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Jodo Kast Jan 15, 2009 (edited Jan 15, 2009)

I need these questions answered (if possible) for research I am doing. All of these have a definitive answer, yet that answer may not be known. Thus, I am posting my questions here and in other places, to get a variety of answers, or opinions. I'm going to do some minimal research of my own, but this is a topic I am not very familiar with, so I need to glean from others. I have no idea when I will actually use this information, but I suspect I will need to use some of it eventually.

Questions about The Bible:

1. Who were the authors?

2. What languages did the authors use when writing it? (My knowledge - Hebrew and Aramaic - may be more, though)

3. In what part of the world was it written? (My knowledge - Middle East?)

4. What material was it written on?

5. How was it preserved?

6. In what year or years was it written? What was the original release date?

7. How many other books were written at the same time the Bible was written? What is/are the title(s)?

8. What was the motivation for writing it? (Most people were illiterate, so my suspicion is that the authors did not intend to get rich.)

9. Who originally came up with the idea? In other words, is The Bible based on previously written material or is it original? (I want to know if the character in the story known as "God" was made up or if it was borrowed from previously written material. The inventor of "God" is similar to the inventor of addition; simple idea, big impact.)

10. Into what language or languages was it initially translated after having been written?

11. Is the original copy extant?

12. How did people get The Bible when it was first released? (I would presume that bookstores did not exist, simply because they did not make books as we know them back then. Furthermore, any additional copies beyond the "first print" would had to have been hand copied. I'm just curious as to how people acquired written material before regular books and the printing press.)

13. Are there any surviving reviews from the time of the original release date? Did anyone even write a review?

Jay Jan 15, 2009

Wikipedia will likely have a bunch of your answers - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible

Though I imagine many of the answers will simply be "we're not sure".

allyourbaseare Jan 15, 2009

Jodo Kast wrote:

13. Are there any surviving reviews from the time of the original release date? Did anyone even write a review?

I don't know if you meant this as a joke but I busted up when I read it!

absuplendous Jan 15, 2009

Thousands of people throughout time have spent lifetimes searching for these answers, and continue to do so. You aren't going to find a concise and/or definitive answer for any of them. The only one I can easily point you in the right direction for is #12--a good lesson in the history of the book covers distribution of the Bible, as the printing press was a major catalyst for getting Bibles into the homes of the masses. Beforehand, they had to be copied by hand, which wasn't feasible for most people (especially since most people were illiterate).

Idolores Jan 15, 2009

allyourbaseare wrote:
Jodo Kast wrote:

13. Are there any surviving reviews from the time of the original release date? Did anyone even write a review?

I don't know if you meant this as a joke but I busted up when I read it!

Me too. Kast, your humour is like a stealth plane or something. big_smile

Ramza Jan 15, 2009

Here's what I got for you...

1. Who were the authors?
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Sources vary. But if I had to take a stab at it...

all of the "Historical" books of the Old Testament (Torah up through Chronicles, Ezra, and Nehemiah) were likely held as oral traditions until during/after Babylonian Exile (approx 500 BCE) when the Israelite priesthood wrote it down. When Ezra says "oh look, we FOUND the book of the law!" he probably meant, "oh look, we got a written copy! Sweet!" Tradition holds that Moses wrote the Torah...he probably didn't write it though. He probably just told people what went down. Again, Oral tradition.

the Poetry/Wisdom literature (Psalms/Proverbs/SoS/Ecclesiastes/Job) who knows. Probably some guys sitting in a field tending to sheep or something. Tradition says David did Psalms, and his son Solomon did most of the rest. I wouldn't doubt that Solomon or a close, wise friend of his helped write Ecclesiastes. And David and his court probably wrote most of Psalms. Other than that, I put my hands in the air.

The rest of the Old Testament are the Prophets. For the most part, I would hold that the name attached to the book is the author. However, as many scholars have noted, it is likely that the book of Isaiah was written by three different people during different times. I think this is probably true.

2. What languages did the authors use when writing it? (My knowledge - Hebrew and Aramaic - may be more, though)
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Hebrew and Greek, sir! Aramaic is what Jesus spoke, but the original transcription itself had it all translated to Greek. Which means that from the start, Jesus' words were being filtered through language translation. A few of his phrases were left in Aramaic: "eloi eloi lama sabacthani" (or something to that effect) was a famous one.

There are also some small sections of the Bible where the original transcriptions quote something from another language. I believe there may be some Persian found in the historical texts post-exile (Ezra/Nehemiah, maybe 2nd Chronicles).

3. In what part of the world was it written? (My knowledge - Middle East?)
---
Modern-day Israel, Iraq, Iran, Egypt, Greece, Italy, and some areas bordering those countries.

4. What material was it written on?
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Wow...I don't know. If it is to be believed, the first bits were written on stone tablets (10 commandments). Other than that, maybe some Papyrus, and some animal skins? Whatever was used for Scrolls in 800 BC - 100 AD would have been it.

5. How was it preserved?
---
the material, or the language? As I said, it's likely that almost all of the Old Testament started as oral tradition, and the same argument can and should be made for the Gospels. After that, people made lots of copies. In the post-Biblical-era, it was preserved best in the Monasteries of Europe (including the British Isles).

6. In what year or years was it written? What was the original release date?
---
The Bible as it stands now? That would be 430 AD, the council of Chalcedon. Most people think it's the council of Nicea, but they aren't paying attention. Nicea brought about a creed, and some filtering down of texts that would be declared "false/heterodox" Gospels. But the full canonization of the Bible took place at Chalcedon. An interesting note: Revelation just BARELY made it in. Jerome thought it had no place in the Bible proper.

In terms of writing, I hold to the fact that the first writings started during the time of the Prophets and exile/post-exile, around 600-500 BC. The writing probably ended by 110-120 AD with Revelation and the formation of the "proper" synoptic Gospels of Matthew/Mark/Luke (earlier versions exist, but they were collated to cover events fairly similarly in the early 2nd century).

7. How many other books were written at the same time the Bible was written? What is/are the title(s)?
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If you include little historical records, PLENTY. In terms of large, thoughtful works, we have all the greats: Gilgamesh, Iliad, Odyssey, everything written by Plato/Aristotle/other Greek Philosophers, all the way down to Ovid and Cicero (Roman times). I don't know what Asian writings exist alongside it.

8. What was the motivation for writing it? (Most people were illiterate, so my suspicion is that the authors did not intend to get rich.)
---
They wrote it for historical preservation and to have a way to "prove out" their oral tradition, so they could say "YES, this is what we've believed and held to for generations." Such is the case for all religious texts, yes? Well, maybe not L. Ron Hubbard. He did it to get rich. tongue

9. Who originally came up with the idea? In other words, is The Bible based on previously written material or is it original? (I want to know if the character in the story known as "God" was made up or if it was borrowed from previously written material. The inventor of "God" is similar to the inventor of addition; simple idea, big impact.)
---
I wouldn't boil down concepts of God and a simple mathematical function to some sort of similarity. Nor would I necessarily argue that God was invented. But many scholars believe the Jews founded monotheism proper (though there are historical contenders, I'm told. The Jews won the popularity contest with Yahweh though, to be sure). As for the Bible being based on previously written material, the myriad accounts of a global flood in tons of cultures suggests that either a) they all borrowed it from one original source or b) a large flood actually happened and everyone had their own take on it. I think it might be b), and I think the flood may have been the eastern end of what is now the Mediterranean (and the filling of the Black Sea...or something like that).

Other possible borrowed themes? Well, the whole Jesus resurrection "Son of God" stuff...there are theories that it all goes back to CRAZY ancient pagan and other polytheistic teachings. See "Eastern Mystery Cult." Or the Zeitgeist video on YouTube. I don't buy into it, but it's certainly compelling evidence.

10. Into what language or languages was it initially translated after having been written?
---
Latin. Interestingly enough, the Church of the time (7th century) did this so it could be in the vulgar (common) tongue. They WANTED everyone who was literate to be able to read this. Over time, that motivation was LOST, and as Latin went out of use everywhere except the church, the Roman Catholic church fought *hard* to keep everything in Latin, despite the fact that people spoke other languages.

The Eastern Orthodox Church kept a Greek translation, and early missionaries probably had sections of Scripture translated into native languages of other peoples (there is evidence that some of the Gospels were made into Chinese as early as the 4th century AD).

The most well-known translation after Latin was the German translation done by Martin Luther, printed by the Gutenberg Press. PLENTY of historical corroborating evidence here, of course.

11. Is the original copy extant?
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Um...no. How can you even say "original copy"? The Bible is made up of multiple "originals," and then it was all compiled in the 5th century AD. So does THAT original copy exist? Again, no. Unless the Vatican has it stored somewhere. Anything before that is definitely gone by now.

12. How did people get The Bible when it was first released? (I would presume that bookstores did not exist, simply because they did not make books as we know them back then. Furthermore, any additional copies beyond the "first print" would had to have been hand copied. I'm just curious as to how people acquired written material before regular books and the printing press.)
---
Scrolls were copied. The "keepers of the law" (Pharisees, Saducees, Scribes) took care of this from Babylonian Exile onward for the Old Testament. As for the New Testament? People scrambled to make copies of that stuff. In the meantime, though, others would inject their own stories, and create what are now the "Gnostic Gospels" and other apocryphal texts that would get weeded out at the Council of Chalcedon.

13. Are there any surviving reviews from the time of the original release date? Did anyone even write a review?
---
No. Did you ever hear of anyone reviewing the Iliad before, say, Christendom? Book reviews weren't a trendy thing to do for a loooong time.

There you go.

avatar! Jan 15, 2009

I recommend you checkout out a few books from the library. As mentioned, lots of people have devoted their entire lives to seeking out answers to your questions.

As for Bible, that also depends on who you ask. For Jews the Bible is the "5 books of Moses" (the first book being the familiar Genesis... NOT Sega tongue Jews do not believe in the New Testament at all. Christians obviously include both the New Testament and the 5 Books. Muslims include the original and New Testament, but their "real" Bible is the Qur'an. So, even a simple questions gets different answers smile

Why are you interested in this, if I might ask?

cheers,

-avatar!

TerraEpon Jan 16, 2009

avatar! wrote:

For Jews the Bible is the "5 books of Moses"

Um....wrong.

avatar! Jan 16, 2009 (edited Jan 16, 2009)

TerraEpon wrote:
avatar! wrote:

For Jews the Bible is the "5 books of Moses"

Um....wrong.

Maybe you're right. I guess it's the 5 books of the Torah + Prophets and Writings smile
Somehow I thought the Torah was the Bible... ah well, live and learn! It is however definitely not any part of the New Testament (for Jews).

cheers,

-avatar!

Tim JC Jan 16, 2009

Wow, Ramza has done his studying!
There's so much to be learned about the Scriptures that you have to devote a lot of time and study for definitive answers. You can google most of these questions and get a satisfactory answer, but some delve into the realm of faith, and then it comes down to what you believe. One great resource on the history and validity of the Bible is Evidence that Demands a Verdict by Josh McDowell (well, the first section of the book anyway--the rest details evidence for the Christian faith).

Just to add to Ramza's substantial info, the Bible was written by approximately forty authors through the ages, from Moses down to the apostles, some writing firsthand, some dictating to scribes. Hebrew and Aramaic for the Old Testament, Greek for the New. I think stone and clay tablets were the earliest means of recording, then it was written on different kinds of papyrus and parchment throughout the centuries. I think scrolls were kept in clay jars for preservation, otherwise they simply had to be rewritten by hand if they wore out from use.

There is no other literature in history as well preserved or documented as the Bible; the Dead Sea Scrolls exist today, including dozens of copies of some of the books. They are in very fragile condition, of course. These aren't theoretical writings either, they have been dated and pored over and cross-examined to prove their authenticity. What's cool is the many prophecies written well before the time of their fulfillment. Israel's fall and captivity was all foretold, and there were specific prophecies about Jesus written hundreds of years before He fulfilled them (over three hundred prophecies, I believe). And we have those actual scrolls from before His time! I got to view some of them at a museum in Raleigh, NC last year. Pretty neat.

As far as who came up with the "idea" of God, that's where faith comes in. Believers believe that the Word was inspired by God, speaking through the writers by His Holy Spirit, or by showing visions to them as in the case of John's Revelation. Non-believers say it's an interesting set of tales--albeit unlike any other--with some good morals and truths and religious tradition. Several rulers and kings have tried to have it eradicated from the face of the earth, but in fact the opposite has happened.

Jodo Kast Jan 16, 2009 (edited Jan 16, 2009)

avatar! wrote:

Why are you interested in this, if I might ask?

Shoe had once commented that I ought to write The Bible ver. 2.0, which I initially found amusing. I forgot his suggestion and suddenly remembered it a few nights ago during a writing session (unrelated material to this topic). It made me wonder - Why is The Bible taken seriously? So, it seems reasonable that I investigate The Bible. Before investigating, a certain fact came to mind. All written material has authors, which means everything that is written can be traced back to the corresponding human that wrote it. Therefore, everything in TB can be traced back to the actual writers, given sufficiently advanced technology or serendipitous archaeological adventures. I then wondered - Are there any present day Bibles? In other words, is it possible that some material written now could be taken seriously in the far future, for reasons that are not clear? Yes, it is easy to draw up a similarity between TB and Star Wars, for example. Older religious people have told me that Star Wars reminds them of religion, due to the Force. Imagine for a moment if the name George Lucas is lost through the ravages of time, but somehow part of his writings survive. Similar ideas to this have been described many times in science fiction. I view the whole Bible situation as a science fiction story. Therefore, in response to Shoe, I can say that writing a Bible ver. 2.0 is not necessary. Such things are not written; they happen.

  By that last sentence, I am intimating that if I (or anyone) did attempt to write A Bible, any attempt would be in vain. It's what happens to written material after it has been written that makes A Bible. (The translations, interpretations, codes of conduct.)

  In simpler terms, the reason why I could not write A Bible is because the simple idea has already been taken. The character in TB known as God has already been invented. I could no more invent God than I could invent zero. The idea of God is very simple, which explains its broad appeal. Evolution, for example, is not simple, which explains the much higher rejection rate. God has a very low rejection rate due to the simplicity. The throngs prefer simpler explanations. (As a related example, this is why Albert Einstein initially rejected quantum mechanics.)

-------------------------

  Thanks for the answers, Ramza. I'm going to show them to my mom and get her opinions as well. She's deeply religious. That might make one wonder how I escaped intense Bible instruction as a youngster, but my mom didn't catch religion until I was 12 years old. I wasn't forced to attend church regularly until I was 12 or 13. At age 17 I stopped attending church altogether. The observations I made of human behavior at church during ages 12-16 were fascinating.

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