Yeah, we're really reaching the law of diminishing returns with graphics aren't we?

I guess that's why people fight over resolution... we need SOMETHING to argue about, right?

I think Nintendo has the right idea. 8 bit sprites look awesome in high resolution.

With this?
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/19 … orite-game

Maybe MS will buy them out and bundle it with Xbox Zero (MSRP $999).

Microsoft had to unbundle the Kinect because the PS4 has been killing the XB1 in the marketplace due to the $100 price difference. That doesn't mean that the Kinect or its features are bad ideas. The bad idea was making it mandatory and consequentially causing the console to be overpriced. Motion control gaming may be going out of fashion, but the demand for camera peripherals on game systems is at an all time high thanks to Twitch and other game streaming services. For the first several months of this year, Sony couldn't keep the PS4 Camera in stock because it was selling far better than it expected it to. If the standalone Kinect is priced appropriately, I imagine Microsoft will be able to sell plenty of them to people who are into that without having to force the rest of us to pay extra for a peripheral we'll never use.

As for the whole 1080p/60fps dream, if those kind of specs are all you care about, you need to forget the XB1 and PS4. This is the first generation of new consoles that released less powerful than contemporary PCs. It used to be that consoles would set a new benchmark and be better than the average PC for a year or two until PCs caught up and then blew past them. This time around, neither Sony nor Microsoft wanted to lose money on hardware, so they didn't design cutting edge machines, instead opting for modestly powered boxes they wouldn't have to sell for a loss. So, if you want the best resolutions and frame rates, you'll have to go PC for all of your third party AAA games. Of course, a top notch gaming PC is going to cost you a lot more than an XB1 or PS4 (more than both of them combined, actually), but if top tier performance is important to you, you won't find it in this generation of consoles.

I still thought it was in short supply. Well, maybe not as bad as it was...

Impressive. Most impressive. I thought about something like that, but I honestly didn't think anyone would be able to produce it for such a low price. I really hope this whole virtual reality thing takes off. It would be awesome to play a game like Dark Souls 3 or the next Elder Scrolls entirely immersed!

So having some first hand experience, I thought I'd chime in...Xbox one was my system of choice and I picked one up on Day 1...because most gaming these days comes from Call of Duty (shame I know, and I'm terrible at it) and I like the controller for that, and emulators for all the classics and more (seriously check out OpenEmu if you have a Mac it really is great)...but that said, I sold my xbox 360 w/Kinect and picked up the Xbox one..

There have been a few glaring surprises  - namely the inability to stream MP3s from DLNA service 'while' playing games (Xbox says you can still stream but it's entirely cryptic and doesn't allow you to while you play a game...don't even waste your time with Xbox Music)...

And everyone's aware of the 1080P/60FPS stuff...big surprise here to me too especially with a flagship game like Titanfall - screen tearing?!  you kid din' me?  I can't even play it..

The second is this Kinect debacle...I would fully expect there to be some forthcoming Kinect 2.0 games that will be worth it...however, after having played Kinect Sports Rivals (after assuming it would be at least better than the previous iterations), I was surprised at much of it...slow load times (really bad), and in execution not much better than Kinect 1.0 controls - (tennis is pretty bad)...Its a bit of a WTF Microsoft?  Forcing the inclusion of a system component that isn't really used properly doesn't make much sense.

So here's what gets me, if Microsoft is doing this in response to market demands since they are getting outsold by PS4 competitive $100 less price tag...I think I read 7 million (PS4) vs 5 million (Xbox 1s)...it's just pure greed, they don't have to be #1 in hardware sales when theres plenty of pie to go around...the answer may be more than that...this is an interesting article: http://time.com/67954/5-reasons-the-lat … k-they-do/

There is speculation about potential production issues as well as the face that PS4 is available in over 72 markets vs 13 for Xbox one...

It definitely is a strange time for gaming systems - I'm done having multiple systems connected to my TV - Nintendo taking a huge nose dive, PS4 I'm not seeing any games I want, and then Xbox One fumbling the ball.

This Forbes article is not exactly "friendly" towards Microsoft nor Xbox One.

"Five million people around the world have bought an Xbox One so far and Microsoft has a message for you: SUCKERS!"

http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly … -xbox-one/

Interesting read... but there are several "points" in that article that are pretty skewed if you ask me.

Developers who weren't making Kinect specific games (e.g. Rare) were lukewarm on the Kinect.

I think they kind of overstate the impact and quality of Kinect Sports. (one the more pro-Microsoft points of the article ironically)

Should you really call early adopters "suckers" because they took a risk? Every item needs early adopters and this "risk" is part of that. I don't remember anyone calling HD-DVD backers "suckers" for backing the wrong pony.

Now that you mention it, I had to do a search
First link:

http://www.cnet.com/news/best-buy-50-gi … d-suckers/

Second link:

http://pogue.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/03/ … d-suckers/

etc.

I knew when I wrote that it come back to bite me in the ass...

...however, there were a few, rather decent, arguments that HD-DVD would pull ahead back then. Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't the porn industry a big deciding factor in VHS vs Betamax? A lot people though that would play in HD-DVD's favor since Sony wasn't going to license BluRay to that industry. I don't know if I'm 100% correct on that or if they did eventually relax that.

And, as always, hindsight is always 20/20. It's easy to say "no duh" after the victor of the battle has been decided.

My attitude was simply: I'll let them duke it out and whatever stays on top I'll go with. Frankly, the better format does not always win. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if in 10 years HD-DVD become "collector's items" as just about everything in the video game industry tends to be!

Same here. That was such a contested battle that there was no reason to even adopt either until one of them won.

Edit:

However, am I the only one that finds it ironic that Blu Ray is already kind of obsolete already. I'm not talking about physical vs digital but when it comes to video games.

I don't anyone can refute there is a lot of storage space on a BluBay... but there have been a lot of stories about the size of BluBays becoming a constraint for developers.

I was reading about The Last of Us PS4 and the director was saying that the power of the PS4 was not limiting what they were going to do to improve the graphics... but how many hi-res textures they could fit on the actual disc.

I find that kind of mind-boggling.

The retro gamer in me finds it ironic how 100kb cartridges can hold much better games than 50GB Blu Ray discs.

Not to get mired in a whole "old games are better" debate (which is easy for me since I'm WAY more into retro) but I agree with this on some levels. I don't think gameplay in video games has evolved as much as developers would like us to believe... and when something does come along that does change it (say the motion controls of the Wii) it's simply not built to last.

Also, this kind of touches on what was being said before the launch of the newest consoles. Developers were complaining that their games were being held back because of the old hardware. No offense, but I didn't buy that. The game's visuals were probably being held back (as if that really matters)... not their gameplay and concepts. The only thing that is really holding back gaming is the extreme cost of development and the fear of failure which leads companies in making the same "safe" products over and over again.

I'm pretty sure I said something along these lines in regards to how the PS1 library had tons of varied products. I don't know where I said that (it could be earlier in this thread maybe) but I feel that way even though I'm not trying to imply that is 100% true.

Also, I was talking to another gamer and he was sharing another concern of mine. It's obvious that Mircosoft and Sony want these new consoles to last about seven to eight years. Considering they were developed with being affordable in mind (and not psychotically high-end machines) are these consoles really going to last that long? If the PS4 and One are essentially mid level PCs is it going to take developers long to discover and max out their potential? How long before developers start crying foul and start demanding more power?

Honestly, this is my first time reading about how under-powered these new consoles are. Given the development cycles, game development costs (effectively forcing out a lot of the smaller players) and given that all 3 companies are losing money on these things, I have to question their sustainability too, especially for 7-8 years. But then again, people can't be expected to pony up for the high end gaming PC that costs 2X or 3X what a console costs. So it's kind of a unhappy agreement somewhere in the middle...lower power for affordability.

My prediction: Within 2 years, Microsoft spins off the Xbox division and the near-term result will end up causing a crash to shake up the game industry. There will be a shake-up at some point in this console generation (unless some seriously kick-ass new type of software hits the market and takes everyone by storm), I'm just not 100% sure what will be the cause. We know Nintendo's in trouble (regardless of how much exercise equipment they end up selling outside of their main business) and Sony just posted big losses as well.

Well "under-powered" might be somewhat of a misnomer. What I was really getting at it before the consoles launched some gamers were expecting a quantum leap over the previous generation in terms of power with these things. Given the law of diminishing returns with graphics - and that, like you said, the console manufactures can't go to deep into the red with these things anymore - you have to wonder if these machines will last as long as intended as we are questioning. Throw in the psychotically stupid fights over resolution that resemble the bitwars of our generation where players just want more and more with out thinking of the repercussions of getting what they want. Really, does anyone with a semblance of rationality expect a $400 console to keep up with the specs of a $1,000 PC?

This might sound disrespectful... and in all honesty I wouldn't want anyone to lose their job or destroy/hurt economies... but I wouldn't exactly be against the industry crashing. So many things are just plain out of whack (and it's so far gone I don't think it can-self correct itself in any way) that the only way the business - and consumers - to reevaluate and decide what is most important to them is for something like this to happen. I know some will say that isn't any kind of sane solution but I just don't see how you could go about it in any other way.

I agree with all three being in trouble... however I would point out that Sony isn't necessarily in trouble because of the PlayStation line. As a conglomerate Sony is hurting because several of their divisions have failed to keep up with the times. I can't remember the last time I saw a Sony brand TV and when was the last time you saw a Vaio computer?

Size has never been a measure for quality.

True... but at the same time I think as some of the boundaries have been lifted some of the more superficial aspects of games have gotten way too much attention.

It's been state of the art in consoles for 7 1/2 years. CD lasted a bit longer, but games were routinely shipping on 2-4 discs. On the other hand, that was mostly FMV, and other than that the games were essentially fully playable from a single disc.

Anyone seen the latest X1 commercial with the Breaking Bad guy?

Seemed rather pandering to me, trying too hard to point out features that make it more than a game console.