Here's something I've been thinking about now and then. I guess what sparked this post was the following quote from SonicPanda in the "Game of the Year"-thread (as well as the Ecclesia "hooker boots" comments):

Personally, I haven't played many games this year, so I don't know if its gotten more pronounced than before, but any gamer endowed with eyesight must be aware of the fact that most female characters in games are, mildly put, over-sexed in the design department. Keeping in mind that a disproportionally large part of the gamer demographic is made up of often sexually frustrated lonely young guys, this shouldn't be surprising to anyone, the sexappeal of the female characters is one of the shrewd subliminal ways of getting more copies of a game sold.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to do an angry rant or push some feminist agenda here and I'm definitely not prude in a conservative sense, I like cute girls as much as the next guy does. But, it seems to me that sexiness too often gets blown completely out of proportion, and that it should - in theory - be possible to have female characters in games that don't necessarily have to look like models, or even just have pretty girls that aren't dressed up as complete harlots. An example: I really love the Shadow Hearts series, but one thing that irked me about it was that every major female character had to look like a whore (except Alice perhaps, but she still had that "sexy innocent nun"-thing going on). I don't know, it seemed so immature to me in some way. Does anyone know what I'm talking about? Or am I completely crazy here?

Anyway, this gave me the idea to start a kind of poll. The question being: name your favourite female game characters that aren't completely sexed up but are still compelling personalities. Lead characters would be the coolest thing of course, but I guess those are rare, so any character that isn't too minor would do. "Sexiness" is a completely subjective thing of course, and I definitely won't judge anyone's picks, so give us what you've got. But please: no Samus Aran, OK? I'm tired of hearing her mentioned in every "strong female game lead"-countdown, I think its reasonable to say that any character that strips in the credits is kinda disqualified. (I personally think Phantasy Star I's Alis Landale is a much better choice for strong early female game lead, although she did have that funny skirt... ).

My pick would have to be Heather Mason from Silent Hill 3. She's pretty ordinary-looking, but a very interesting and believable character that knows how to take care of herself. I even think that she was done a disservice by being put in SH3: the third game is second only to Origins as having the dumbest and simplest story in the series, and I would have loved to see her in a more developed plot where her character could've been more fully explored.

Funny you should indirectly mention Karin, from Shadow Hearts. Her dressware irked me, too. But she's so solidly written that it stopped bothering me.

Gwendolyn from Odin Sphere was incredible. I was gonna mention Velvet, but the truth is, she IS sexed up.

I wanna mention Ammy from Okami, too.

Miku and the Amakura twins were great in Fatal Frame, as was Rei in the third game.

Lenneth Valkyrie was so strong she almost seemed to be beyond sexuality at times.

Marona from Phantom Brave. Cute as a button and a heart as big as the world

In the Baldur's Gate saga ALL the main female characters (those that could join your party) were strong, independent, and truly had character! On the other hand, I feel that most JRPG females have the following characteristics: big boobs, cute face, bland personality. Of course there are exceptions, but that's been primarily my experience from JRPGs. Anyway, good topic, I'm sure they'll be plenty of people with plenty of different opinions.

cheers,

-avatar!

This aspect might have something to to with the female ideal in Japanese society. Traditionally, Japanese women are not supposed to be strong or independent. Similar ideals exist in the West as well, but I think we've moved further away from them.

Also, picture/videoclip links please, people! Part of the purpose of the poll is lost unless we can see what these girls look like (hehe... ).

Other great examples I thought of of female game characters who impress more with their personalities than their looks are Ulala Serizawa from Persona 2 (love this girl), and Mint from Threads of Fate. Mint might actually be the coolest character in any game ever, male or female.

Odd as it may seem coming from a person that disliked the game, Rose from The Legend of Dragoon comes to mind for this. While Dart is the main character of the game Rose was the character with the greatest amount of experience when it came to fighting and was a mentor of sorts to him despite her icy demeanor.

Since I'm playing Chrono Trigger DS right now, I'd have to definitely Lucca and Marle.  Ayla is strong as a character too, but she's slightly sexed up with her outfit...

Dude, the Fatal Frame girls literally RADIATE Lolicon, so I wouldn't include them here...

I agree with DK on Heather Mason, that was the first name that popped into my head as well, although her constant sarcasm ended up kinda ruining the atmosphere for me.

And Valkyrie Lenneth is a good example too.

And actually, the majority of the FF ladies aren't sexed up either, I think.
It's hard to sexualize the sprites from FF6 in the first place, but even when moving into 3D the female characters are not particularly sexualized with the obvious exceptions of Tifa and everyone in FFX-2.
The compelling character aspect might be something to argue over though.

Alyx Vance of Half-life fame is a prime example of how women in games can be strong, independent and even witty and actually likeable, without ever taking any clothing off or indeed showing much skin at all.
http://www.daxiongames.com/half_life/ch … s/Alyx.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XspFTQP7CU

I second Lenneth Valkyrie.

I'll suggest Kreia from KOTOR II.  It would be tricky to "sex up" an old woman, but she's a compelling character.  Atris from the same game is an interesting female character as well.

Alex from Eternal Darkness is a lead female who wasn't sexed up at all.  She's not too interesting, but she's certainly strong.

Also, you only ever saw her face in a transmission, but Delacroix from System Shock 2 was a consistent presence, as was SHODAN (easily one of the best villains in a game).

Finally, the more obvious choices for me would be Terra and Celes (FFVI).  I suppose you could argue that they're a little sexed up in terms of their wardrobe, but as characters they're not presented that way at all, and I think of them as the strongest females in the FF series.  I think Ashe and Fran (FFXII) are good female characters as well, but their wardrobes definitely have sex appeal, and people who don't like FFXII always complain about Ashe's miniskirt.

The Suikoden series has strong female characters in spades.  Chris Lightfellow from Suikoden III immediately came to mind when I read the title of this thread.  Most RPG heroes come of age and become leaders over the course of their respective games, but Chris starts the game as a celebrated warrior and knight captain.  And she's about as far from sexed up as is possible; if she isn't clad in heavy armor from neck to fingers to toes, she's sporting a modest tunic-and-pant ensemble.

See also Odessa, Lyon, Lucia, Teresa, and Lucretia.

Finding a (strong) female character from a contemporary jap game who hasn't been dressed up like a prostitute is indeed a real challenge. I can think of none. Actually the most recent passable example which comes to mind is Jill Valentine from the original Resident Evil (and the GameCube remake, as pictured here). She actually looks like a respectable human being(!), apart from the over-sized breasts... Of course, Capcom quickly fixed this and had her looking like a whore by the time the third game was released.

And you might think the situation was better in the 8 and 16-bit days, but that's partly just a result of the limited game graphics. Taking a quick look at two of the most beloved games on the SNES reveals the following. Chrono Trigger, which was previously mentioned, has characters like Lucca (alright), Marle (again passable) and Ayla (:sickjap:). And everybody's favorite FFVI has Terra (a lead character complete with prostitute stockings, a staple for years to come!).

I'm of course generalizing, but all things considered it's hard not to think that this mirrors the overall view on women in the countries in question (mainly Japan and Korea). If you look at western games you see an almost complete reversal. The only jap-ish female lead character from a western game I can think of is a centain Lara Croft from Tomb Raider. And remember what controversy this caused back in the day?

Alright, strong, intelligent and respectable female characters from western games who aren't sexed up? Some quick examples: Alyx Vance from Half-Life 2, Nico Collard from the Broken Sword series and Kate Walker from the Syberia series.

.

Joanna Dark from Perfect Dark.

I remember another game worthy of note in this topic: Vandal Hearts. Its a little-known strategy RPG by Konami from 1996 on the PS1. All the female characters looked very "normal" in that game. When I think about it, so did all the male characters, too. Actually, some of the cast were kinda ugly or at least very "plain", though I thought this helped to reinforce the gritty war-atmosphere realism of the game.

Without tit-tacular heroines, no wonder the game flopped badly financially.

In addition to the aforementioned Lucca, I submit--just off the top of my head--Sonia Belmont, the first (and only female) Belmont to take on Dracula before her game and story were sadly retconned, and Lt. Linn Kurosawa of Alien vs. Predator. But given how little it's taken for characters to be branded a "whore," I suspect both will be dismissed.

Good call! I agree she's not too interesting, but that's because for 95% of the game she's the "silent protagonist". Although she's not really silent, but basically she's there just to move the story forward, at least until the very end of the game... what an awesome game by the way

cheers,

-avatar!

What about Claire Redfield?  Both her Resident Evil 2 and Code: Veronica variations look perfectly serviceable - and, in my opinion, she's a more likeable character to boot.

Metal Gear Solid's Meryl Silverburgh is a gimme, but there are few female characters as badass, heroic, compelling and crucial to a game series than The Boss -- especially now that we know she's pretty much at the center of the whole Metal Gear story saga.

True, but there was good ol' fashion blood and violence to fall back upon.  I vaguely remember characters exploding in a fountain of gushing blood whenever they died.

I wish I still owned the game.  I remember Vandal Hearts being a vastly more enjoyable SRPG experience than Final Fantasy Tactics.  Not to veer off topic, but have you ever the sequel?  It somehow passed me by, but I recall reviews not being so hot for it back then.

One thing I should maybe add onto my commentary there is that there's nothing inherently wrong with sexy character design, until it comes to define the character. Taking Ayla from CT, for instance, certainly her fur bikini is suggestive, but the fact that she's the best asskicker in the game and one of the most adult (not in that way - more like when she's offering Marle advice on independence) stands out more to me.
Probably the worst example of a tarted-up game female is what happened to Nikki from the Pandemonium games. In the first game she appears a young kid, the kind of Peppermint Patty kid that'd fit in with the Goonies. In the second game she looks like a cross between Pam Anderson and Jessica Rabbit, and was even waiting in bed for Gex the Gecko at the end of his game. Ugh.

Other solid feminine characters not designed around lustiness:
Bow - Paper Mario
Lammy - UmJammer Lammy
Shyna Nera Shyna - Silhouette Mirage
Tron Bonne - Megaman Legends (I know, I know, ignore the codpiece)

(continued...)

In recent times two characters really come to mind.

Jade from Beyond Good and Evil and
Faith from Mirror's Edge

This definitely isn't about branding characters "whores", its about pointing out female characters that are interesting characters without having to look like "whores", if that trait becomes one of the most defining "characteristics". Like SonicPanda pointed out above, there's nothing inherently wrong with sexy characters and we're not trying to rip on beautiful people here. But if you're a gamer, you have to know that all-too often in video games, overemphasized sexiness and "whorish" looks are used as substitutes for personality in female characters. Of course being sexy and having an interesting personality/character are not mutually exclusive traits, a character can be both good-looking and intelligent/interesting at the same time (the Shadow Hearts girls for example, the Persona girls for sure). But keeping in mind the vast number of oversexed, dumb stock female characters with completely clichéd personalities, I felt it would be rewarding and interesting to point out their opposites.

As for Sonia Belmont, I personally wouldn't pick her. She is half-way to looking like a prostitute, but the main reason isn't that, its rather that she practically has no character whatsoever in the game. Which I guess in a weird kind of way is more "equal" than many other examples, because she comes off as just another mute oldschool Belmont, only with added tits. It would have been interesting to see how they'd develop her character in Resurrection, but that game got canceled.

I agree, although simple by today's SRPG standards, I enjoyed Vandal Hearts as much as almost any other game in the genre I've played. It was more complex than the likes of Shining Force, but not to the degree of most strategy games from the 32-bit era and onwards, so it was very fun and easy to just pick up and play, and the story and atmosphere was great as well. Also, the soundtrack, while hardly among the best game scores, wasn't as bad as everyone says, "Village of Testha (Drafting a Plan of Insurrection)" is one of the best RPG village themes ever.

Yeah, I played the sequel, but, like most people have said, it sucked. They changed the tone of the game, and completely messed up the battle system (which is the central part of the game).

a good recent example is kaoru from yakuza 2 :

http://i41.tinypic.com/10y14sk.png

http://i42.tinypic.com/259k58k.png

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXGxlhtNI6M

strong independent woman, not sexed up in any way and in a well written role, especially for a videogame. i was surprised to see such a believable character in a game titled yakuza. give it a try, its worth it!

i almost fell in love

The best thing about Vandal Hearts is that the mission objectives are more varied than they tend to be in most any other SRPG.  Other than that, however, I thought it was fairly standard stuff.  I played pretty far into it but it couldn't hold my interest to the end.

People complain about the combat system being "broken" because of how easy it is to bait enemies into a mistake, but I thought it was innovative and enjoyable nonetheless.  I like the second game more than the first, but I know I'm in the minority.  I also like the soundtrack more.

I don't feel that I've missed the point, but rather that I disagree with what constitutes looking like a whore. I really think it's a bit ridiculous to consider Shanoa an example of a "sexed up" female character because she wears "hooker boots," or that Jill Valentine's RE3 outfit makes her look like a whore--I think that both instances are instead a display of a very narrow point of view in play. The feeling I get from those criticisms is that if any skin is shown, they're being exploited (tell that to anyone who actually does wear such boots or tube tops). If nothing else, it seems a tad disingenuous to cast them in the same leagues as the Soul Calibur cast. I guess that in conclusion, if you really feel that RE3 Jill looks like a whore, I feel a little sorry for whoever you may be dating. But hey, if I really am the only one who played through Ecclesia without once undressing Shanoa with my eyes, I'll shut up.

You make it sound like that is an automatic detriment; that because she's female, points should be taken away, or that she should have something extra (like personality) to make up for it. Yet Simon Belmont--similarly underdeveloped, clad in leather, and with an idealized male body--doesn't get thrown in the wringer for being halfway toward looking like a prostitute. It's as if to say that being a female is in and of itself sexually provocative in nature, and I'm not sure whose fault that is, but it's certainly not solely the character designers. I, for one, have been able to view all characters mentioned as characters first, and as sexual objects second, if at all.

Then why are you attacking Jill's design? If the only thing that has changed from RE1 to RE3 is her outfit, what's the problem? It didn't substitute what you loved about her in RE1. It's the same character. While you say that sex appeal and personality aren't mutually exclusive and certainly can co-exist, you seem to have a problem with an established character showing skin). Perhaps you shouldn't judge someone based on what they're wearing (which, again, in the case of Jill, really isn't that bad to begin with).

I'm certainly not denying that the video game world--like just about any other entertainment medium you can name--is addled with women who exist primarily if not solely to be sex objects, nor do I condone it. I do feel, however, that it's a little extreme and a little misguided to go so far as to say any female character who is "sexed up" (to whatever degree) has something wrong in her design, or that it must be qualified with something else as though sexuality or sex appeal is inherently negative. To suggest that any character whose female form is completely masked is somehow a more noble design seems not only silly, but downright Puritanical. (Not to mention no one seems to be picking on the scores of impossibly buff lumberjack men whose primary characteristic is "I am dominant.")

tl;dr: Sex appeal isn't a bad thing.

Virtual Boot: my main point is that most game/character designers are male, as are most gamers. I think (and this is just my impression, you might disagree) that there is a tendency in the gaming industry to exploit female sexuality for purposes that has nothing to really do with the character in question. You bring up a good point when you compare Simon and Sonia Belmont and point out that Simon is "similarly underdeveloped, clad in leather, and with an idealized male body". But the question is, idealized for what? You cannot plausibly tell me that you believe that the designers behind Castlevania 1 had sexappeal first in mind when they designed Simon Belmont: the ideal here (as with 95% of male heroes in games back then) was clearly one of stereotypical 80s actionhero male aggressiveness and assertiveness. I don't think Simon's leather clothes or whip was an attempt to "sex him up". I do, however, believe that having Shanoa dressed up like this shows an attitude - implicit or explicit, it probably varies from case to case - to focus on female sexuality for it's own sake. If you don't agree with my assessment, I don't think there are any arguments I can really make to create a middle ground here, it boils down to how one personally perceives these things. I believe female sexuality is often exploited in video game character design, and, while male sexuality might also be exploited now and then, I don't see it as nearly as common. Males are typecasted as often as females, but not nearly as often does the male stereotyping have a clear sexual motive.

What I'm trying to get at is not "what constitutes looking like a whore", but rather an impression I have the game designers very often play on what they believe people think constitutes "looking like a whore". I believe they are very aware of this, and that they very often exploit it, and I don't believe this happens as much when they plan and design male characters. Again, this is my perception being a gamer for 20+ years and having played hundreds of games containing both male and female characters and having seen how they have been portrayed in games and artwork. I think its a reasonable impression, but you might disagree.

Sorry, but you're interpreting me completely wrong here. I'm not saying being a female "is in and of itself sexually provocative in nature". I'm saying that many of the people who design video game characters are aware of the fact that there are many male gamers out there who see women as sex objects (and probably many designers who share that view as well), and that they are using this as one of the cheap ploys in their bag of tricks to push our buttons and make us buy their games. I'm saying there's an exploitation of female sex appeal going on, and I don't see the trend being as strong in regard to male characters. I agree that its not solely on the part of the character designers, its as much on part of the gamers. But since gaming is an industry, character designers/developers often cater to what they think the fans (most of which are young males) "want to see".

I didn't attack Jill's design.

Again, I didn't say anything about Jill. You seem to be focusing on the fact that the character is still the same, and I don't think anyone's disputing that. If you want an answer to that question from me, though, I'll say that the "problem" is that Jill's RE1 -> RE3 makeover seems to me very much a case of the cheap "sexing up" we've been talking about. You can turn your question around and ask this: if Jill is the same character in the two games (as she is), why did the designers feel the need to "sex her up"? You might say that that's just a depraved perception existing only in my mind or something, but I think what we're seeing in Jill's changed design is an attempt to exploit her female appeal (probably in some weird way connected with the fact that RE3 wasn't that hot a game, but that's another question altogether). Again: I'm not talking about the sinfulness of showing skin or having a beautiful character in the game, I'm saying that I think there was an intention behind it. That is all I'm saying.

Then what are we arguing about? I agree completely with every word I just quoted. As I've said many times already, the point of the thread wasn't to dis good-looking people or start puritanical rants about the amount of skin shown, or anything like that. I also don't think sexappeal is something negative, I just think that the cynical way in which its being used in many games is irritating. I started the thread because I have a sense (which I've had for as long as I've been a gamer) that, as you say, "the video game world--like just about any other entertainment medium you can name--is addled with women who exist primarily if not solely to be sex objects". Personally, I often get tired of this, I feel it to be demeaning not only to women in general but also to me as a male, not because of any puritanical reason or because I like "undressing" game characters in my imagination, but because it really feels like the game designers who use such ploys are just assuming that I - the player - am going to be so simple and easily manipulated as to drool at and swallow every two-bit, clichéd tart their design factories throw at me. So I thought of starting a poll like this to focus on examples of female characters in games where the designers clearly avoided that temptation. Now tell me, what's wrong with that?

I was gonna say Lammy, but I initially interpreted the "strong" in the thread's subject header as strong-willed -- which, for the most part (and god love her), she ain't.

Now, Ma-san, on the other hand.....

There's nothing wrong with the poll, I just think that making a fuss that character designs tend to be oversexed isn't bringing to light something anybody didn't already know, and that "focusing on examples of female characters in games where the designers clearly avoided that temptation" is something of a fallacy, especially when you rule out a character because they're wearing something that reveals the fact that they're female. Whether anyone likes it or cares to admit to it or not, people find attractive character designs to be appealing, and about the only time anyone designs a character that isn't attract does so for comedic effect or to cast the character itself in a negative light. (It's true that male characters are less subject to this--in before "Mario," "Yangus," "Karnov," etc) It's not a sly dirty trick, it's just a fact of life.

That, and I still just cannot see how some character designs are merely "she's just a pair of tits and a vagina designed only to entice lonely men to buy our game." You're right when you say that it all boils down to personal perception, and I guess I just don't have the burden of deconstructing character designs to that degree. You think that female design is being used in many games is cynical; I happen to think that maybe you're a little too sensitive and presumptuous/accusatory regarding the matter.

I happen to think that characterizing character designers and companies as assuming that we're "so simple and easily manipulated as to drool at and swallow every two-bit, clichéd tart their design factories throw at [us]" is a slap in the face to all of the designers who take pride and care in their work. I'm certain that some individuals and perhaps some companies do indeed take this into account, but to characterize them all as being this way is truly insulting. Imagine, working hard on a creation of your own--be it a character, or a song, or a poem, or whatever--and being told that you're a creep for obviously pandering to hormones.

You're dismissing any character who was designed to look attractive as being designed so only as a slimy marketing tactic (that uncivilized gamers mindlessly lap up), and I don't think you're giving consumers or designers enough credit.

I really didn't feel like, or wish to continue, debating--I just felt we could use some shades of gray.

Not every poll/post needs to reveal some shocking new fact.

Won't comment this further, but I disagree.

You're right that characters are most often designed to be attractive, and that we are attracted to attractive things (duh), but calling stereotypical character pigeonholing "a fact of life" is taking it a bit too far, in my opinion. Attitudes and perceptions can and do change over time, as does what constitutes "attractive". The character designers do have to "follow the tide", but they also have a certain amount of freedom as to what they design, dismissing yet another increase in boob-size or something like that as "just a fact of life" is ignoring this fact.

Deconstructing things is one of my well-known weaknesses.

Yes, I do think much stereotypical casting of females in games is cynical, I think it reflects a lazy attitude of giving in to a tradition, on the whole more so in Japanese gaming culture than in Western. However - like I pointed out before - I want to underline that I'm not claiming that its some big industry conspiracy or something like that, in the majority of cases its probably very implicit. Maybe the most regrettable thing about it is that most character designers probably don't even reflect over it. I don't have many problems with a character designer who's aware and mindful of these things and who's playing on sexuality in interesting or innovative ways (if you're familiar with Maria from Silent Hill 2, maybe you'll know what I mean). What I'm objecting to is the fully automated, mass produced stock "sexuality" that I feel from a lot of character designs. But maybe you're right, maybe I'm just being too sensitive about it.

Wow, I really get the feeling that you're going to great lengths here to interpret my words in the worst possible light. I appreciate the critical attitude.

No - let's straighten this thing out once and for all - I'm not saying that every character who was designed to look attractive was being so as a slimy marketing tactic. What I'm saying is I personally believe that many, probably a majority, of female characters in video games have an overemphasis on looking good to either help sell the game or because of implicit assumptions on part of both the designers/creators and the audience of what a woman "should" look like. You've agreed that you also believe that's sometimes the case, the main difference between our positions might be that I view it more cynically. When I was saying "I thought of starting a poll like this to focus on examples of female characters in games where the designers clearly avoided that temptation", I wasn't implying that every character that happens to look good is necessarily the result of a temptation to portray them as sex objects, although I think that in a great deal of cases it happens to be true. All I was saying is let's focus, for the short duration of a poll, on the cases where we actually feel for sure that this temptation was avoided/resisted.

No problem, I think your critical comments added a lot to the discussion, thank you.

You seem to have a problem simply with the fact that she looks remotely feminine, Daniel. She in no way looks like a hooker. She looks elegant in that picture. Feminine. Just as the male CV heroes have looked manly and bulky, but that doesn't seem to have been a problem for you.

Does the problem lie not in how females are portrayed but in how you are perceiving them?

Are feminine women hookers to you?

No. All I'm suggesting is that there are many different ways to "look feminine", and that the usual presentation we get in many games is a thin selection of that. I'm not saying anything else. For the record, I think Heather from SH3 looks "remotely feminine" as well. I think there's a case to be made for the presentation behind those two characters being different, but it seems many disagree.

I have never said she looks like a hooker. Please point out the place in thread where I stated that. Please. The very first sentence I wrote in the thread was this: "Here's something I've been thinking about now and then. I guess what sparked this post was the following quote from SonicPanda in the "Game of the Year"-thread (as well as the Ecclesia "hooker boots" comments)". The "Ecclesia hooker boots" thing was a quote from posts in the "Game of the Year"-thread, I have never said that I thought she looked like a hooker. People are starting to pull words out of thin air here. All I'm saying is that I feel that there's tendency to exploit feminine looks, I'm not even saying that is really a bad thing, I'm just saying I think its there.

Give me a break. I might as well say "the problem" here lies in people misinterpreting what I write and putting words and thoughts in my mouth that aren't there.

Seriously, no. I feel I'm being very misunderstood here. This debate is steering way off course.

Not yet writing the words "Shanoa is a whore" doesn't render the point invalid. Your view seems to be emerging, beginning with "pointing out female characters that are interesting characters without having to look like "whores", if that trait becomes one of the most defining "characteristics" to branding Sonia Belmont "half-way to looking like a prostitute" for no other reason I can find than she has breasts (like many women) to saying that Shanoa's look was just "to focus on female sexuality for it's own sake".

What is odd is that you can't see how it applies to males and dismiss the sexuality of the male Belmonts. I can't think of any reason for that other than you are a man and your own perception of males and females is so different.

Check out this image -
http://membres.lycos.fr/neslp/barbarian2.jpg

What do you see?

And Silent Hill characters, though certainly great choices for this poll, kind of get around the issue I'm seeing here because the games are so different. Heather would no more fit in Shanoa's role than James would in Simon Belmont's. A beefed-up superhero is an entirely different thing and the sexuality is often heightened regardless of whether male or female.

I think it's a good poll and I apologise for continuing the derailment but I really see a strange issue of the perception of females here (and not just from you - you're just better equipped to argue your points!) where femininity=whore rather than, to use Seane's words, a respectable human being and yet masculinity isn't even acknowledged as being something that exists.

For me, that Barbarian 2 image has it all. I imagine what each of us see in that image probably reflects our own perceptions. What is right or wrong in that perception, I can't be certain.

I didn't even think of them in that light until you're post. You've ruined Fatal Frame for me, you asshole.

ah, physically-accentuated male sexuality versus physically-accentuated female sexuality.

ignoring the fact that a considerable majority of gamers (defined as "people who regularly purchase and play video games", not "anyone who plays video games") are males in the 14-30 age range, with the game designers usually being the same but plus 10-20 years....

physical sexuality, while potentially referencing nearly any part of the body, is still heavily focused on what is hidden from us, not shown. a bare, glistening male barbarian chest can get some motors revving, but it's still not as focus-inducing - or taboo - as a barely covered pair of female breasts. and I'm sure most of us can agree that female legs tend to provoke more speculation than those of males.

anyway.

the avatar from the Ultima series can be either gender from I think III or IV onward, although there's no real physical depiction of gender until the portraits in Ultima VI. Then again, practically no one in the Ultima universe is sexualized period, except the actual prostitutes and gigolos.

(this changed with Ultima VIII, which forced a male player character and had a female executioner in leather. Then Ultima IX forced the player to not be male but also a complete moron, and gave you a shallow pirate love interest)