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I was actually going to post here to ask about this game.  I picked it up and it's still in its shrinkwrap, waiting while I'm too terrified to open it up.  I've never actually played a roguelike (note the proper spelling there... ), and I'm really on the fence about whether I'm going to like this or not.  I'm dying to try it because stylistically it looks stunning.  It's the gameplay that scares me, though.

So!  Explain to me what exactly I'm in for here.  I've read a LOT about the game and still just don't get it... so you try to get as far as you can in this tower before you die, right?  But when you do die, you lose everything you've picked up and all the levels you've gained, and essentially you're starting at the beginning of the game?  And you just keep retrying until you manage to get through?  Does that mean that the game is really short once you figure out how to beat all the enemies?  I guess I just don't understand how you make progress in the game.  Can you explain this in more detail for me?

Jeremy Parish compared roguelikes to Super Mario Bros.
There are no savepoints in either, and you won't finish both on the first or second or third try. But you'll gradually get better in them and eventually get a run that will net you the ending.

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CONNNNNNN! Thanks for the awesome review. I definitely want to try this out. My copy of Baroque (the original) sits solemnly on my shelf, wanting to be played, but knows it won't for lack of a Japanese PS2. This might be my only recourse.

So how does one "beat" the game, if it's possible to say without spoiling something horribly?  Got any tips for me going in as somebody who's never tried the genre before?

This sounds like a game I might really enjoy. I think many people are put off by tough games, but a good RPG should be tough, just not too frustrating... anyway, so I guess you're playing the PS2 version? Are there advantages to the Wii version?

cheers,

-avatar!

As far as I know, the versions are identical EXCEPT that the Wii version has 480p and 16:9 options, while the PS2 version does not.  There are also motion controls available on the Wii one, but you don't have to use them since the game is compatible with the classic controller (anyone know if you can use the Gamecube controller as well?  I'd prefer that, but I doubt it).  So yeah, in general the Wii version could be considered slightly better, but if you're using a standard TV there's not much difference.  I got the Wii version on principle of supporting 3rd party support for it.

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I picked this game up last Tuesday and I was warned beforehand that it is an extremely hardcore dungeon RPG.   I've never played a game like this, so I decided to give it a try.  I've played a little bit and I'm still trying to get a feel for it (i.e I'm lost!).  But now, that I've read your review, McCall, I think I understand the game a bit more.  I'm going to play a some more of it tonight.

Also, I would've loved to hear Iwata's original Baroque score in-game, but what I've heard of the new stuff is decent.

The game doesn't offer Gamecube controller support (though I never understood why some games support the classic controller and not the Cube pad).  The game works fine with the Wiimote and nunchuk though.  The only gesture controlled move is the power attack.  I don't think there's anything else.

Looks like I killed this thread...

Anyone make any progress?  No updates?  Anyone?

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Bought a copy today, but haven't played it yet. I expect you to reimburse me if I don't like it.

it cant be more frustrating than Siren..

Sounds reminiscent of Breath of Fire V ~ Dragon Quarter.

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Did this one receive a soundtrack re-release?

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I actually just picked this up this evening (the game); I think I'll go play it right now.

Nice!  I've made minimal (?) progress since this thread originally appeared.  I just made my way to the bottom of 16 floor labyrinth but I never knew I was supposed to toss items into the consciousness orbs until just now.  With this bit of info, I think I'll be alright from here on out.
But man, this game can be hard as nails!  And I hate those fake wall enemies with a passion!

How deep do the dungeons go, btw!?

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Link? Please? Where I can find and purchase it?

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http://www.cdjapan.co.jp/detailview.html?KEY=STMC-118

Is that it?

Finally, a GOOD Baroque review!

Is it just my strange way of looking at things, or is it really out-of-place that such a dark title like Baroque would be released on the Wii, let alone a Nintendo system, seeing as how they're all about more... "family-friendly" gaming?

You're definitely not alone on that.  LOTS of people still cling to the "dark or mature games can NEVER be on a Nintendo system" misconception.

Wow. Did I just get served, or what?

Come on, now. Mature titles that have been released SOLELY on Nintendo systems have failed; that's because there just isn't that much of a mature fan base on Nintendo systems.

Resident Evil is a successful franchise, but it originated on the PlayStation, and then went multi-platform, to see what little profits it could reap from Nintendo fans, people who like mature games, but aren't interested in getting another console.

You see, I'm looking at it from a marketing perspective; there just aren't enough mature fans in Nintendo's fan base to support mature titles on their consoles.

Granted, Baroque is also multi-platform, but I don't see them reaping a whole lot of profit by releasing it on the Wii.

...unless of course, you can provide proof to the contrary.

I think that's more because they're either crap (i.e. Manhunt 2) or they have zero marketing (i.e. No More Heroes).  If Nintendo made mature games, I think they'd sell boatloads.  There is definitely a market for mature titles on Wii.  I believe they just have to be good and get a decent amount of marketing dollars backing them.

Last I heard, Suda51 said he was pleased with the sales of No More Heroes worldwide.  While it didn't sell millions of copies, it also didn't have an enormous budget.  I seem to recall Capcom being surprised by how well the Wii port of RE4 sold, and Umbrella Chronicles is now over a million sold.  Last gen, Killer7's sales were higher on the Gamecube than they were on the PS2.  The audience is there and quality games are there, but in past generations there's just been *more* on the other consoles.  I think part of the reason for people thinking the way they do about it is that Nintendo themselves don't make any Mature or CERO Z rated games.  The last game they published with an M rating in the US was Eternal Darkness, right?

Yeah, NMH was Suda's best selling game ever (which isn't sayin' much, but still).

I totally agree.  I also think that Sony and Microsoft started the 'Nintendo are for kids' idea which became a self-fulfilling prophecy for 3rd parties that publish mature content.  But Nintendo was at fault for this as well... launching a purple box which didn't see any real mature content to woo older gamers until the following March (RE remake).  They weren't very aggressive in trying to attract gamers our age.

Yup, and it was a good move.  Apparently, many 3rd parties feel that mature content won't sell on Wii, so Ninty needs to step up and back games that other publishers are scared to touch.  They can start with this.

Actually, aren't Nintendo themselves publishing the Grasshopper-developed Fatal Frame 4?  I totally forgot about that one until I was reading your post.  Hopefully that will help things!

^ You're right!  Totally forgot about that one...

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Geist was published by Nintendo for the NGC in 2004.  I don't know if that's the most recent M rated game it's published, but it is more recent than Eternal Darkness.

@ McCall:

I gave Longneck a heartseed, went into the Tower and then died.  After giving him a heartseed, am I supposed to make it to the bottom and kill "God"?  I'm having trouble progressing the story after this.

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"Rise From Your Grave!"

Started playing this last night and I must say I'm delightfully surprised!  I must have had a scowled look on my face for the entire hour and a half that I put into it, only because I was still trying to figure out the insanely over-your-head plot, and whether or not I was playing the game correctly. 

Great stuff, though.  It's best played at night (after the little one has gone to sleep) and the soundtrack blends flawlessly with the game.  Thanks for the recommendation McCall.  I was eyeing it because I *heart* Atlus, and they've come through again. 

I love the mature plot, and the mute protagonist.  Using parasites to appraise items and buff yourself?  Excellent.  Gritty atmosphere and odd enemies - also awesome. 

Unfortunately, I died on the first dungeon, so I think I missed some of the plot, but I"m at -1500 on my second way through and I'm playing a TON better than the first part.  I can't wait to see what happens next!

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