http://news.yahoo.com/s/detroitnws/detroitnws_ts2880

What's next? Outlawing using your phone while driving? Your MP3 player? The radio? Having a phone/MP3 player in the car with you? Driving at all? Living?

I don't text while driving, and I make a point not to take phone calls while driving either, but there comes a point, after they make so many damn laws when they might as well outlaw your right to live, because otherwise, you're just paying them not to throw you in a cage...

I respect law and order and all, but after awhile, such superfluous laws are enacted; you can't cure humanity from incompetence by using legislation.

(Bern definitely isn't a fan of cops).

People need to learn to take responsibility from themselves, and LEARN sense if they don't have it, and you can't teach people by using the law; law is there to PUNISH you, not prevent you from doing bad or irresponsible things.

All else equal, people are either going to be good boys and girls because they want to, or they're going to be irresponsible because they don't give a shit, and no one's going to make them give a shit.

If you don't think someone's responsible enough to handle driving in the first place, you probably shouldn't even give them a license to begin with...drivers' education in this country is a joke, and that's what needs to be improved: Stricter requirements in order to earn your license: That's what'll keep incompetent, or otherwise overly aggressive dumb shits off the road (God knows I've almost been forced off the road by some asshmuck and his pick up truck or SUV or mini-van more than once, and sometimes it WAS because they were talking on their phone).

I unfortunately have to agree with you here. You think the penalties for drunk driving would deter more people but you still end up with people that end up with three DUIs. Really, what the...

if you fine the piss out of them enough times, it will eventually sink in.

most accidents are caused by teens cause they still suck at driving and think they're invincible.
most 24/7 texting is done by teens cause everything is so uberimpoertant to them that they cant wait till they get to a red light.
any law passed that helps keep those two factors from compounding is a good one.
and they should tack on a felony charge for dancing while driving.

a state issued driver's license gives you driving PRIVILEGES, not driving rights.
part of those privileges are contingent upon one being able to competently demonstrate that they can pay the f--- attention to what they're doing.
therefore it is within the boundaries of the state to set whatever restrictions necessary in the interest of public safety.

Here Bern, this texting-while-driving video is for you:
http://www.oprah.com/oprahshow/Watch-th … sion-Video

I don't know Bern, if you want to talk about authoritive bodies encroaching on our civil rights and liberties I think there are other, more important areas that deserve everyone's attention - like the federal government’s interest in the internet and things like the fairness doctrine. Like George Carlin says: "Even if you read the news badly you know the list [of our rights] gets shorter and shorter."

Actually, his whole rant on "rights" in his final HBO special (It's Bad for Ya) is pretty powerful and pretty much true.

Ha ha ha! Alas, I have seen this I think the real issue underlying all these bad driving behaviors is the widespread proliferation of boring cars with automatic transmissions. Unless you're missing a leg, you should have to drive stick so as to keep all of your extremities occupied.

I'm all for giving tickets to people who text while driving a moving car. There are just too many people out there that can't drive and chew gum at the same time, much less drive and text. For red lights and stuff, yeah, it would be pointless to penalize them, but never a moving car.

I don't know, man. Being stalled at a red light because the dumb bitch in front of me was too busy texting to realize it had turned green makes me want to drag them to the side of the road and shoot them in the mouth.

Uh, isn't that already against the law?

Don't know about the US, but I'm pretty sure using your phone while driving will get you fined in a lot of other countries, unless it's hands-free.

It varies from state to state here in 'murca.

Nice.

A statement like that makes it look a lot like you have more issues to deal with than that person texting at a red light.

That may have been a bit "out there" but really, who hasn't felt that way about another driver - male or female.

Nah, I agree with Idolores here (figuratively, anyway). I mean, I'm gonna honk at someone in that situation and if they get mad about it...We might have words. Maybe more.

And I've never been shy about saying if someone causes me or a friend or family member a horrific, life-altering accident because they were texting while driving, they're getting their head slammed into the pavement. HARD! And repeatedly. I feel the same way about people drinking and driving or having sex while driving or doing whatever while driving.

That can't have been the worst thing I've ever said in jest on these boards, can it?

Cake? I love cake.

Poundcake. Everybody Wants Some.

Yeah, I can sympathize with that...hell, empathize, really.

Okay, okay, yes, I can agree there, too...

You've all raised valid points, which many I agree with, however...

...the aire that I'm getting from many of you is that "This law doesn't apply to me, so I'm not going to worry about it."

Especially, the law doesn't apply to just teenagers.

Me, I'm worried about getting pulled over to the side of the road and ticketed, just because I'm switching a track on my MP3 player just for a second while I'm driving.

Now, you might say, just don't do it in front of a cop, but you know how they just hide wherever they can...

Or, you might say that I ought to just pull off to the side of road whenever I want to fiddle around with my MP3 player, but that's just the thing - I'd probably be pulling off the road every two seconds for some reason or other! Why should I have to pull over to the side of the road to do it? It only takes 2 seconds! Not a whole lot of effort just to push the "Skip" button on my player, and be on my merry way, y'know? Ever pulled over to the side of the road, only to find out that's IMPOSSIBLE to merge with traffic again? I have!

Nobody thinks that the law is going to catch them, because they don't believe they're doing anything wrong, UNTIL the law finds some reason to catch them, anyway (Think Minority Report; of course, that movie was probably bred more out of how Tom Cruise is paranoid about being persecuted against for being Scienceleolologist - at least, that's the way I'll always interpret it anyway, but that's besides the point).

I mean, really, if we're all worried about getting into accidents because most people are lousy drivers, why hasn't auto-pilot been perfected in vehicles yet? (Think of iRobot, and how it's practically illegal to pilot your car manually). Computers and machines have the capacity to error, just as much as they people who created and programmed them!

Or how about public transportation? Or why hasn't the only mode of transportation become public transportation, and the only people who are allowed to drive, are professional drivers / chaffeurs, like taxi-cab drivers, train drivers, or airplane pilots? Still, human drivers and pilots!

Since we like having something else think for us, why not a device that blocks incoming and outgoing transmissions via texting or cellphone while your engine's switched on?

Hell, if we're all worried about drunk drivers, why not have breathlyzers installed in ALL vehicles? I mean, since we all don't trust each other? "Oh, not me! I'm not an alcoholic!" You don't have to be an alcoholic to get your BAC into levels of impairment. All it takes is once, and either you're boned, someone else is boned, or everyone's BONED. And in this instance I'm talking about, BONED means TRAFFIC ACCIDENT.

How much science-fiction do you need to watch about how utopianism fails, before you can actually be convinced that it's true? When such utopianism is demonstrated to fail IN REALITY?

There just isn't a perfect cure-all for this kind of issue!

As far as I'm concerned, what it all really comes down to, is the police / government trying to figure out new ways and new things that they can charge people for!

But when the government's always complaining about Federal budget deficits, you have to ask yourself, where the hell does all that money go?! Between everything we pay for taxes, and then everything that law breakers pay in fines, where the hell does all that money go?! They piss it all away!

1)Not sure why you're getting that vibe. From reading the comments I didn't get that at all.

2)Well, cops are doing their job which is to enforce the law. If the law says do not use a cell-phone while driving then you shouldn't use a cell-phone while driving. If you break the law, you won't get penalized unless you're caught, but that's the truth for any law. So, I wouldn't say "just don't do it in front of a cop" I would say just don't do it period!

3)Umm, not sure what you're trying to say here. However, it is true that many people think they can get away with whatever they want UNTIL they are caught. Sadly, that often occurs at other people's expense (such as when people get seriously hurt or killed because someone is texting).

Well, I personally am all in favor of this law. I think texting and driving is as bad as drinking and driving (which is what all studies show). I think the importance of such laws is telling people "don't text and drive"! Without the law, people are apt to think that texting and driving is OK.  Now there is a law that allows the police to try and help prevent texting before accidents occur. And when accidents do occur, the law allows for prosecution.

cheers,

-avatar!

Okay, let's put it this way...If you can adjust your mp3 player without taking your eyes off the road (like you would a radio), no problem. But most people have to look at the keyboard and the screen of their phone to text. If you take your eyes off the road and/or your hands off the wheel and make yourself a dangerous obstacle to everyone else on the road, you deserve a ticket. Zero sympathy here for people if they were to seriously enforce this.

I don't know, when it comes to laws in general I don't tempt fate... I follow the old rule "if I do it, I'll be the one that gets caught"

As for fiddling with my mp3 player, anymore I try and have my music arranged to the point where I like everything that comes up to bat - especially if it is on random. I've been really hacking at my music library lately to make it more "car-friendly"

Man, you can NOT mix your Sam and Dave. I call foul.

Incidentally, there appears to be a more serious scourge to safe driving than texting.

EXACTLY.  This isn't some sort of law designed to prevent someone from having freedom in their own vehicle or whatever - it's an attempt at a preventative measure so that others don't get hurt or killed.  Considering how many people I've seen on the road driving completely incompetently because they're messing around with a phone or other electronic device, I'm all for it.

Yes, texting and phoning while driving can be distracting, and yes, I've almost been forced completely off the road because some asshmuck is trying to merge in my lane right on top of me, because they're distracted either with their phone or texting; I don't think that stuff ought to be done while you're driving, but outlawing it is only going to make matters worse!

Fact is, you're all afraid about getting involved in an accident on account of someone else's negligence; your motivation for this law is FEAR-BASED, and when a decision is made based on fear, something bad always ends up going down as a result.

When someone tries to force me out of my lane, WHAT DO I DO?
I either slow down, speed up, or move into an adjacent lane, in order to avoid an accident! I take it upon myself to avoid the accident!

But I'd have to be ludicrous to think that person would listen to me, if I shouted out my window at them, "Hey, stupid head! Get off your phone and DRIVE!"

See what I'm saying? You can't take responsibility for other people, not least of which by enacting law; you can only watch your own back.

...

Having more laws, or more things illegal just means more things that a person can be charged of, or more importantly, things that a person can be falsely or wrongfully charged of.

If a cop wants to pull you over, and say you were texting, or whatever else...weaving in-and-out-of your lane, rolling through a stop sign or whatever else they want to say even though you didn't do them, they CAN! They can accuse you of whatever they want without actual evidence!

Who's testimony do you think the judge is going to believe, even if you try to challenge the ticket in court? The cop!

It's hard to prove when cops are just harassing you, but it happens!

...

umm,, phone service providers can provide text or call records to police...

Exactly. If you caused an accident at 6:30 pm while on the road, and at 6:29:27 you sent a message, then there's no circumstantial evidence, it's all clear and cut! That of course is the first thing police will do, they will acquire your phone record and see what calls/messages were sent and received. Also, I don't know why you (Bernhardt) believe that a judge or jury would believe a cop more than someone else? When I was in jury duty back in Boston, one of the questions they asked all potential jurors was "do you trust a police officer's testimony more than that of another person?" If you said yes, you were excused from jury duty.

Yes, but you're assuming that the cops are going to be honest...

Besides, there's a difference between throwing The Book at someone because they indoubtedly caused a traffic accident because they were distracted from putzing around on their phone,

versus

thinking that someone is indoubtedly GOING TO CAUSE a traffic accident.

You're trying to punish a person BEFORE committing the crime, which is where my reference to Minority Report came in.

Your attitude is "As far as I can tell, you're GOING to commit a crime, so I'm gonna pre-empt that by arresting you before you do!"

My views have been developed from my own experience of cops abusing their authorities, or witnessing other people, namely friends, getting shafted by them.

I'm gonna leave it at that.

If you all think that a law against texting with a nominal fine associated to it is going to do anything to stop texting I've got a bridge I can sell you...

That basically describes INSURANCE, rather than laws, so are you outraged that insurance companies exist?

Outraged that they exist? Nope. Outraged that their services are legally compulsory? You betcha.

No.

No kidding. People already pay their service providers whatever they do just so they can send each other inane messages; a $100 fine here and there for doing it even what it's a bad idea isn't going to stop them.

...

People need to be taught responsibility in general, rather than giving the message that "Texting is bad, m'kay?" A lot of PSA ads put texting in the same light as alcoholism, but texting but itself doesn't get people killed.

Everyone's really missing the point, and that's why this's a law that people are still going to break: Because texting by itself isn't bad, and the point is not made clear as to why it shouldn't be done while driving.

Quite frankly, you can still be driving, and not doing anything else that would distract you from it, and you can still be irresponsible about driving and still get people killed.

Distraction? Requires both hands and eyes? Weighs public safety against social benefits, which is never a good tradeoff? It will make a lot of REALLY stupid people a lot less stupid about being stupid while they're driving? It will make a lot of people happy to see stupid people becoming less stupid about being stupid while they're driving? And frankly, if I'm the government and I need money, I would have done this 3 weeks ago Thursday to generate income. What's the issue?

BTW, I feel the same way about people who TALK on cell phones while driving as well.

Well, yeah, people like you, me, and everyone else here have the common sense to make those conclusions, but it's not like they say that in the PSAs, because, let's face it, PSAs are for people who haven't the sense to know better.

It's one thing to say to people "DON'T TEXT WHILE DRIVING!" and another things to say, "Don't text while driving, and here's why..." Because without reason, it's just another arbitrary law made for an arbitrary reason.

Well, if I haven't made my point up until now, I don't think I'm going to be able to, so I'd better just leave this be.

All I got left to say is, I don't putz around with my cellphone while I'm driving, and I don't think anyone else should either, but I don't think a law needs to be made against it; people ought to learn out of their own courtesy and decency for each other not to do it themselves. Oh well, in a perfect world, right? Well, don't answer that. This discussion keeps going on in circles...

Haha, so we should just let people do whatever the hell they want because we're not allowed to be afraid they might hurt someone!?

I think you'll find most laws that tell people not to do something are made out of "fear" (I'd call it "common sense" personally) that those people might hurt someone through their stupidity.
Do you disagree with making it illegal to ignore traffic lights? Cause I can assure you that that is illegal because "someone else's negligence" might cause an accident.

These laws are made to reduce risk of accidents. If you want to describe that as "fear", well, I guess it's not completely incorrect, but to say that the law is bad because of it is just ridiculous.
Laws that are made to protect people are based on the "fear" (fact) that other people will hurt them either by accident or by volition. You can't possibly discard those laws because it is "bad" to base them on "fear", because there'd be NO PROTECTIVE LAWS LEFT.

Okay, fear's the wrong word to use. Try paranoia.

Paranoia IS fear, with the added nuance of you thinking this is somehow baseless or irrational.
On a tangent, I'd like to know what DOES constitute a good reason to base laws on in your opinion.

When you text, you need your hands and eyes on the phone, which means they aren't on the road, which means you are being a hazard to everyone else. Period.

I don't see what is the problem here, Bern.
Do you really believe they are invading your rights to freedom with this law?
They are trying to prevent accidents from happening.
Is your "right to text in your car" more important than someone else's life?
Or do you think this is all a big government conspiracy to prevent you from communicating with people?