Soundtrack Central The best classic game music and more

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Amazingu Jan 4, 2008

Sami wrote:

Speak for yourself. And if you were jaded, you wouldn't like anything. Growing up doesn't mean you can't recognize quality.

Now see, that implies that people who still like FF are somehow "not grown up", which I find rather insulting.

Like I said, I think a lot of the current FF hate is coming from FFXII, which I guess is understandable since it felt like Vagrant Story 2 with the FF staple slapped on it for easy money, I'll admit that much, but it was by no means a bad game. But it was an extremely well-made game with fantastic production values.
Perhaps Square can be accused of slapping familiar names on games that could have been New IPs or new games in less popular series, but I absolutely do not think that the actual quality of their games has suffered much over the past few years.

As for New Ip's, there's It's a Wonderful World, or whatever the title is now, and that sold like ass, BECAUSE it was a New Ip, presumably. Haven't played it yet myself so I can't attest for the quality, but I definitely plan on playing it some time.

So, uh, what I'm saying is, maybe they're being a bit too liberal with throwing the FF staple around, but they can't be accused of not trying anything new, and I find that the majority of their games are of perfectly satisfying quality (not nearly ALL of them, mind you).

Oh, and I WILL admit they f*cked up the Mana series.

GoldfishX wrote:

Oh, and the two people most synonymous with the series left our company...No one will notice

Uematsu is missed, but he was hardly part of the experience of the games as far as I'm concerned.
He's still making great music (Lost Odyssey is quite good actually) so what does it matter they're not FF games anymore?
As for Sakaguchi (I assume these are the two people you mean), look at Blue Dragon and ASH and tell me he's still the man he used to be. Again, Lost Odyssey is quite good though.

XLord007 Jan 4, 2008

SonicPanda wrote:

Let's not forget, also, the DQ whoring: Joker, Swords, Rocket Slime, IX, IV (and presumably V and VI) DS.

Yes, DQ5 and DQ6 are official for DS.  They've already released screens for DQ5.  They should both be out before DQ9's debut.

GoldfishX Jan 4, 2008

I just it odd that as soon as Sakaguchi leaves, the floodgates open. Although I do hold him responsible for the travesty that was the FF Movie...I never said the guy was perfect, but he did establish the series and it wouldn't be nearly as profitable without him nowadays without a rich history to fall back on.

I think Uematsu helped establish a lot of norms in RPG music and his style is very much associated with FF to me. I certainly can't see the current people doing the scores drawing the same audience he did. I thought FFIV and FFVI had absolutely tremendous, memorable music when I first played them and they helped get me into VGM (though I would hardly call them solely responsible)...I don't see anything nowadays from Square having that same impact on players as a whole. FF soundtracks don't really carry much weight when there's a bunch of different people doing them...I was already disgusted with Mizuta, totally indifferent to Sakimoto/Tanioka, bored with Dirge of Cerberus (Hama's okay, but I've grown away from him and I really hated this particular score), then Ishimoto came along and pretty much proved how desperate Square is to get music into the games. Crisis Core was rock bottom as far as I'm concerned...and I thought FFXI was the low point for a LONG time.

My thought is basically the same as Castlevania or Rockman: Can't they at least change the name with different people at the helm than the "classic" incarnations? Oh wait, no they can't...Wouldn't sell as much.

Megavolt Jan 4, 2008

No.  I'm not interested in much of anything that Square does, actually.  I liked FFXII, but I expected to due to Matsuno's involvement.  Square used to set the bar for excellence but now they struggle to meet it.  They've been outdone by Atlus, Nippon Ichi, Nautilus, etc.  There have always been other good RPGs besides those from Square, but never before has Square failed to meet the standards of the pack.  They used to lead the pack.

I think if you ask people what the best Square games are, most would choose more titles from the SNES and PS1 eras than from the PS2 era.  Most of my favorite PS2 RPGs are non-Square titles.  It's not something that I wanted out of any sort of irrational bias or blinding nostalgia.  It's just the way things turned out.  There were RPGs that I thought were nearly as good as some favorites of old.  They just weren't Square developed.

Square is out of ideas, and it shows.  Making money is always a part of things, but now it's the easy buck that takes complete priority over any sort of artistic integrity.  Bring on the spinoffs and halfbaked sequels.  I won't be playing them and I won't hold Square in high regard until they do something to prove to me that they're actually interested in putting out something creative again.  Right now they're just a quick cash machine for Enix.

Sami Jan 5, 2008 (edited Jan 5, 2008)

Amazingu wrote:

Now see, that implies that people who still like FF are somehow "not grown up", which I find rather insulting.

I meant no such thing, and I specifically meant that these "jaded" grown up gamers can still recognize quality as it relates to them. Some people like the newer FF games, or some of them, and this is where the tastes disperse. However, not liking them does not make gamers "jaded".

By the way, I very much liked Vagrant Story, and FFXII has nothing on VS.

Qui-Gon Joe Jan 5, 2008

Sami wrote:

FFXII has nothing on VS.

It's true.  FFXII is actually playable.  *smirk*

(No, I'm not trying to start a flame war - Vagrant Story is near the top of my list of high quality games that I wanted to like but just couldn't because I couldn't stand doing 1 damage at a time against bosses for hours)

Idolores Jan 5, 2008

Qui-Gon Joe wrote:
Sami wrote:

FFXII has nothing on VS.

It's true.  FFXII is actually playable.  *smirk*

(No, I'm not trying to start a flame war - Vagrant Story is near the top of my list of high quality games that I wanted to like but just couldn't because I couldn't stand doing 1 damage at a time against bosses for hours)

You had to know the weapon system inside and out to do any real amount of damage against anything. Hell of a learning curve, but Tactics and FFXII were also similar in regards to just not being a cakewalk. They were all done by the same guy, right?

Qui-Gon Joe Jan 5, 2008 (edited Jan 5, 2008)

Idolores wrote:

Hell of a learning curve, but Tactics and FFXII were also similar in regards to just not being a cakewalk. They were all done by the same guy, right?

Yeah, Yasumi Matsuno.  I've always had a tremendous amount of respect for the guy even if I don't usually play/like his games.

Edit: I should probably mention that I was extremely un-excited for FFXII before it came out and put off playing it for a really long time with the assumption that I was going to hate it.  I'm glad now that I actually gave it a chance.

Megavolt Jan 5, 2008

Qui-Gon Joe wrote:

Vagrant Story is near the top of my list of high quality games that I wanted to like but just couldn't because I couldn't stand doing 1 damage at a time against bosses for hours

It seems like all of Matsuno's games have their quirks.  You either develop a taste for them or you find yourself annoyed by them.  That being said, I don't think his games are for everyone, except maybe FFTactics for some reason.   I don't know how Vagrant Story got such rave reviews when it seems like half of the gaming populace finds the gameplay to be broken in a way that cripples the fun factor.

Sami Jan 5, 2008

Idolores wrote:

They were all done by the same guy, right?

FFXII was mostly finished by other Square Enix employees. Yasumi Matsuno left Square Enix halfway (or maybe even a quarter) through FFXII, and it shows. Apparently, he had some influence over Hitoshi Sakimoto as well, the two of them being friends.

Qui-Gon Joe Jan 5, 2008

Sami wrote:

Yasumi Matsuno left Square Enix halfway (or maybe even a quarter) through FFXII, and it shows. Apparently, he had some influence over Hitoshi Sakimoto as well, the two of them being friends.

I'd say it was probably until the 3/4 mark at the very least.    He left the production in August 2005 and the game was released in March of 2006.  Kawazu just oversaw the game's completion as it was already set out.  The game had been shown playable to the press already at that point and no major changes occurred before release.

Cedille Jan 6, 2008

Qui-Gon Joe wrote:
Sami wrote:

Yasumi Matsuno left Square Enix halfway (or maybe even a quarter) through FFXII, and it shows. Apparently, he had some influence over Hitoshi Sakimoto as well, the two of them being friends.

I'd say it was probably until the 3/4 mark at the very least.    He left the production in August 2005 and the game was released in March of 2006.

August 2005 is when SQUARE ENIX finally revealed Matsuno had left. A lead programmer who recently met with Matsuno again in November says the last time he had seen him was approximately 3 years ago. Considering Daisuke Watanabe, one of the replacements, joined the production in November 2004, it's pretty safe to assume at that point Matsuno already sorta walked off his job (his last appearance on the media after the first postponement announcement was actually June or July 2004). 

Anyways it's fair to say FFXII was still led by Matsuno for the most part as long as he had worked on the game for at least 2.5 years since 2002 (it's 2001 when Sakaguchi offered him it, though), but not elaborated by him. Nor did anybody elaborate it (it's unbelievable Ito finally improved on Esper or License Board on Japan-only Internal Version).

allyourbaseare Jan 7, 2008

Megavolt wrote:

They've been outdone by Atlus, Nippon Ichi, Nautilus, etc.

I know you said "etc...", but let's not forget Level 5 who are working on the very promising "White Knight Story" for the PS3.  Really, Sony should hang on to them lest we get a slew of FF remakes for the PS3. 

And really, there's not too much harm done if we all don't go out and buy the remakes.  Now, I'm guilty on at least one or two titles (I bought my dad FF:Tactics for the psp, and I bought Valkyrie Profile for the psp and the anthologies for the PS1) but even I know a half-assed remake when I see one. 

It's not that SE doesn't really want to try new IP's, it's just that they never make it to America unless they're hugely successful (or have the potential to be) in the Asian market (I'm still impressed that Unlimited Saga made it over here).  I'd absolutely love to try Code Age Commanders or "It's a Wonderful World" or really anything new that the company dishes out.  "Threads of Fate/Dew Prism" was a fun little game for the PS1 and still holds its own as one of the best OST's that square's come out with in a long time. 

Would FF: Crystal Chronicles sold as well had the FF label not been applied?  Of course not.  Still, that was a fun game if you had two or 3 people there with you.

tenninplusplus Jan 7, 2008

I just don't really see how anyone can still hold this series in high regard anymore, considering the blatantly obvious lengths it's going to being milked.

I don't see why anyone would hold "the series" in high or low regard.  It's just a brand at this point.  A numbered main series entry is guaranteed to at least have a lot of resources put into it and be at least somewhat interesting, but for spinoffs and stuff, being called Final Fantasy something doesn't really indicate anything to me one way or another, positive or negative.  I just look at the games individually.

Angela Jan 7, 2008

Oh my stars, it's tennin!  How the hell are ya? ;)

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