Ah yes, my fav series of all time
V and VII stand as the epitome of RPG goodness to this day... in my mind at least. I always thought it was  such an amazingly lively world with SO much to do, that even today most games can't compare. Also, in Ultima VII you did meet some woman with whom you got so far as kissing, but that's it. Perhaps she was meant to have a greater role in future games? Anyway, thanks for reminding me of those good ol' days

And as previously mentioned, if you like Ultima, chances are you'll enjoy Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale, both are fantastic, and again you can choose to be either male or female. In fact in Baldur's Gate there is a love interest which does actually play into the epic story.

cheers,

-avatar!

I'd say she is.

My first thoughts for this were Alyx from Half-Life 2 and Jade from Beyond Good and Evil, but both of them were already mentioned.  My favorite female character of all time might be Margarete from Shadow Hearts.  I don't remember her being dressed overly sexily, but I might just be remembering incorrectly.  I seem to remember just some sort of long trenchcoat or uniform deal.  Anybody remember for sure?

Chie from Persona 4. I'll lift a quote from Play magazine:

Chie is quite possibly is one of the best characters ever to come from Atlus, Megami Tensei series or otherwise, and if she doesn't go on to become a fan favorite in the category of female RPG characters, it will be proof that there is no justice in this world. From the moment I met her, I fell in love with Chie as a character–not because the game was trying with all of its might to convince me that I liked her, as P3 struggled to do with Yukari, but because she simply works so amazingly well. She is, at her core, nothing more than your average girl, a person that you could actually bump into one day while browsing VHS tapes of kung-fu movies recorded from Chinese TV on the shelf of some poorly-lit Asian video store somewhere. Chie has no tragic flaw waiting to show itself, no dark secret past soon to surface; she is just a girl who can be strong, but is never invincible; who can be weak, but is never breakable; who can be a dork, but is never dumb.

And  here's a fun clip from the game's long intro...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSm6W3QlGVw

Start at the 6:55 mark...

Yes.

Yes, and YES.

ACTUALLY, if you've had a chance to play the game, she actually has a dark side that's revealed when she comes into contact with her Persona (all of the characters have a dark side: their Persona).

I don't like Chie; I'm annoyed by her. Her semi-genki personality reminds me of Yuffie from FFVII.

I like Yukiko. She's so dainty...but she is timid, so I wouldn't call her a "Strong" personality...unless you consider HER Persona.

...

The last "Strong" female characters that I came across who weren't over sexed were the females from Star Ocean 3: Sophia, Maria, Mirage, and Nel.

Maria's actually kind of overbearing at times, with her adherence to the mission at hand; definitely an almost unapproachable girl, from the sexual aspect.

Mirage is a martial artist; no real hang-ups, but she could still kick your ass if she wouldn't to, she's just too level-headed to do so if you don't deserve it.

Sophia's a run-of-the-mill girl, a sorceress, and she really nags Fate (the main character). Other than that, it's not like she's a barking dog that demands respect or compliance. She actually seems nice when you realize she's just looking out for you.

Nel, she's a ninja, and along the same lines as Maria, rather soldierly, at that.

You've just reminded me of another character.  Anyone remember Shyna from Silhouette Mirage?

Since it's one of my favorite games, yes.

Marina from Mischief Makers as well, since we're mentioning Treasure stuff.

*cough*

Yeah, I have played the game. It wasn't really much of a dark side. Just an aspect of her inner self/feelings she didn't want to accept. That's believable. It is refreshing that she doesn't have, like Eric Patterson wrote, a tragic past or some other complex like a certain other female protagonist in the last game. Yeah, she is genki, but moreso in a goofy, down to earth way.

Another great female character is Elika from the new Prince of Persia game. IMO, she pretty much holds the game together in terms of gameplay and narrative. The rapport that develops between the Prince and Elika feels very organic. I really began to feel for her whenever she had to save my bacon and then gently reprimanded me for worrying her.  I would have quit on the game if I was just controlling the boorish Prince.

Jay, I understand your argument. I was just saying that it happens to be incorrect in this case. I know a lot of guys get riled up over overexposed female sexuality because in secret it actually excites them and confirms their views of what a woman should be. I'm fully aware of that: I'm also saying I'm not one of them.

Maybe so, but you seem to have done a good job of filling in the blanks on your own through a very selective sampling of what I've written in the thread. I must honestly say that I find your insinuation that I view attractive women as "hookers" to be misguided, and, if I can speak frankly, also quite hurtful.

Again, you're assuming a lot. With regards to Sonia Belmont, I was thinking of her outfit actually.

I can see how it applies to male characters. But what I think created the misunderstanding in this thread is that I personally (can't speak for any of the other people that have replied) have been talking about the image of female sexuality as presented in many games, not female sexuality or female characters as such. This is also why I've put the word "whore" in quotation-marks throughout the text (forgot a few times, sorry about that) - to show that its not my word, but rather a wide-spread perception among many males that I feel many game designers play on for cynical and/or sexist reasons. Sure, when we're at this point in the argumentation, what you suggested will surface again - maybe what I'm thinking is only a reflection of my own male chauvinist attitude and something I'm totally unaware of. Personally, I think I have reasonably enough good self-knowledge to say that this isn't the case. You'll just have to trust me on this one. If you can't, there's really no argument I can make to change your mind or convince you otherwise.

Returning to Shanoa, I do think she's an example of a deliberately sexed up female character, although not the best example since its pretty minor in her case, I'd say. You're definitely right that most male characters are also sexed up to some degree, although I still maintain that its worse on the feminine side of the spectrum. In male sexuality typical of our culture, there's usually a strong sense of agency involved: men are usually presented as "doers" while women are presented as "doable" (if this terminology makes any sense). Again, that might just be because I am a man myself and a naive slave of my own sexuality. Personally though, considering the fact that there is a significant discrepancy in power between the sexes which is often expressed in popular culture, I think there is something to my view. I might, however, be wrong.

The picture I posted of Shanoa might not have been the best one to illustrate my point. How about this one:

http://castlevania.classicgaming.gamesp … 3_1280.jpg

A picture of Albus and Shanoa, a male and a female character, both obviously quite good-looking. Although I hardly think this is the best example either (how did we get stuck on Shanoa?), I think you can see the "agency"-aspect I was speaking of in typically portrayed male sexuality here. They're both what conventionally would be considered "hot", but apparently the character designer didn't see the need to make Albus scantily-clad or dress him in some unpractical outfit, whereas Shanoa looks more like she's going to a goth-style prom than fighting through 18 stages of intense action. It seems the male characters more seldom have to have revealing clothing or obvious sex-appeal. Once again, it might just be dirty old Daniel at the bottom of all this, but if you honestly see nothing slightly strange or peculiar about her portrayal in that picture, I'm going to have to roll my eyes, sorry. And yes, I know that picture isn't the best example I could make, and looking sexy "in itself" isn't something sinful or shameful, and all the rest of the disclaimers I feel I need to make here.

If you still think you see through me better than I can myself, so be it. There are no more arguments I can state on the subject, since your "you are a man and that distorts your judgment"-argument is hard to beat. Funny, aren't you a man as well? Maybe the best way to win clarity here is to ask the women in the forum instead. I wonder if they feel there is an overemphasis on female over male sexuality in the gaming industry?

Its a good point, very much lies in our perceptions. Yet I think that example is a bit off, since its more "extreme" (for lack of a better words) than most depictions of "sexy" men and women. It seems whoever decided that picture was definitely going for having some sexy meat, and I'd say both the guy and the girl are "over-sexed". My point in this thread, though, was that I think this much more often "happens" to female characters, and I just wanted to start the poll to underline that female sexuality can be expressed in many different ways than the highly selective and limited range we often see in (most) games. Most women do not look or dress like Karin in Shadow Hearts 2, but that doesn't make them not beautiful (with no disrespect to Karin, of course, I'm a huge Shadow Hearts-fan myself).

Just when it was starting to calm down around on these boards... *rolls eyes

What do you mean? I was simply replying to his post. Do you think anything in my post was out of line? I don't think I was using very strong language or anything like that. It wasn't written to start a fight, I wanted to straighten some things out since I felt a pretty serious accusation was being leveled at me. I do have a lot of respect for Jay since many years back on this forum, and my post wasn't in any way meant as an attack, I thought I wrote it in a respectful manner.

Seriously, what was wrong with it? Does any post with even the slightest argumentative slant qualify as starting a "commotion" now?

Ah, now I get it! You were referring not to the contents of my post, but to the fact that I returned after a brief absence (and consequently that the boards are not the same without me).

Well, what a compliment! Thanks, Zorbfish!

That you did, Daniel. More respectful than the post you were replying to - I apologise if the tone was hurtful. It does read a little strong and you deserve better than that. But I'm glad you came back to reply.

I think there is a gap in our perceptions because I can find nothing half-way prostitutish (it's a real word, honest) about Sonia Belmont's outfit. Not a thing. We are talking about the same character, right? http://castlevania.classicgaming.gamesp … onialg.gif  Is it the exposed shoulders? Actually I don't even remember her shoulders being exposed on the game art but if that's what it is, again, I wouldn't see that as being on the road to prostitutedom and that view would be judging and damning a serious amount of women with little to no prostitutish tendencies. And that's something I couldn't subscribe to.

And, perfectly honestly, it's the same with Shanoa. So she's got her back exposed. To me, she looks elegant. That doesn't in any way stop her being a 'doer' rather than 'doable'. And, with her kicking serious ass, the events of the game would likely side more with my view of her than yours.

Yeah, I think you're going to have to roll your eyes at me because I'm not seeing a problem there.

I'm not really seeing a "problem" with those two characters either, like I've said many times in this thread already, both of them are not very good examples of what I've been talking about. I also want to underline that I definitely do not think of a woman as "automatically" being a prostitute just because she's lightly dressed (as little as I would think the same of a lightly dressed man). That is not the point I've been trying to make, although I do admit that my original wording in regards to Sonia Belmont would very easily give that impression, and I'm sorry about that . The only thing I'm saying is that I think there's a deliberate overemphasis on sexuality in many (read: far from all) female game characters, which is a result of a certain way to view women common among some (read: far from all) men. I don't even think that's a very controversial, uncommon or stunning viewpoint, I think its very easily substantiated by even the briefest quick look around the gaming world. And from there, I got the idea for the thread.