridiculously high number... of course one question is what constitutes cheating? Also, I wonder how this statistic compares to other countries? When do students begin to cheat, and why do they get away with it? Anyway, I know there is a lot of cheating that goes on in Academia, but personally I always suspected the numbers to be much smaller. Of course I am thinking about higher education...

ah well, thoughts?

cheers,

-avatar!

edit: So, what do you think should happen to students who cheat?

All of my college instructors suck.

Their syllabuses and criterion are always so vague.

Sometimes, I'm not sure if I even have all the textbooks I need for the class, especially if it's not listed in the syllabus, and the instructor only gives once an off-handed comment about needing a particular obscure book.

I have to go through a shitload of bureaucracy and red tape just to figure out what an assignment's supposed to be about (the topic I'm supposed to discuss), when it's due (okay, so we're in Week 10 of the semester...now, would that be Monday the 4th, or Monday the 11th?), and how I'm supposed to submit it (via e-mail, in-person/in-class, or slip it into their faculty mailbox).

Many only check their e-mails every 3 days, so if I want an answer, I need to seriously think ahead, and figure out quickly what I have questions about, because many of my assignments are due within a week after they're issued, in other words, I'm only going to have one chance for any e-mail questions to be answered before the assignment's due.

Many of my instructors aren't even AWARE of half of the assignments they have assigned in their syllabuses...I just asked an instructor whether a particular assignment was due next class, and she said "No," but sure enough, a look at the syllabus, and a discussion with other students reveal that IS in fact due.

P.S. Having graduate students teach undergrad classes is pure ASS. Sorry Avatar, no particular offense to you, but I HAVE NOT HAD good experiences with ANY of my GSIs. Just because one wants to continue into grad school doesn't mean they're capable of teaching a class.

I'm so glad I graduate next semester...

Long story short, SOME undergraduate students actually have LEGITIMATE complaints.

Not like I'm slacking off...

Give them a higher grade for understanding how things work in the real world.

I was a chemistry grad student about ten years ago, and I certainly agree with avatar! that some students felt entitled to get good grades.  When I was a lab TA, I was a very strict grader, and I had students who would constantly complain about how I graded the lab reports.  One of them wanted me to sit down with her when the course was almost over and go over EVERY ONE OF HER LAB REPORTS to justify every single point that was taken off (even though I would always make a comment to that end in the margins, like "-1, sig. figs.").  When the final lab exam occurred, though, the students that I had performed better than the students in the other lab sections.

When I was a lecture TA, it was so much easier.  Instead of being the adversary, I was the ally.  I wasn't grading anything anymore; I was just going into the lectures in greater detail and helping them to understand the concepts better.  I don't think I had any complaints from the students then.  Somehow, having the power of affecting their grade made me the enemy, and when that power was gone, so was the animosity.

Man, when I was working at my degree in Electrical Engineering, it felt like almost 100% of the students "cheated".  Now, I'm not sure what defines cheating, but we all had old tests and study materials from previous students that were our study guides.  I could've gotten through without them, but when taking 13-16 courses a semester while working at UPS in the morning and raising a newborn baby, I'll take whatever I could get. 

To quote Chris Rock:  "I'm not saying I condone it, but I understand."

Say what?! I don't see how it's physically possible to take 13-16 courses a semester?? Most schools have limits of about 6 courses, and most students can't really handle more than 4-5 courses. So, I'm curious how you performed this rather miraculous course load!

cheers,

-avatar!

Sorry, I meant credits.  0_o

my junior year in college, the university converted to a fixed tuition for 12-18 credit hours, so i took the full 18 for the last 3 semesters.. it was a real bitch

My older brother's actually a GSI and TA, too; got tired of students complaining about their grades on their papers, so he just became an easy grader; those students would then finally get their asses handed to them on the exams.

I don't know, I think a lot of times students mistake a teacher's sternness for deadlines and guidelines as jackassary when there is something more behind it, like teaching responsibly and pushing them and their ability forward.

When I went to school in Pittsburgh for graphic design there was one teacher that ticked off a lot of students, he'd be like "do this over" or "you can do better" and yeah, he even ticked me off when he did it to me a few times, but you know what? I swallowed my pride and did it over again... once I had to do something three times. Man was I angry, but once I saw the final product (piece of art) I knew what he was trying to do and I appreciated it. Many of the students – who thought and acted like they were still in high school – never understood it, took everything personally and formed grudges against him.

The only bad part of the story? When are school had to let a few teachers go he was first on the list. Ok, so let me get this straight - keep the old fogy who can barely relate to the students he teaches but lay off the teacher who isn't afraid to push his students to the best of their ability. That kind of crap is why the school no longer exists.

http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/GRPS_giv … dents_an_H

"It's not a second chance," Helder told 24 Hour News 8. "It's like a 22nd chance."

Damn... something here is most definitely SNAFU!

"We're not out to get anybody," he said, "but we do think that students need to learn some responsibility."

SO very well said

I'm glad not everyone is so screwed up...

cheers,

-avatar!