It has nothing to do with Dais personally, although I can see why you'd think so. I was more angered by the incredibly harsh tone Dais took, which I said was completely unnecessary and brought up his history on this site to emphasize it. There's no place here for such strong and hurtful assumptions about people. I don't see why people are applauding Dais for being an indiscriminate asshole to people. If it had been anyone else, I'd be calling them on it, too. Even you, K.

People aren't applauding his being an indiscriminate asshole as much as they are applauding the point he was trying to make.

I haven't been following this conversation.
I did read Jodo's first post, and even though you might call it "strange" or "abnormal" I say so what?
As long as a post isn't racist, sexist, or demeaning in some way, why do people care? Isn't it just easier to ignore such things? Personally, I think the notion of a "jealousy particle" is cute, albeit wrong. Anyway, if people want horror, go check this out:

http://www.centipedepress.com/masters/lovecraftmwt.html

cheers,

-avatar!

I'll reiterate my notion that negative opinions are as valid and as worthy of expression as positive opinions, and if someone reacts strongly to a given statement, they shouldn't be barred from responding because what they have to say isn't "nice."

Further, I find the notion that anyone who disagrees or takes issue with something should "just ignore it"--or that only a few general themes are worthy of derision--fundamentally troubling. Or, at the risk of sounding too opinionated, wrong.

I thought that being objective about situations was the best possible decision, since it doesn't let personal feelings allow for misjudgments. Being objective is a sign of maturity, while being self-centered is a sign of puerility.

What do you see? You act as if I'm hiding something. Have you ever considered that your advices for chilling out are of no concern to me? What may relax you may not necessarily work for me. As an example, going out and getting laid does not sound like a 'good time'. One must consider the problems associated with such a thing. I could get a disease or get a woman pregnant. As an example of a real incident, I used to know the hood cleaners at my workplace. They came in once every 3 months and cleaned the hoods above the fryers and ovens. One of them had a daughter about my age and told me she likes to go out and 'have a good time' (translation - drinks alcohol). We talked a little more and he discovered I don't drink alcohol, so he clammed up. (Women typically display a look of semi-horror when they discover I don't drink. Most men can't comprehend it, either.)
  I can not tell you how many times I have been essentially ordered to go out and get laid. One woman I work with traces out a vagina on the dust covering my car, to remind me. Some people used to think I was gay, until they found out I had asked out a female co-worker. I think that relieved everyone. But I don't control my attraction to females. If a woman hijacks my mind, disables my ability to eat or sleep, then I will ask her out. That's what it takes for me to approach a woman. I must be practically near death.

It could be and it could not be, it depends on the situation. In regards to emotional matters, I would say that its often not a sign of maturity but rather a sign of avoidance, since emotions are, by definition, subjective, not objective.

I'm not trying to make you feel like a freak, and I definitely don't think you should just throw away your own outlook on life in order to "fit in" or some bullshit like that. All I'm trying to suggest is that life and the world has a lot to offer if you try to open up to it (stepping outside the "comfort zone", as Dais put it), don't categorically close the avenues of possible experience just because they seem "illogical" to you right now.

Maybe nothing of what I wrote really applies to you, I haven't even met you, so I don't know, I'm just speculating from reading your posts for a long time. If something hit home, consider it, if not, just shake it off. After all, you know yourself best.

I'm over thirty years old and I haven't even so much as kissed a girl on the lips. Top that. (And no, I'm not gay or a 500 pound blob.) Some might say that's not "normal."

Interesting thread, by the way. Not a boring read like so many others.

Bingo

I can't top that... I'm only 27.

It's not like sex magically solves things for people, it is such a temporary state, and it certainly wouldn't help Jodo resolve his underlying emotional disassociation and relationship issues.

Of course he'd rather be soaking up sci-fi scenarios of being free of human flaws and limitations, nobody likes dealing with their own deficiencies (myself included) but we're stuck with them anyways.

Deductive logic makes it a must for stuff like us to exist - as long as we consider the right premises. But considering how difficult it is to deduce 1+1=2, we won't find a series of deductions ending at "us" any tme soon, I think. And maybe we won't find the correct premises either. It's all about the feeling you get, anyway. Either something "makes sense" or it doesn't. That the primitive social world of lesser human beings doesn't make sense to Jodo, doesn't surprise me at all. 1+1=2 is a lot more easy to grasp, and so is most elementary mathematics (can't say anything about higher). Even functions with infinitly many variables are quite easy to understand, as long as they follow a kind of computational scheme.

Have you ever looked at metamath.org, Jodo? There's huge potential in such projects, as they compute the only secure knowledge we can hope to have. In the sense that the knowledge could never, in any case, be wrong. At the same time, it's a real hassle. To go through 360 pages before reaching the proof of 1+1=2 seems like a waste of time for most people.

I think that analogies between human life and physics need substantial justification, as they have nothing to do with each other unless you compound the elementary physics a lot more than we manage to do correctly right now. There is a reason why we have sciences like chemistry, biology, medicine, psychology, sociology, etc. I also consider theoretical physics interesting, though I've not the mathematical maturity to comprehend any of it. But the most interesting part of physics seems to lie in the ability to predict the course of nature, not creating world views on how we're "in reality" a huge collection of hadrons and electrons. A holder of such a world view would be a Platonist in what I consider the right sense of the word: There are some real things out there which we cannot observe or feel or touch, but they constitute the real reality. And the one who knows that reality is superior to other beings and should lead the state.

I believe that those particles aren't any more real than the table my computer sits on right now. We can argue over whether my last statement is true or not, but that's an ontological question which should be of no consequence to how we live our lives.

And that doesn't strike you as even the least bit arrogant on your parts? You're assuming a dude "needs help" because he says shit you don't agree with, essentially attempting to control his reality. In my eyes, that's being an indiscriminate asshole.

Maybe I'm missing something? Tell me what is so offensive about what Jodo posts so that I may see the light here.

I can only speak for myself here, but I don't find anything Jodo's said to be "offensive". Is finding something offensive the only reason there is to remark on something? You're totally missing the point here, Idolores, its not about agreeing or not with what Jodo is saying, its more about what his posts seem to say about him.

Like I wrote above, maybe we're totally wrong about him. Only Jodo himself really knows, all we can relate is how we percieve him. But have you considered this possibility: if, for the sake of argument, we are right about Jodo's constant need to take up detached, "objective" subjects being indicative of an underlying emotional deficieny (as he himself seems to suggest), then have you thought about your own attitude? You're encouraging him to delve deeper into that sort of nonsense for no other reason than that you find it amusing and "thought-provoking". In the worst-case scenario, you're actually helping things get worse by applauding his put-on "objective" persona for your own entertainment. One might say that that is more dishonest and damaging in the end than actually just telling him straight up what you think about him, even though it can be more hurtful in the short term (I agree though that Dais could have used a lot more tact than he did, but that's Dais for you). All of what I wrote above only applies if our assumptions are correct, of course.

Jodo: sorry for dragging this out. In the best case, we've given you food for thought, in the worst case we've just wasted your time and annoyed you like the "primitive humans" than we are. Have some patience with us.

Do you have a degree in psychology? I think only a practicing psychologist has a right to say whether someone has an underlying psychological problem. Also note that "deficiency" is not a problem. If Jodo is more emotionally detached, so what? I promise you that if we took anyone here and started grilling him/her we would find some sort of  "problem". Jodo has in no way ever indicated that he ever intends to harm or hurt anyone or anything in any way, shape, or form. Yes, I think we really should let him be. NO, I don't think that there's anything fundamentally wrong with him. Yes, I think Jodo is harmless, and sounds like an interesting character. Personally, I think Adam should close this thread since frankly it's gotten nasty...

Only psychologists can diagnose an individual according to the specific criteria set up by their institutions, but any intelligent and mindful human being can comment on another person's psychological health. The world of mind and mental health is much greater than the world of psychology.

So, the only case in which we should notice that another person has problems is if that person is ready to harm or hurt others? Don't give a rat's ass unless the guy is ready to go out and commit a school massacre or something like that, huh?

That said, I agree this thread has gone a bit too far. 'Tis the nature of internet discussions.

This, I definitely agree with. I know I have my fair share. But, like Virtual Boot pointed out, if you routinely post about episodes in your life on a public forum as Jodo does, you can't be surprised or dismayed if people form images of you from those posts and comment on you. I wasn't trying to paint Jodo out as a "bad guy", and certainly harboured no ill will towards him. Hopefully, he'll derive some sort of insight into himself of the kind that you can only get from hearing other people's perceptions of you.

I do have a feeling that Jodo is inside an emotional bubble which probably will burst someday. Doing something to Jodo, but in mean while, let's just enjoy or ignore his posts. Even if it would be interesting to have talks like this over a pint/wine/water/orwhateveryoumightenjoy.

And people are odd and quirky, but still even if I think Jodo might have some problems or not, I find it good that he can even talk about stuff he's talking about. Not all people are capable of that.

i'd suggest this is turning into the fricking VIEW or something, but then you'd all be arguing over who gets to be Whoopi...

I second the motion, this is getting pointless.

That's what I call 'objectivity', the treatment of myself as a separate entity. The lack of objectivity is what I suspect sends people to prison. I'm often shocked to read about certain criminals, to find out how similar I am to them. But I'm also similar to many writers and scientists (especially Ettore Majorana).

When I was in fifth grade, my teacher said you shouldn't bottle up emotions (he explained it could cause violence). I couldn't conceive of the importance of that at age 10, but my unconscious decided to save that advice and act on it. Plus, I spend much of my time reading about science and how important it is to remain objective. So I figured, "Why not objectively look at myself?" Because of my objective investigations (which resulted in a near 100 page paper), I have a pretty good understanding of my problems. I think everyone should try to self-investigate. (Another impetus for self-investigation came from a Robert Heinlein novel. The protagonist ended up in Hell and the Devil made him write hundreds of pages about himself. I found that impressive. Think of it this way - self-investigation improves the brain as lifting weights improves the body.)

I'm not sure you can really be truly objective about yourself. I don't mean just you, Jodo, I mean any of us. We can try and it's probably a good idea at times - I've noticed many of us (certainly true for me) can give others great advice about what they should or shouldn't do and yet don't actually seem to give that same advice to themselves, like they could never think of it when they're that close. But real objectivity about ourselves? I'm not sure it's possible.

And, if it is, it would seem to require such a level of detachment that I'd be worried about whether it was actually healthy in any way.

Humor break!  A photo of Jodo in the park...
http://twitpic.com/1gief0

Really? I thought he'd rather cosplay as Dr. Manhattan...

Cosplaying in a public place, and not a convention, and playing some sort of instrument, kind of IS a Jodo-like quirkiness, though, no?

Srsly, is that RLY Jodo?

I've mostly been ignoring this particular thread since it has pretty much no relation to VGM or any of the other topics people concentrate on at this site.  It seemed obvious from early on that it was eventually going to get nasty, as threads of this sort usually do.

If the - erm... discussion - were derailing a different topic it'd be a different matter, but as this is the Open Topic forum and the people posting seem to be willing participants I don't see a need to intervene, despite not being particularly happy about what's developed.

True, but it hasn't gotten FREAK NASTY!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHBwDYyy … xt_from=ML

. . . I feel so nerdy for knowing what that guy is cosplaying as . . . .

Gundam something-or-other?

No, that's a scopedog from Armored Trooper VOTOMS.

I should point out an interesting similarity between the people I run into offline and online. Eventually, in any given group, I am referred to as a 'robot'. In person, the notion of me having 'problems' would be completely invisible to you, but the robotic similarity would still be salient. Some people think I don't need rest. It is amusing.

To be quite honest, I've also been referred to as a "Robot" or "Robotic." When I walk or move about, sometimes people quip, "Are you trying to do the robot?!" Either that, or people ask if I've been in the military, given the way I walk; they tell me I look like I'm marching.

It helps to just take it in good humour.

I'm definitely more lively when I'm typing on these boards, but that's kind of helped me to become more amiable IRL.