Are you still lifting? I got back into it about 4 months ago after taking 6 months off, and have been moving along fairly well. Though it's probably not much to you, I got a new high on my decline bench (315 lbs). Actually I never tried decline benching until about 2 months ago. I'm feeling better now physically than I ever have. Been working out 4 days a week, 3 hours per day, and haven't been taking any supplements, at least not until tomorrow. The guys at the gym finally talked me into trying CE2 and NO2 platinum, so tomorrow I'll be stacking them to see what kind of results I can obtain. Do you have any experience with these, or know someone that takes them? Good/bad results...side effects...etc? Everyone says I should see an increase in size and strength, and from the looks of it, the CE2 creatine was clinically proven to increase strength, so I guess I'll see what happens. Looking forward to trying something new...I've been known at the gym as one of the few who have never tried any supplements to gain strength, so I guess I'm no longer special.

Well, I personally don't recommend using creatine or other synthetic chemicals (I believe in keeping things as natural as possible).  From what I can tell the increase (at least initially) in mass due to creatine is water retention.  Also, many physicians don't recommend using such substances (which incidentally are banned in some countries).  Of course, I exercise more for strength and staying fit rather than trying to become huge.  However, for what it's worth, that's my take on it.

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"Winners don't use drugs."

I saw it on a video game in an arcade once, so it must be true.

Jumping from taking no supplements whatsoever to creatine seems a bit extreme to me.  Wouldn't want to try your luck with a simple protein powder to start?  Granted 1) I'm no expert 2) I'm a bit paranoid about those supplements 3) I haven't gotten "big" yet from going to the gym and probably never will ... but still just a thought

Yeah...I've been hesitant for a while about trying this. It was always fun to tell the guys at the gym that the only thing I was on was chicken. Well...actually I do have a protein shake from time to time, and an occasional energy bar, but not everyday...they upset my stomach.

I'd say 80% of the harcore lifters at my gym are at least on creatine. It feels good for the guys to compliment me on my size and getting there mostly from eating high protein foods, but they always say, imagine how much stronger and more solid you can be if you were on some kind of suppliment. My workout partner says he'll buy up my half of the suppliments if I'm not happy. He's been taking the stuff for a couple years and has won several weight lifting competitions, he swears by the stuff, so I'm gonna give it a test run. Guess there's not too much to lose?

I dunno...
Taking protein powder is one thing.  Taking vitamins is another.  Taking creatine and all that other stuff, well I am thinking it's bound to damage your body in some way shape or form.  What good is it for you to be really big and buff once your heart fails?  Of course, I'm not saying this stuff will destroy your heart...but then again it might.  Point is, it's not well understood (understatement) what this stuff does in the long run, and again let me emphasize that injecting your body with artificial chemicals always has a negative effect.

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Ah, the fringe benifits of pumping one's body full of drugs and potentially harmful substances with the goal of getting bigger muscles; increased narcissism, inflated pride and a bunch of half-naked dudes complimenting other half-naked dudes on how jacked they are.

Yeah, that sounds cool. Drugs and subconscious homosexuality make for an awesome combo.

Hehe... funny!  I have to admit, under all that cynicism you do make some good points.  Nonetheless I do belive that I and many others enjoy working out because

a)it's important to keep healthy
b)it makes you feel better
c)it's relaxing
d)it attracts women (and I mean the good looking kind, although we all know that beauty is in the eye of the beholder)!

Of course, I do more than just lift weights, and I never pump my body with unnatural substances nor do I compliment dudes on how they look (but I like it when the ladies say you look nice...

cheers,

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Heh, thanks man.

Oh, I agree with points A through D without a moment's hesitation, but using drugs and other external chemicals to achieve only letter D (or some equivalent thereof) is a bad, bad idea. It takes away from being healthy, which is really the main reason to work out, and could make things worse by promoting addiction to whatever drugs are being used.

I think you can rule out point A. If creatine is entering the picture, I can't imagine health is a motivating factor here.

So what are the negative side effects of creatine guys? It seems several of you are highly against creatine. What's your basis for being against this suppliment? I'd like to know the negative effects because if it's unhealthy, I'd rather just keep from using it. I appreciate the comments as some are a bit entertaining, but rather than say creatine might be bad, or it's potentially harmful, just post some facts to give me some better insight. For those who don't know what creatine is, here's a link with a little info:

http://www.creatine-dangers.info/danger … atine.html

Agreed.

a) is the reason I made my original post. STC was probably not the best place to ask something related to suppliments, but then again, it was directed to Jodo who appears to be, or was, a very dedicated lifter with experience in the matter.

b)right-o! I'm 34 but feel better now than I did as a teen.

c) It's relaxing for me when I go mountain bike riding, unfortunately my 3 hour workout is nothing close to relaxing. It's hard work, but I think it's well worth it.

d)Attracts women? My gf of the past two months seems to be happy with the results and encourages me daily to keep up the work.

I don't mind compliments from guys, girls, whatever. I'm not homophobic, and am perfectly comfortable with my sexuality. I've told other guys they look great and to keep up the good work. Weight lifting/body building is anything but easy and requires alot of dedication. I have a great amount of respect for anyone in the sport, well those who work for it.

Oh I have no problem with creatine as a substance in itself. It's simply my opinion that once you get to a point where you are looking at such supplements, your reasons have moved on from health reasons. Over-developing your muscles beyond the point a natural healthy diet can assist will not make you more healthy. Just my opinion.

You're asking a question that currently has no answer.  People are such complicated systems that it'll likely be many many years before a better understanding is reached (as an example, cocaine was thought to be beneficial for many years, and was readily available all across the world (legally) for over 20 years).  I don't think you'll find a doctor that will say that injecting artificial substances into your body will not likely have some negative effect.  Use at your own risk.

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theres a guy at my work who is 29 and weighs 240,, he squats 700, benches 425, and eats like a horse. I asked him one time how much he spends on food and he said about $800 a month...

Does that include supplements as well?  I know that people can easily spend hundreds of dollars per month on supplements alone... it's like a chemical factory for some of these guys!  Sorry, but there's just no way that's good for your body.

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I spend no more than $40-$50 per month on food..

Woah...! 

a)Where do you live?
b)What do you eat?
c)How much do you weigh?!

I can easily spend $80 a week buying groceries.  Of course, I typically buy "healthy" food which is more expensive.  Also, Boston is expensive.

cheers,

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All Ramen diet?

LOL..been there, done that.

My power has been out for 36 hours, so I've had fun keeping food cold and playing Silent Hill for real. Anyway, 315 in the decline press is incredible. I have long arms, so I would have to work incredibly hard to push that kind of weight; I'd probably need to weigh around 220 or 230 to throw around 315 in bench (any angle). Right now I weigh 200, which is not heavy for 6'2".

   The thing about supplements is THEY WORK, so I'd recommend them for people that plan to do something with weight training, such as a bodybuilding or strongman competition. If you're just some dude trying to stay in shape, they aren't really necessary. Normal food is cheaper and works just fine. I don't take supplements and I can deadlift 405 lbs. for 8 reps.

   The most important thing to know about weight training is how to move the weight from point A to point B. It determines how you will look and how often you will get injured. For instance, there are many different ways to bench press (never mind the angle) - it depends on where the bar hits the chest, how far apart your hands are, where your elbows are, etc.. The bench press is actually very complicated if you understand it. Most often, guys do not understand what they are doing. I blame lack of understanding on lack of gains. Supplements are good for people that are serious; people that have taken the time to understand how to lift weights. If you're just some dude that has no weight training experience and uses supplements, then that would be like driving a normal car that looks like a racecar on the inside. What's the point? It ain't gonna do shit, so why f--- with it?

Most "supplements" you can obtain from real food, and are not worth the money.