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Ashley Winchester Oct 5, 2010

I'm sure everyone has seen the commercials regarding bullying on TV lately about "stomping out bullying" and have heard and/or read the stories about victims (a modern twist is it involving facebook) taking their lives.

I think everyone here as experienced being bullied at one point or another (god, I do not miss high school the slightest) and I'm not against stopping such acts, but does anyone else get the feeling that this is a futile effort, much like preaching abstinence to teenagers? As long as you have people, there is always going to be bullying - hell, it even exists in the adult world - and while that doesn't exactly justify it, I don't think I'd want my world sanitized to the point where I would never encounter it (I doubt that's possible, but I'm sure some would love to see such a scenario become a reality).

What do you think?

Amazingu Oct 5, 2010

Ashley Winchester wrote:

I don't think I'd want my world sanitized to the point where I would never encounter it

Why not?

I mean, a world without bullying is obviously NEVER going to happen, but what would be wrong with it if it did?

I've personally never been the subject of bullying (not repeated at least, only random) but it pisses me off to no end to hear about people doing it or suffering from it.

Ashley Winchester Oct 5, 2010

Amazingu wrote:
Ashley Winchester wrote:

I don't think I'd want my world sanitized to the point where I would never encounter it

Why not?

Well, I was kind of contemplating both scenarios at the same time here: a world without bullying (which isn't going to happen) and the world we live in where it does happen.

Still, think of it this way. Let's say, for example, you're rich and you live in a problem-free bubble. All of a sudden you see someone bullying another person. In an abstract sense, and not saying it's an experience you want to experience, don't you think missing out on not having that kind of hardship - and being able to learn from it - is missing out on a vital part of the human experience? Again, I guess I'm taking this way out in left field - speaking generalities - and I'm not saying "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger" but in the end, I rather know what pain is rather than not knowing what pain is. I'd rather have the knowledge of what being bullied feels like rather than being blissfully ignorant to learn how to deal with it when it happens to me or someone else.

Then again, if I lived in such a problem-free environment I might be so blinded by my fortune I might not care about anyone/anything else. I would hope that would prove to be false.

Ok, I'm done trying to sound smart for the night.

longhairmike Oct 5, 2010

if i'm elected i will pass a federal moratorium on kids...

Ashley Winchester Oct 5, 2010

longhairmike wrote:

if i'm elected i will pass a federal moratorium on kids...

Actually, I think President Obama is already trying to do that.

But seriously, I would like a longer school year, the more kids are in prison, err... I mean school and not elsewhere the happier I am. The only bad thing is having to deal with f--- ing buses.

And while we're on kids and the topic of a longer school year, does anyone else think this is a bad idea when combined with the subject of this thread? Could we see a spike in school violence with a longer school year? I mean if kids that have problems with one another are forced into even more contact with one another... or do the benefits far outweigh the risks?

I probably don't even need to ask that last question, do I?

Amazingu Oct 5, 2010

Ashley Winchester wrote:

I rather know what pain is rather than not knowing what pain is. I'd rather have the knowledge of what being bullied feels like rather than being blissfully ignorant to learn how to deal with it when it happens to me or someone else.

But if we could create a world in which bullying no longer exists, then there wouldn't be the need to prepare yourself for it, now would there?

Being ignorant of something that doesn't exist is the default state of being.

Tim JC Oct 5, 2010

To get rid of bullying entirely you would have to get rid of all that causes bullies to develop and act out in the first place, which is a whole host of factors. You'd have to have a perfect world, basically.

I just read an interesting article about how Japan has adopted Western anti-bullying measures in their schools, and how it has resulted in more bullying. It's like when you crack down on certain behaviors in society and make them illegal, the tendency is an increased rebellion against that law. (Well, they say that applies to underage drinking and marijuana, but I don't know if the same could be said for rape and murder.) People need more incentive than a slap on the wrist if they're going to change their behavior. Even lasting physical and emotional damage aren't enough of a deterrent. Wanton sex and smoking, which everyone with half a brain knows have damaging consequences, are still practiced regularly. Instant gratification. Life is tough, gotta live it up now. Discipline=bad, entitlement=good. In today's culture.

To be fair, too many young people don't know what a better alternative looks like. You always hear kids complaining about their strict, tyrannical parent/s, yet psychologists say kids want boundaries. I guess too many parents simply yell at their kids (which basically says "don't be bad!"), instead of taking the time beforehand to set boundaries and explain why those boundaries should exist (which says "I care about you"), and to actually tell the kid they're proud of him when he does do well, or even when he doesn't. Some parents just keep setting goals in front of their child, as if their love can be earned only by meeting successive goals.

I've heard explanations for why some bullies pick on poor, weakling kids and outcasts, but I still find it hard to imagine. Whether you're an outcast yourself, or you just think that poor kid looks like a dopey idiot, how do you derive pleasure from knocking him down yet another peg in his miserable world?

avatar! Oct 5, 2010

Thanks for the link Tim, it was an interesting read.
As mentioned in the article, one problem is that parents are too quick to blame the schools, and lawyers of course will sue for no real reason, and therefore you have this culture of everyone is scared because basically there are lawyers out there. Personally, I'm in favor of beating the shit out of the lawyers... but anyway:

My Dad told me when he was in school, he knew a bully who was bigger than everyone and picked on all the kids. Until one day another kid beat the crap out of him, and then suddenly he was nice whenever that kid was around. When I was in elementary school, there was a bully who was obnoxious, until one day my friend and I just had enough, and during recess we smashed him as hard as we could with those rubber balls that kids play with. We did that the entire day, and when he ran after us, we just ran and stood by the teachers. He went back his way, then we grabbed the balls and repeated. By the end of recess he looked like he was ready to cry. Guess what? for the rest of school he was all nice and buddy-buddy to me! I think the best way to deal with bullies is to give them a taste of their own medicine. Of course, that was back then, we didn't carry guns and rocket launchers to school...

Tim JC Oct 5, 2010

avatar! wrote:

Thanks for the link Tim, it was an interesting read.
As mentioned in the article, one problem is that parents are too quick to blame the schools, and lawyers of course will sue for no real reason, and therefore you have this culture of everyone is scared because basically there are lawyers out there. Personally, I'm in favor of beating the shit out of the lawyers... but anyway:

My Dad told me when he was in school, he knew a bully who was bigger than everyone and picked on all the kids. Until one day another kid beat the crap out of him, and then suddenly he was nice whenever that kid was around. When I was in elementary school, there was a bully who was obnoxious, until one day my friend and I just had enough, and during recess we smashed him as hard as we could with those rubber balls that kids play with. We did that the entire day, and when he ran after us, we just ran and stood by the teachers. He went back his way, then we grabbed the balls and repeated. By the end of recess he looked like he was ready to cry. Guess what? for the rest of school he was all nice and buddy-buddy to me! I think the best way to deal with bullies is to give them a taste of their own medicine. Of course, that was back then, we didn't carry guns and rocket launchers to school...

Yeah, I like that simple approach of standing up for yourself and giving a bully all the attention he could possibly yearn for. That's how they did it on the Andy Griffith show, back in the day. It is funny how someone who seemingly hates you can actually turn into your friend. Like the cliched movie scenario where a man and woman have been at each other's throats, fighting and hitting each other, and the next minute they're kissing. There's an easier way, people!

Tim JC Oct 5, 2010

Sad. I read about that Clementi story a few days ago, on another site. Ironically, and unfortunately, the comments below it were filled with snide, hateful remarks making fun of the guy who died. What in the world.

Qui-Gon Joe Oct 5, 2010

Tim JC wrote:

Sad. I read about that Clementi story a few days ago, on another site. Ironically, and unfortunately, the comments below it were filled with snide, hateful remarks making fun of the guy who died. What in the world.

And this is why we really ought to be attacking the root cause of what makes it acceptable to mock people to the point of killing themselves just for being different rather than just telling kids not to make fun of other kids...

Idolores Oct 5, 2010

Agreed with avatar. I used to get regularly bullied by this one guy in high school until I punched him out in gym class one day during my grade 11 year. I got in trouble, yeah, but he left me alone completely after that. Don't know if he bullied anyone else.

Ashley Winchester Oct 6, 2010

Idolores wrote:

Agreed with avatar. I used to get regularly bullied by this one guy in high school until I punched him out in gym class one day during my grade 11 year. I got in trouble, yeah, but he left me alone completely after that. Don't know if he bullied anyone else.

While I don't exactly believe violence is the answer to conflict, I do believe there are times where people deserve to "have their ass handed to them on a silver platter." A good example was when a person made fun of my friend's grandmother dying. I think you should get knocked out for that, but society didn't think he had a right to do that, so he had a nice stay in the mental ward. Still, what got me is many of the actual employees there didn't think what he did warranted it.

In today's world, people don't have to back up what they say with any kind of muscle - physical or mental - and maintain some semblance of order and respect.

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