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If Nintendo released an exclusive Fire Emblem game for the Wii U, I would be sold. I can't really think of any other Nintendo-exclusive title that would make me instantly get a Wii U. A Zelda game would not do it, unless they really wowed me (you know, by doing basic things, such as having fully voiced dialogue)!
If Nintendo released an exclusive Fire Emblem game for the Wii U, I would be sold. I can't really think of any other Nintendo-exclusive title that would make me instantly get a Wii U. A Zelda game would not do it, unless they really wowed me (you know, by doing basic things, such as having fully voiced dialogue)!
Voiced dialogue would undermine the sense of minimalism that is part of what makes each entry feel so grand.
How about an Etrisn Oddessy on Wii U
If Nintendo released an exclusive Fire Emblem game for the Wii U, I would be sold. I can't really think of any other Nintendo-exclusive title that would make me instantly get a Wii U. A Zelda game would not do it, unless they really wowed me (you know, by doing basic things, such as having fully voiced dialogue)!
They're working on a Shin Megami Tensei x Fire Emblem crossover if I'm not mistaken.
Nobody knows what it's going to play like though.
And ugh NO, I never want to see a Zelda with fully voiced dialogue, EVER.
They did it on CD-I and that was proof that it should never be done again.
And ugh NO, I never want to see a Zelda with fully voiced dialogue, EVER.
Of course, I see this and all I can hear in my head is "HEY! LISTEN!" I do have to say I'm a big fan of Midna's jibberish and giggling through Twilight Princess, but no comment on Fi from SS (although I heard she was the worst).
This brings up an interesting point, though. There are a few "silent" Nintendo leads (Samus also comes to mind), where the requisite grunts and yells or whatever were there throughout most of the series, but giving those characters full voices either did or could change the whole experience. (FFX also comes to mind since I was so used to reading text throughout the series, and going back would have preferred traditional text boxes instead of voice acting. That laughing scene at Luca still gives me the shivers.) I haven't played Other M but heard that it had an effect on the player's perception of Samus through the voice acting and dialog, and am betting that would happen with Link if a Zelda game was fully voiced.
It would be really odd to have a Zelda where Link talks often or has lots of dialog, as he has always said things without saying things. (Appropriate nod to the facial expressions in WW.) The world around him is where everything takes place, and it colors the experience of the games instead of having Link be the one that does it. Giving Link lots of dialog and a voice and character behind it could make it less of a Zelda game at heart and would give it more of something most other games have these days - a lead character with a story/personality that could be compared to lots of other leads. (Picture Link finishing off whatever version of Gohma is in the fully-voiced Zelda and saying something like "You're FINISHED, monster!" in a cheesy faux-angst voice... that would totally suck me out of the experience and is very *un*Zelda.) What makes Zelda and Link unique in this age of having voices behind everything is specifically the lack of voice acting, which in turn makes me feel like *I'm* the one experiencing the adventure, not watching someone else experience the adventure, if that makes sense. The lack of voice acting/immersion factor is the same for me with Samus in SM and MP1-2 (not commenting much on MP3 due to its NPC voice acting, which I felt disrupted the flow and the feeling of loneliness/desperation of the game compared to the first two).
All of which was much more eloquently summed up with this:
Voiced dialogue would undermine the sense of minimalism that is part of what makes each entry feel so grand.
Soooooo, I'm gonna go tool around in Twilight Princess for a bit and enjoy that. 
avatar! wrote:If Nintendo released an exclusive Fire Emblem game for the Wii U, I would be sold. I can't really think of any other Nintendo-exclusive title that would make me instantly get a Wii U. A Zelda game would not do it, unless they really wowed me (you know, by doing basic things, such as having fully voiced dialogue)!
Voiced dialogue would undermine the sense of minimalism that is part of what makes each entry feel so grand.
How about an Etrisn Oddessy on Wii U
I totally disagree. I don't think voiced dialogue would undermine any sense of minimalism... which I never really sensed in Zelda in the first place. Zelda is chalk-full of in-your-face places, enemies, and story, as well as dialogue. I see no minimalism here. Characters are always saying something, telling you where to go next, and next, and next... and Nintendo continues to use the sound effects that they used since the N64 days ("hey", "ooh", "ahhhh", "hehehe"). I really don't care if Link never talks, but other characters should definitely have voice overs. I think Zelda fans can come up with numerous excuses for Zelda games, but in the end, I think Nintendo is just doing their thing and completely ignoring any industry standards (which is sad, since years ago Nintendo helped establish some of these standards).
I would love to see Etrian Odyssey for next gen. If that was a Wii U exclusive, I would consider purchasing a Wii U just for that. Now, EO is a series which is much more minimalistic than Zelda. However, even those games have some lines of fully-voiced dialogue, as well as fully-voiced cutscenes.
I split the Zelda discussion off from the Wii U topic so avatar can have a place to point to anytime he wants to complain about the Zelda series not having voice acting. 
I think voice acting could add a tremendous amount of character to the Zelda series actually, especially the more cartoony entries like the handheld ones and Wind Waker.
Pointing to the fact that the voice acting was bad in another game hardly makes it a reason to say that voice acting itself is a detriment. A game would be better off even without much story or dialog if they're done poorly (incidentally two other areas I don't recall Zelda games excelling at from my limited experience).
Metroid Other M is certainly a good example of not just poor voice acting but bad storytelling in general bringing the game down. Also Metroid is at its roots a dark and silent series set in the void of space. Zelda is completely different - full of character interaction and dialog.
Zane, regarding your comments about not wanting to hear Link talk, you realize they could have all the other characters talk and keep Link silent? That would work well I think.
That laughing scene at Luca still gives me the shivers.) I haven't played Other M but heard that it had an effect on the player's perception of Samus through the voice acting and dialog, and am betting that would happen with Link if a Zelda game was fully voiced.
It's amazing how few people seem to understand that the laughing scene at Luca was SUPPOSED to be cheesy.
If anything, this scene would totally NOT HAVE WORKED if there hadn't been voice acting.
And Other M was idiotic not so much because of the voice acting but because the dialogue was retarded and they totally destroyed Samus's character. That's what you get for outsourcing one of the few game series with a strong female protagonist to the biggest sexists in the industry though.
Pointing to the fact that the voice acting was bad in another game hardly makes it a reason to say that voice acting itself is a detriment.
Yeah, I was being facetious there. I also considered pointing at the old Zelda cartoon from the 80s, but I kinda liked that one 
In any case, Link should not be given dialogue because we've come so far without voice acting now that it would only be weird.
I guess I can see it working if only NPCs are voices though. I still don't think it's necessary in any case.
Ugh, sorry, I have to agree with Zane. I don't know what the original sounded like or was supposed to sound like, but the Luca scene was downright AWFUL. I don't remember much of FFX, but that is one scene that sticks out in my mind for all the wrong reasons (the other being that it felt like it was a cheesy attempt to drive home the idea that Tidus and Yuna had feelings for each other). In general though, I remember Tidus' voice grating my nerves for a good portion of the game.
I really haven't played through a Zelda game since Lttp (yes it's been that long), so I can't really comment on how effective voice acting would or wouldn't be for a newer installment. But for several games (Chrono Trigger immediately coming to mind), a silent protagonist with people around them talking would seem most effective, with the occasional menu-based decision thrown in.
That's what you get for outsourcing one of the few game series with a strong female protagonist to the biggest sexists in the industry though.
I'm pretty sure Yoshio Sakamoto and the Nintendo side are responsible for the awful narrative portion of Other M, not Tecmo which just handled the game itself. Other M is the next logical step in the storytelling that Sakamoto started with Fusion, but taken way too far. It's interesting how someone so well versed in the series completely misunderstood what made the series great when he finally got a chance to make a new one.
Ugh, sorry, I have to agree with Zane. I don't know what the original sounded like or was supposed to sound like, but the Luca scene was downright AWFUL. I don't remember much of FFX, but that is one scene that sticks out in my mind for all the wrong reasons (the other being that it felt like it was a cheesy attempt to drive home the idea that Tidus and Yuna had feelings for each other). In general though, I remember Tidus' voice grating my nerves for a good portion of the game.
Oh yeah, sorry, I've never played anything but the JP version so I was talking about that one.
I've heard the English one is pretty bad though.
It's...an experience.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5FTJxfV3pc
Yuna: You probably shouldn't laugh anymore.
Truer words were never spoken. Funny thing, I haven't seen it in over 10 years, so I did get a minor nostalgic vibe from it. Must be the music.
I really don't care if Link never talks, but other characters should definitely have voice overs.
That would be fine with me. To me it just feels traditional for Link to not have any spoken dialog. Having more battle cries, finishing blow yells, etc. would be right up Link's alley though.
avatar! wrote:I really don't care if Link never talks, but other characters should definitely have voice overs.
That would be fine with me. To me it just feels traditional for Link to not have any spoken dialog. Having more battle cries, finishing blow yells, etc. would be right up Link's alley though.
There's nothing wrong with a silent protagonist. In Dragon Age, your character says nothing despite the fact that there are hours of spoken dialogue in the game. In Dark Souls, your character says nothing, despite the fact that nearly every other character you meet has at least a few lines of dialogue. In Zelda, you just get nothing. Perhaps Nintendo doesn't care because all they have to do is plop the title "Zelda" on a game and it tends to sell millions. Even Link's Crossbow Training (which I heard was abysmal) sold over 3 million copies.
It's...an experience.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5FTJxfV3pc
Yuna: You probably shouldn't laugh anymore.
Truer words were never spoken. Funny thing, I haven't seen it in over 10 years, so I did get a minor nostalgic vibe from it. Must be the music.
Hmm, that's not notably worse than the JP version.
It's MEANT to be cheesy and dumb.
By the way, that totally reminds me of this:
I feel like that laughing scene on FF X just doesn't really translate itself at all to western culture for some reason. It was annoying on first time I played the game and it's still annoying. Whole thing could have be directed way better, but no. Good game otherwise.
There's nothing wrong with a silent protagonist. In Dragon Age, your character says nothing despite the fact that there are hours of spoken dialogue in the game. In Dark Souls, your character says nothing, despite the fact that nearly every other character you meet has at least a few lines of dialogue. In Zelda, you just get nothing.
Yeah, nothing wrong with a silent protagonist if it fits the game. With DA, what I remember you do choose lines for your character, and thus I would like him to speak the bloody lines, but with Dark Souls, my hero doesn't need to talk, his/her sword does the job
And I would like to see Link actually speak, but I wouldn't trust Nintendo at all do it properly, thanks to Other M. Heck, he even wouldn't have to blabber all the time, just talk when it's needed and keep it short. And try to keep away from 'funny' one liners, unless the game itself is played to be more humourous than serious. But knowing how the sidekicks/helpers are done with Zelda-games nowadays, people would probably shoot themselves first and then destroy their TV's and speakers after enjoying hours of "HEY LISTEN" "DID YOU UNDERSTAND ALL THAT WAS SAID".
I'm surprised no one has brought up the Mario cast yet. Having them all just be silent the whole way through would just improve the experience of the more recent games a LOT. ESPECIALLY Mario himself.
I feel like that laughing scene on FF X just doesn't really translate itself at all to western culture for some reason. It was annoying on first time I played the game and it's still annoying. Whole thing could have be directed way better, but no. Good game otherwise.
There was a good write-up on socksmakepeoplesexy.net that discussed the voice acting in FFX, and shed some light on why it was such an adventure in hit-or-miss land. It discusses the game in general, and is worth the read.
There was a good write-up on socksmakepeoplesexy.net that discussed the voice acting in FFX, and shed some light on why it was such an adventure in hit-or-miss land. It discusses the game in general, and is worth the read.
That is a really nice article, thanks for that.
And yeah, f--- the mini-games in FFX, seriously.
Razakin wrote:I feel like that laughing scene on FF X just doesn't really translate itself at all to western culture for some reason. It was annoying on first time I played the game and it's still annoying. Whole thing could have be directed way better, but no. Good game otherwise.
There was a good write-up on socksmakepeoplesexy.net that discussed the voice acting in FFX, and shed some light on why it was such an adventure in hit-or-miss land. It discusses the game in general, and is worth the read.
Awesome link. Looks like the dude did something similar for all the games in the series:
Idolores wrote:There was a good write-up on socksmakepeoplesexy.net that discussed the voice acting in FFX, and shed some light on why it was such an adventure in hit-or-miss land. It discusses the game in general, and is worth the read.
Awesome link. Looks like the dude did something similar for all the games in the series:
There went two hours of my day. Good stuff.
Zane, regarding your comments about not wanting to hear Link talk, you realize they could have all the other characters talk and keep Link silent? That would work well I think.
Yeah man, that totally makes sense. Remember you're talking to a stubborn purist here... I still use a CRT TV.
Adam Corn wrote:Zane, regarding your comments about not wanting to hear Link talk, you realize they could have all the other characters talk and keep Link silent? That would work well I think.
Yeah man, that totally makes sense. Remember you're talking to a stubborn purist here... I still use a CRT TV.
I hear you! and I'm not saying all games should have voice. However, for the most part Nintendo has been slow to accept industry standards. It's not like they did not have the capabilities back during the N64 days (Perfect Dark was fully voiced)! Look at Eternal Darkness, could you imagine what that would have been like if there were no voice actors? Sure, still would have been fun, but it would have lost much of the atmosphere. I think it's high-time we heard more than recycled N64 sounds.
Look at Eternal Darkness, could you imagine what that would have been like if there were no voice actors? Sure, still would have been fun, but it would have lost much of the atmosphere.
I 100% agree with you on this one. Loved the VA in that game (even if it was campy at times), and think that Silicon Knights did a fantastic job using the VA to differentiate between different time periods and locations in the game. Holy crap, I forgot about how awesome that game was - thanks for the reminder!
PS: A trip down (creepy-ass) memory lane... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_dSDsyVVSA
avatar! wrote:Look at Eternal Darkness, could you imagine what that would have been like if there were no voice actors? Sure, still would have been fun, but it would have lost much of the atmosphere.
I 100% agree with you on this one. Loved the VA in that game (even if it was campy at times), and think that Silicon Knights did a fantastic job using the VA to differentiate between different time periods and locations in the game. Holy crap, I forgot about how awesome that game was - thanks for the reminder!
PS: A trip down (creepy-ass) memory lane... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_dSDsyVVSA
Some games just stand the test of time, Eternal Darkness is one of them! I think the soundtrack will still be awesome 100 years from now. Along with the original Alone in the Dark
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsGaVrMr9N8
it's the best Lovecraftian-inspired game or movie (and there have been tons)I have ever seen.
i prefer the little typewriter noise as each character/symbol appears in a dialogue text box.
and even more,, i like being able to press a button to fast forward thru it if i'm replaying