"6:33 -- Kuturagi takes the stage. He introduces the PS3 controlled ... and it's the PS3 controller?!? It looks exactly the same, but it has many new function. Most importantly, it has "6 degrees" of motion-sensing movement. (Um, Nintendo, what do you have to say about this?) You can move it up and down, you have pitch and yaw and roll movement, and it's all still wireless and, in fact, lighter than PS2's DualShock."

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/705/705742p1.html

"9:37 PM by Richard Brownell
The demo is beginning. Controller has "six degrees of freedom" with "no external sensor required." In real terms, it's got tilt functionality. Anybody remember when Nintendo said the concept of their controller might be stolen? Yeah, I guess they weren't kidding. First connectivity, now Wii controller tilt functionality. It's the PlayStation ThWii. You heard it here first folks."

http://www.gamesarefun.com/gamesdb/blog.php?id=39

It's naive to assume Nintendo invented the concept of 3D movement controllers.  Last time I heard, VR games implemented this kind of controller, and I have seen this concept in movies.  Just because Nintendo is the first to add a pre-existing concept to their new controller doesn't mean they own it and nobody else can use it.  The PS3 controller will still be better than the Wii's bundled controller.

http://planetgamecube.com/newsArt.cfm?artid=11428

Obviously a biased site, but interesting nonetheless:

"Sony just announced that the standard PS3 controller will include a 3 axis tilt sensor capable of detecting "360 degrees" of motion. The announcement was followed by a quick video, which, to the trained eye, demonstrated the limitations of their thinly veiled attempt to copy Nintendo's innovative Wii controller. They proudly asserted that the device was innovative (yes, but who's innovation?) and blithely pointed out that it requires no external sensors to function.

At what cost does the loss of external sensors come though? In short, the PS3 controller will only detect the tilt of the controller as it is moved. The demonstration showed a guy attempting to fly a plane from the game Warhawk with it. He made exaggerated motions, which turned the plane, but the plane returned to level before he moved the controller back. This is a far cry from the sensitivity of the Wii controller. The sensor bar allows the Wii to detect the precise location and orientation of the Wii controller even when it is not moving. This will enable a much larger range of applications (such as first person shooting to name just one). Of course, the Wii controller also has an accelerometer in the analog attachment as well.

Apparently no other PS3 launch games (assuming Warhawk makes the launch) are currently designed to use the device, which was likely a last minute add on in response to the increasing popularity of Nintendo's new controller design."

Sure Nintendo didn't invent it, but it is obvious that Sony tapped this in the last year.  In fact, nothing from Sony's presentation was really original, except for its hubris.  Still, 2 million goes on sale November 17th worldwide for $499 or $599---40GBs of the hard drive means $100.

E3 has begun... curious to see what Microsoft and especially Nintendo have to say tomorrow.

Just a few random thoughts:

-I don't care if the technology existed before, it's still fairly blatant in this case that Sony's pulling a "me too!" in response to the good reaction Nintendo's new design is getting.

-I can't believe they went back to the original dualshock design again.  I was REALLY hoping they'd realize that their analog stick feel and placement blows.

-For the price Sony wants me to pay for the PS3, I could buy any number of useful household appliances.  The sucker costs more than my freaking car did.  Thanks but no thanks.

-Given that Sony owns the Japanese buying public, they will gladly bend over and take the pricing anyway and the system will sell boatloads.

Although it seems fairly clear that Sony's more limited motion-sensing controller isn't on the same level as the Wiimote, it's still a bold strike against both Nintendo and Microsoft.  I guess it all depends on just how precise it is.  If it's not precise enough, it will just be another sales bullet-point like analog buttons, but if it is precise, it'll steal some of Nintendo's thunder and put Microsoft in an interesting position.  Tomorrow's conferences should be very interesting indeed.

I pretty much agree with everything you've said!  Clearly Sony is "borrowing" from Nintendo, although I wouldn't be surprised one bit if Microsoft doesn't introduce something similar in the near future.  As for the price, is the PS3 really that expensive??  If the Wii will end up at $200, why would anyone purchase a PS3?!  Sony deserves a good spanking in my opinion, and maybe this year will be it!

cheers,

-avatar!

I don't like your attitude, mister.....

*grumble grumble analog buttons ARE functionally-sound mumble*

Sony also pulled an MS by excluding features from the cheaper model, namely, HD support, wifi and all memory cards. Also, the new motion sensing capability is added at the sacrifice of the rumble feature (apparently the two can't coexist). So, I guess the "shock" in the dualshock is gone.

Yikes, it's also 11 pounds. (The original Xbox was 8.5 lbs.)

First of all... why didn't I see that line ("Yikes...") before replying to your post???
Secondly, so what's the new name of the controller?  I propose DualRip, or DualWii, in honor of the ripped system
11 pounds...hmmm, I hate to see what sort of bugs this system is going to have!!

cheers,

-avatar!

I have my differences with Nintendo, but I gotta say...That is pretty f---ing lame from Sony. I wonder if that's just their way of trying to close the inevitable price gap between Wii and PS3.

Also, I missed the detail about the lesser model not supporting memory cards or wifi. Also very lame. Especially considering the "low" end PS3 is $100 more than the "high" end 360. Sony better start praying people buy into the Blu-Ray format.

It sounds to me like the controller will use a procedure like that of a level:  a horizontal and vertical tube each with an air buble to measure vertical/lateral movement and tilt.  Obviously if that's so, a rumble feature would really screw up the precision.

Just because Nintendo is releasing such a thing doesn't mean other consoles hadn't been planning it.  You're reading too much into it.  It's not an original idea as it is.

However, if the Wii is actually that cheap (doubt it), I will probably get it, because there are a few Gamecube games I know I'd be interested in.  Otherwise I'll just get a used gamecube and enjoy that.

Assuming Microsoft doesn't get vicious and drop the price like rumored elsewhere---I think EGM claimed they'd drop it by $100 in October.  I'd most likely buy one for $299; Dead Rising is looking pretty fun.

Meanwhile, EGM also put, according to GAF, the Wii at $250.  Still not a bad price, but I think it would be best at $199.99.

I edited my post avatar!

Well that's just the thing about the blu-ray, PS3's been hyped as a cheap blu-ray player...but read this from wikipedia:

"Another aspect of compatibility is more problematic. Due to AACS copy protection, the Blu-ray players will only output HD content via HDMI and DVI-D connections, meaning that older HDTV models with Component, RGB D-Sub, and DVI-A inputs (currently, majority of HDTVs in US) will only display video at standard definition or not at all."

Sony went and pulled this gimmick so you have to buy the more expensive one (w/ the HD output) to even take advantage of the blu-ray technology.

And when I can (most likely) buy 2 Wii's for 1 PS3...I'm going to get a Wii. Don't get me wrong I do WANT a PS3, now I'm just going to wait until FFXIII comes out...by which time it'll have dropped in price, hopefully.

It wasn't even mentioned last year.  Hasn't Sony mocked it also as a 'gimmick'?  And they had the audacity to claim it as "innovative" tonight.  Sony spent the last year ripping it off... just as they did Live... and they couldn't help but go back to their old controller design.  Speaking of which, didn't they get sued because of the rumble feature now removed?

Not like Microsoft can't afford to. Hell, they could give the systems away and it wouldn't make a difference to them (and it would effectively destroy Sony...hmm). It's just a matter of how desperate they'd want to get. Wisest move might be to announce the $100 price drop right at their press conference, although that wouldn't do anything good for their shortage situation.

Just as an amusing aside: Someone at work misinterpretted the rumor and started telling me Microsoft was dropping the 360 to $100. He heard it from some financial show, so I explained why it wouldn't go that low. He didn't know much about game systems, needless to say.

I'm pretty much convinced I'm staying away from both systems for at least 2-3 years, so the more those two pound away at each other, the better.

Maybe Nintendo does have the right idea afterall...

I don't keep on top of this stuff, but if all of the console companies announced every feature they wanted to use, there would be more stealing than there is now.

Perhaps we'll find out for sure tomorrow, but I agree that $200 is the best launch price for Wii.  Also, I suppose it's worth noting that Nintendo has never launched a console for more than $200 in the U.S.

IGN just posted a more thorough analysis of the PS3 controller:

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/705/705934p1.html

and a little more detail here:

http://revolution.ign.com/articles/705/705870p1.html

I don't see what the problem is. As mentioned in the second post in this thread, Nintendo did not invent this. Is this like how they invented the 'innovative' virtual pet with Nintendogs?

Nintendo's focus should always be games. Any new trickery they add to their machine should be only to facilitate certain games. If their only unique selling point at all becomes a piece of hardware then the other companies would be nuts not to go for it.

Personally I don't think this will have much of an impact - Sony are unlikely to have developed any software that utilises this anywhere near as well as Nintendo. But, if Nintendo put all their eggs in one hardware basket, well, this was fairly inevitable whether this generation or the next one down the line.

IGN recognizes that Sony is not stealing the tilt-movement idea from Nintendo, enough said.  The two implementations of motion detection are completely different and have different limitations.

IGN claims Sony was working on a motion detection controller before Nintendo announced theirs.  Like I said, it's not like Nintendo invented the wheel here.

I won't form a full opinion on the console war until I can see the end results with my own eyes.  I think motion detection was long overdue in home consoles though.

Sony, ripping off Nintendo since 1990 (but at least the SNES' audio subsystem was worth it). =P

The rumble feature Nintendo first featured in mid-1990s was actually licensed from some other company, Sony was just reinventing that, denied fee payments to that company since and is still in a court battle with them. The free motion system (as well as the other motion systems like in Kirby Tilt 'n Tumble and Wario Ware Twisted on which Sony's solution is based on) were licensed by Nintendo from other companies. I wonder if Sony again gets into a state of denial like in the rumble case.

I've never really found any game where analog buttons made a significant impact.  The button physically does not go down so far to register 255 degrees of button pressure as Sony originally claimed.

I suggest "Wii Too."

Very good...

-avatar!

My thought on the whole thing is: What does it matter? Not to sound heartless, since I as a creator do take pride in whatever I create and also take pride in being a pioneer in an area. But my thought is that if the feature functions as it's supposed to and actually adds something fun and interesting to games, then what of it? It may be different if Sony were copying Nintendo's exact same motion-sensor system for their own console, but I'm assuming that's NOT the case. Unless it's the whole thing of "let's see who can come up with this idea first." Then, of course, comes the "let's see who can successfully implement this feature first" battle...

Blehh. No rumble feature makes me a pissy panda. I'm hoping a third-party will make a rumble pad, or DS2 will be compatible with all games, because damn it, I like that stuff.

As for the deck itself?
Cost?Well, price isn't an issue for the time being, as I won't even WANT one of the damn things until MGS4 comes about.
The gyro functions? This generations 'analog buttons'. If Sony implemented it as halfassed as the Warhawk demo indicates, only first-year stuff will use it seriously and then it'll curl up and die, uselessly.
PSP connectivity? PocketStation redux! Sony may be serious about the PSP, but serious about linking to games? Uh-huh.
The Blu-Ray? Don't care, I'm still happy with current DVDs.

Loosely translated: I'm sorry Sony, did you say something? I kinda zoned out.

Well, well, well... the plot thickens.  Ok, not really, but interesting nonetheless:

"LOS ANGELES--It seems Sony might have surprised its developers with the announcement of a tilt-sensitive PlayStation 3 controller almost as much as it surprised gamers.

In the latest installment of his Electronic Entertainment Expo blog, Seth Schiesel of The New York Times talks about the changing face of the event and his impressions of the lineups on display from Nintendo and Sony. Though it's buried near the bottom of the entry, the following excerpt from the article is sure to raise more than a few eyebrows:

Set in a science-fiction war zone, Warhawk is the first game to make public use of Sony's own kinetic controller, which mimics the Wii device. Unfortunately for Sony, the admission by one of the Warhawk developers that his team got its hands on the new controller less than two weeks ago reinforced the impression that Sony only added motion-sensitive technology at the last minute in a hasty attempt to match Nintendo.

Representatives from Sony didn't return requests for comment on the report."

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6150807.html

That Warhawk developer is probably going to be fired.  The management will find an excuse.

during interviews - developers knew nothing about new motion-sensitive technology, so its pretty obvious that the new feature was added on last minute.

Heh... I wonder if this is going to trigger a bunch of lawsuits!  It's kinda sad that these days everything is all about politics.  I bet Shakespeare never had to worry about getting sued, even though most of his ideas were taken elsewhere!  Hmmm, on the other hand, competition is a very good thing, especially for consumers. 

cheers,

-avatar!

Maybe a lawsuit for a non-disclosure agreement violation.  For example, the developers may have been asked in an agreement not to mention when they got the motion-sensing controller.