For the record, in FFIV Cecil and Rosa not only hug and kiss, but they are a couple before the story begins.

-Joshua

Regarding the disappointments toward JRPG's... two words: Shadow. Hearts.

They're very much worth a shot if you're tired of the same ol' generic RPG fare.

Indeed.  The Japanese tend to be much less affectionate toward each other physically in public than I'm used to from America.  Hell, there are old people in the town where I live who think it's weird and wrong that young people these days get married because they love each other instead of because it's the "proper" thing to do to continue society.

Actually yeah... don't expect a lot of effective love stories out of your jrpgs because relationships here are MESSED UP in general.

hence resulting in awesome movies like Koi No Mon...

I'd like to comment more when I have a chance later, but for now, here's another matter of VGM-related inquiry:

Do you ever find yourself listening to the same track looped over and over? If you do, do you think it's because of conditioning related to listening to sequenced music in games?

(For example, I've been listening to the first movement of Dancing Mad for about an hour as of this moment, thanks to the SPC file. )

Funny you should mention that, I've been listening to the Rockman DASH soundtrack and I can honestly put the track "The Apple Market" on repeat and listen to it for hours because it is just so easy going. I think conditioning has something to do with it but I think composition has even more to do with it.

I can't loop tracks like that anymore, unless they have a seriously good hook to them. Even then, it's basically like "using them up" too much at once. I remember one of my first mp3 files was Bubbleman's theme from Rockman 2: The Power Fighters and by the time I got the album, I didn't want to even look at that theme anymore. Gunmetal Action (the Wild Arms 3 battle theme) was another example: love it on the OST and I listened to it sparatically, then I got the game and now I can't listen through it anymore with a straight face.

As far as RPG's go, I don't really agree with the whole "touching/showing affection" thing...That's a non-issue (although I tend to detest when an RPG attempts to be as vague as possible...dunno if they're trying to seem artistic or what, but it's annoying as hell). I agree to a certain extent about the anime cliches that many such games share and it has become really tiring when they don't do much to shake things up. But I think the big problem is the time factor...Really, RPG's nowadays take about 10 hours before they get good (when you start getting advanced attacks, when the storyline starts to take off, when you meet more interesting party members), whereas a lot of the "classic" RPG's made far better use of their time in those respects. I always said by the time Chrono Cross gets to the actual point of the game, I could've gotten through the entire main part of Chrono Trigger (which is a span of about 12 hours...That gets me right to the point before I start the sidequests and the Lavos fight is open) and even started some of those miniquests. Right now, I have about 4 hours logged on Phantasy Star IV and it's amazing how much good stuff is crammed in there...Most RPG's nowadays, I've probably just been introduced to the first couple of characters and am about to leave the first town. It's the first case in a long time where everything I do actually feels like a big deal.

But really, it's the same with any game that's expected for a large time commitment...30-40 hours (and more, if needed) is simply too long if the game isn't absolutely amazing. A stale/flawed battle system and/or bad characters/storyline can spell death for an RPG, but I really can't imagine playing, say, Spyro, Mario or any action game for that period of time either (or Zelda for that matter). Something like Burnout 3, which is 100% twitch arcade action, or an addictive fighter, I can see, but a collect-a-thon or an RPG that doesn't offer compelling stories or characters or battles probably won't get the time.

But that said, I'm glad we're overloaded on RPG's, as opposed to most of the 90's, where we got fucked over on game after game not coming over from Japan. There's always the option. I'm too busy to play Ar Tonelico now, but I'm certainly glad they brought the game over so I can get to it when I have the time. And also stuff like the Legend of Heroes games...FINALLY, they're bringing them over. Maybe they're not anything special, but at least we're being given the chance to make that judgement for ourselves. I really should have a look at my backlog...It's a complete mess.

Edit: BTW, I would argue that Suikoden II is easily worth the $150 price of admission (and not just because I bought it the day of release for a measly $40). I think the story is required for anyone who plays JRPG's, considering the amount of characters involved and how well they're developed without sacrificing the overall picture (something almost no RPG series gets as well as Suikoden) and the gameplay (which includes battles and actually finding the many party members) is fine, considering you're controlling a six-person party and many customizing options are available. Of course, I'd also say V offers an experience that is just as satisfying (maybe SLIGHTLY less so...I don't think it's as raw as some S2 moments), so save some money and go with that first.

Yeah, oversaturation is probably an issue. At least when RPGs were brought over in the SNES days, they were almost always classics. Or maybe they felt like classics because they were all we got and I played them over and over again.

I don't know... There were a lot of moments in V that gutted me, more than I expected. Some of the most memorable scenes in RPG history are in that game (and some of the saddest as well). On the other hand, II is equally as good (and as sad) and it's a bit more focused (probably because it's shorter). I love both of them.

A-f*cking-MEN, brutha.
I was going to write the same thing, but you beat me to it.

Saying J-RPGs suck because Xenosaga and Wild Arms suck is like saying Fighting Games suck because Pit Fighter sucks.

On the hugging thing, no, it is not very common to hug in Japanese culture, at least not in the open, so that might explain something.
On the other hand, I'm hard pressed to recall any recent Square-Enix RPG that did NOT have hugging in it.

FFVIII, FFIX, FFX, FFX-2, Kingdom Hearts, you name it.

FFXII was actually a fresh break from the norm because it DIDN'T have a totally obvious love story.

Yes I do, when I particularly like a certain track, I can listen to it time and time again (for a certain period at least), but I doubt it has anything to do with me being "conditioned" by sequenced music. I've had plenty of non-gaming neighbours who had no trouble of playing the same song over and over again

I dunno... I'm torn on Xenosaga.  Episode III managed to be a pretty damn good game... it's just a shame that it's the last part of a story that you have to drag yourself through the mediocrity of I and the crapfest of II to get through all of.

Also re: Shadow Hearts, yeah, it's totally one of the best rpg series out there.

Have to agree here. Shadow Hearts as a series is continually excellent, if not in execution, then at least in heart and spirit. A very 'different' series.

Yeah, I really enjoyed Shadow Hearts (especially the second game). The third game was pretty dull though.

My only comment toward the whole affection in games thing is that I really don’t care. At this point, I’m not playing games to watch two characters fall in love and get touchy-feely. I’d rather them wax philosophy and enlighten my mind instead of my soft, gooey center.

As for Shadow Hearts, 2 was really great. I got that and SMT: Nocturne at the same time, and it was no surprise that SH2 won me over the easiest. However, a year later, I swore off JRPGs and what game brings my faith back? Nocturne. Despite the tired RPG mechanics of the game, the content and context of the game’s story was fresh enough to become one of my favorites of all time. To sum up: the Judgment Ring was fun; the Conception was fascinating.

Back on topic…(I hope)

Today I noticed that I ALMOST used a certain phenomenon…the Video Game Music Defense (VGMD).

I was talking to this guy in class and he was going on and on about how much of a hardcore gamer he is because he plays Wii every night and that he loves Earthbound, blah blah blah. What I was going to say to him, but didn’t, was: “Well, you know, I collect and listen to video game music pretty much exclusively.” The hope of course being that this would define me as more of a hardcore gamer and allow me to get away from him with my sanity.

I used the VGMD a couple of years ago talking with a teacher. She said she gets a kick out of listening to non-mainstream music, so she listens to a lot of musicals. So, I told her…you know. It basically stopped the conversation. In this case, the VGMD was a lot like using a certain four letter word that begins with “c” when having an insult contest. It’s an instant win.

Or is it? Have you used the VGMD? Is VGM obscure enough to make it a show-stopper?

As I mentioned earlier, I listen to a lot more than video game music. But seeing as many of my other tastes tend to be rather eclectic as well, it becomes difficult to answer what so many people seem to think is an easy question: "what kind of music do you listen to?" It's such a pain that I usually attempt to dodge the question altogether. What inevitably happens if I answer is that the inquirer recognizes one or two artists I name, and assumes that I listen to a lot of other things that sound like that.

Explaining the VGM can be especially tough though - I recently explained to someone that I was listening to "the soundtrack to a Korean variant of an arcade video game". Maybe in the future I should just stick to "Korean heavy metal". I just hope no one asks what I'm listening to when FM Sound Module Maniax is on my playlist!

That "defense" works well in situations like the one where you mentioned your teacher and people that pride themselves on listening to non-mainstream music. It really can't get any more anti-mainstream than obscure VGM, really. I enjoy using that line of conversation when people pride themselves on how cool they are for listening to radio shit. I was at a work function a few weeks ago and one of the guys in my department was going on and on about how Green Day is the "best band on the planet", and he asked me what kind of music I listened to. I said mostly imported Japanese instrumental soundtrack albums, and I listed a few composers I liked. I can still picture his face when I rolled off "Yu Miyake, Yoshitaka Hirota, Hiroshi Okubo..."

I disagree with this. That's like saying that someone who listens to progressive metal is an excellent guitarist. Sure, the guitar is an integral part of progressive metal and often people that listen to that kind of music end up picking up a guitar at some point or another (we are a dime a dozen), but one can surely exist without the other. In that same line of thought, someone can play Halo for ten hours a day but not pay any mind to the soundtrack, and someone else can buy the OST, listen to it exclusively because they enjoy it so much, but still not know a damn thing about the game. Would that make the CD purchaser a hardcore Halo fanatic?

I'm far from being a hardcore gamer, but I consider myself an avid VGM fan. Totally separate things. But, then again, I guess someone that labels themself as a "hardcore gamer" deserves a kick in the junk.

I gave Metal Slug 4 the ost of 2006 Award and Ape Escape 3 (thanks to Miss Liu) the Unreleased soundtrack of 2006 Award.

( :

We might be seeing a new generation of gaymes where instead of saving the princess in another castle..
You save the prince instead
haven't you seen the demographic for gay.com on those big billboards??

More on this topic please.

I think it could be argued that relationships are messed up no matter where you live.

Yeah, really. Since when did we live in a 'perfect' world??

Well, obviously.  But I'm curious as to how their's are messed up in comparison with how ours are messed up.

Why did the third page of this topic all of a sudden turn into an alternate dimension?

Because the third page is teh third Dimension

duh

Edit - wrote a far too long and rambling accostal of an entire culture that just wasn't fair.  Mostly it has to do with a man and woman getting married and having children because it's the societally expected thing to do, rather than actually for love, and the terrible marriages (with nearly no chance of divorce) that result because of it, and the problems therein.

Teh way I see it, VGM is already a subculture to begin with, one of the coolest ways to say 'f--- you' to bitney speerz corporate sleazes. VGM has changed my life so much, my friend in middle school got me into the scene in spring 1994 with the FF6 ost. He let me 'borrow' it ad nauseum (as well as the DQ4 Symphonic Suite) and the rest is HIStory.

His brother also had a MEGA/SEGA CD system from Japan, the whole concept of playing 16-bit games like Streets of Rage and Final Fight to genuine redbook arranged (and studio-sounding quality) was just..
I'll never forget hearing some games for the first time at his house, Earnest Evans was like an Indiana Jones version of Contra/MetaSlug and the anime' cutscenes booming through JBL! speakers didn't hurt either! lolol

% of vgm in collection? i'd say about 30-35% at this point..

Dude, you knew someone that early importing game music? There's a story there if you don't mind expanding - how did he find out about game music albums and get them in that pre-commercial internet period? Anyone else start collecting VGM insanely early like that?

Also, I definitely had a purpose for this topic - I was interested in doing a study of game music-related stuff for school or fun/whatever. Still might, so if you can think of any other complementary subjects, by all means, share!

The album mentioned there is FF6, which could well be the "Kefka's Domain" CD release that Squrae did in the United States by mail-order that year.  And I think I ordered my first CD in something like 1997, which wouldn't have been that much later.  Gamemusic.com has been around for a looong time.