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avatar! Aug 25, 2009

That's been the stereotype for a long time. I think most educators would say that Americans are not dumb, but severely lagging behind other countries.. I mean, just look at the emphasis put on science and math in this country! Er, that is, lack of emphasis...

Yeah, I'm not surprised the economy is in the shitter.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/08/25/studen … index.html

Also, while we're at it, maybe we can teach reporters how to properly write a story! Here's an interesting comment I just read from:

http://www.wbaltv.com/cnn-news/20545042/detail.html

"Last week, officer said they ran across Doukas sitting in his truck at night at Holy Cross Cemetery, across the street from where he was shot and killed."

Later!

Qui-Gon Joe Aug 25, 2009 (edited Aug 25, 2009)

We totally need to forgo teaching applicable skills in favor of rote memorization to perform well on predictable standardized tests the way Japan does!

Also, I'm curious how much the American attitude that EVERYONE MUST GO TO COLLEGE and we must force all kids to be on that track these days affects our scores vs. countries where it's actually acknowledged that some might be better suited towards technical things and whatnot.

Dais Aug 25, 2009

on a related topic, I really don't understand people who preach that DC is better than Marvel or Marvel is better than DC.

seriously.

avatar! Aug 25, 2009

Qui-Gon Joe wrote:

We totally need to forgo teaching applicable skills in favor of rote memorization to perform well on predictable standardized tests the way Japan does!

Also, I'm curious how much the American attitude that EVERYONE MUST GO TO COLLEGE and we must force all kids to be on that track these days affects our scores vs. countries where it's actually acknowledged that some might be better suited towards technical things and whatnot.

Actually I think China FAR more than any country has their students practice and memorize to do well on standardized exams. I've heard that the GRE has had problems due to rampant cheating in China. But anyway, I'm not sure what your point is? Are you saying that science and math are not applicable? Or that there's no correlation between doing well on standardized tests and applicability?

I don't think the attitude here is "everyone must go to college", although to be fair it's hard to get a decent job without going to college. Again not sure what you mean by "countries where it's actually acknowledged that some might be better suited towards technical things and whatnot"...
I think one of the points of the article is that unless kids are properly taught at any early age, then none of them will be "better suited towards technical things and whatnot" when they actually do get to college and of course go to the workforce.

cheers,

-avatar!

Qui-Gon Joe Aug 25, 2009

avatar!, I'm merely pointing out that there are alternate possible explanations for why American students don't perform as well on tests in some areas than other countries' children.  I think that a straight comparison is often comparing apples to oranges considering the way different countries evaluate in different ways.  My experience in Japan tended to teach me that my Japanese students could rock tests in English but they could never string together a sentence in a real conversation.  Is one method *better* than another, or are they just different?

If anything, I think the thing that needs to be improved among American kids is work ethic.  Think about this: how much more technically skilled are these kids than their parents' generation?  How many of their parents can operate cell phones, computers, and any other bit of technology as well as they can?  I don't think our kids are getting dumber - their energy just may be misplaced.  I'm not sure what the answer is, but my off-hand judgment from working in a school is that it would be nice to see parents be even remotely interested in the academic performance of their children.

rein Aug 25, 2009

While we're making fun of journalists, how ridiculous is it that this story was posted in the AP's Top News section?

Daniel K Aug 26, 2009

When I was a teenager I used to believe Americans were especially dumb, but as I've grown up, I've realized that most people just are plain dumb, no matter where or in what time. While I still feel there's a special annoying "American" kind of stupidity, I would say that every nation/people has it's own brand of stupidity. There are two reasons why the prejudice of American excellence in the field of dumb is so widespread (both outside and inside the US):

1. America's special position in the world insures that there is always special focus on American culture, which is exported and transplanted to many other cultures. This results in American stupidity having a more direct and irritating "in-your-face"-quality, since its simply everywhere, and thus an easy target to diss (like the weather).

2. The American kind of stupidity is simply fun. It's cheesy, silly, and often very entertaining. There are nations that maybe have less overall stupidity, but have worse kinds of stupidity, like Russia (self-destructive stupidity), France (pompous stupidity), Sweden (risk-fearing stupidity), etc. My favourite quote regarding this is by American journalist H. L. Mencken:

All the while I have been forgetting the third of my reasons for remaining so faithful a citizen of
the Federation, despite all the lascivious inducements from expatriates to follow them beyond the
seas, and all the surly suggestions from patriots that I succumb. It is the reason which grows out of
my mediaeval but unashamed taste for the bizarre and indelicate, my congenital weakness for
comedy of the grosser varieties. The United States, to my eye, is incomparably the greatest show
on earth. It is a show which avoids diligently all the kinds of clowning which tire me most quickly
– for example, royal ceremonials, the tedious hocus-pocus of haut politique, the taking of politics
seriously – and lays chief stress upon the kinds that delight me unceasingly – for example, the
ribald combats of demagogues, the exquisitely ingenious operations of master rogues, the pursuit
of witches and heretics, the desperate struggles of inferior men to claw their way into Heaven. We
have clowns in constant practice among us who are as far above the clowns of any other great state
as a Jack Dempsey is above a paralytic – and not a few dozen or score of them, but whole droves
and herds. Human enterprises which, in all other Christian countries, are resigned despairingly to
an incurable dullness – things that seem devoid of exhilarating amusement by their very nature –
are here lifted to such vast heights of buffoonery that contemplating them strains the midriff
almost to breaking.

As true today as it was when he wrote it in 1922.

avatar! wrote:

I think most educators would say that Americans are not dumb, but severely lagging behind other countries.. I mean, just look at the emphasis put on science and math in this country! Er, that is, lack of emphasis...

Wait a minute here. Are you equating "dumb" with a lack of scientific or mathematical knowledge? I know many people who are skilled mathematicians or scientists that are pretty dumb and have one-track minds, while I also know some people without college degrees that are very intelligent and shrewd. Academic prowess is not a good gauge for intelligence (in some cases it probably is, but in most cases not). Besides, I'm not sure if school results can really be compared between countries, as the systems can vary a lot, as well as the possibility of some results being forced/produced by various framing techniques.

Jodo Kast Aug 27, 2009

avatar! wrote:

That's been the stereotype for a long time. I think most educators would say that Americans are not dumb, but severely lagging behind other countries.. I mean, just look at the emphasis put on science and math in this country! Er, that is, lack of emphasis...

Yeah, I'm not surprised the economy is in the shitter.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/08/25/studen … index.html

Also, while we're at it, maybe we can teach reporters how to properly write a story! Here's an interesting comment I just read from:

http://www.wbaltv.com/cnn-news/20545042/detail.html

"Last week, officer said they ran across Doukas sitting in his truck at night at Holy Cross Cemetery, across the street from where he was shot and killed."

Later!

Americans are evolving. I'm having a great time telling my co-workers (the female ones, since they are the most exhibitive) how they're going to wake up one morning and find an LCD display growing in the palm of their hand. Shortly thereafter, buttons will emerge and a battery will form in the upper back, since the skin is quite thick there. They're always using a cell phone! Always! Texting every person they know about every little damn thing. No one thinks anymore. And that Vernor Vinge had to invent sming, which is short for silent messaging. We don't have that yet, but I imagine it would cause any visiting aliens to try to communicate with ants or termites.

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