http://www.gmronline.com/info.asp?CatNu … EX-10076~7

hooray!

Ramza

+DVD included? I hope it stays in a slimline case anyway...

-Joshua

When is Sekito going to get to do his own thing again?

He's working on Dawn of Mana (compositions and arrangements) which is set to come out some time.

...w-w-WHAT?!?
Where did you hear this?

I thought Ito was doing SD4...

Ito is working on SD4 with Sekito. Exactly the same setup as Romancing SaGa Minstrel Song. I reported it on Ito's webpage for reference.

You mean, when do we hear more stuff in the vein of All Star Pro-Wrestling II? Because that's what I want. NOW.

I'll try to have a complete recording done the day the game hits the shelves/whatever.
We'll see.

I'm very happy to see an OST release for this though.    FF3 is probably my favorite FF NES soundtrack... maybe my favorite ever.

It's rather annoying how all the popular composers (Ito, Uematsu, and sadly, lately anyway, Shimomura) now get the glory by hiding behind the arrangements of composers much more deserving of the spotlight, like Sekito.

(/end hopefully-not-imflamatory rant)

When did that happen?

Shimomura only arranged some Disney music (and some FF4 music for Mario RPG) as far as I know, and I haven't heard Uematsu arrangeing anything belonging to anyone else so far, but I haven't heard everything he's done.
He seems to be writing Main Theme's for random games mostly lately.
To say that they're getting the glory for other people's work seems rather exaggerated, especially since Shimomura's Disney arrangements are easily the least interesting of her work.

Now Tommy Tallarico on the other hand.....

Amazingu, I THINK what Hamandsushi is saying is that the original composers of tracks are getting too much credit when someone else comes along and arranges their work?  I'm not 100% sure on that, because if that's the case I have no idea why Shimomura is thrown in there (unless it's a reference to Front Mission First, which hardly seems popular enough to put her in this category).  If that's not the case, I have no clue what that post was in reference to.

Kaoru Wada arranged a few of Shimomura's tracks for Kingdom Hearts I and II. Can't say that qualifies Shimomura as hiding behind his arrangements, though. I agree arrangers aren't given enough credit for their work most of the time, but that's just the way soundtracks are marketed, I guess.

Yeah, it was only eight tracks or so in KH2.  But I'd say that counts, considering they were the only good ones...

And I think it's a bigger issue than just marketing.  Kenji Ito hasn't learned how to orchestrate beyond the SNES sound chip.  But The Fans don't want to see him go.  So better composers have to stay in the shadows.

Or, rather, because of the marketing, people equate good music with the wrong people, and this gives no chance for the good composers to write original music and get some well-deserved fame.

The producers of FXII tried a middle ground, trumpeting Uematsu's theme, while admitting Sakimoto wrote almost all of the score, but The Fans weren't fooled, so we're back to square one.

But wouldn't you say that ultimately a soundtrack is judged as a whole? Even if there are a few really great arranged tracks in a game, if the rest of the music is mediocre people will complain. This is even more so when you consider that most arranged orchestrated tracks are only used in cutscenes, while the rest of the music is looped thoughout the game and thus gets the most playtime. A composer wouldn't be able to survive on a good reputation alone.

In Uematsu's case, I believe the problem is not that he's composing bad music, but that he is hardly composing any (new) music at all. There's a bunch of joint efforts with the Black Mages which he ends up getting the most credit for in the media, and I guess you could call that unfair, but at least the original tracks were written by him. And pretty much everyone knows Sakimoto took main composing duties for FFXII (especially since his style's a dead giveaway).

As for Kenji Ito, I suppose his fanbase is largely in Japan, while he is (somewhat?) unpopular abroad, but it'd be hard to argue that all that's keeping him in the business is the support he gets from members Square's sound team, whose job it is to make his mediocre tunes sound great so his fans can continue to sing praise of him. Tastes differ, 'is all.

Shimomura's soundtrack for KH2 got mixed reactions, partly over the inferior sound quality, but I don't see anyone saying she did great only because of the eight or something arranged tracks that were added to the score. It takes more that 8 good tracks out of 89 to satisfy even hardcore fans.

Also, I find it hard to believe composers like Sekito are being forced to continue to arrange other's works. If they really were to have the responsiblility of making other less talented composers (who were hired by Square in the first place) sound good, they would have no problem getting their own time in the spotlight when asked for. Maybe they just like arranging stuff, aside from composing.

His non-Square related work on Culdcept 2 would probably sing a different tune.

If you're of the opinion that sound quality is the same thing as quality competition, maybe.  Past the synth, I find KH2's ost to be better overall than the first game's, I think. 

Talking about orchestration is a slippery slope, too... just because someone modifies an original work to be performed live doesn't give them ownership of the music, necessarily.  Would you say, then, that when translating a novel to a different language it is the translator who should be lauded because the original writer is overrated and takes too much credit?  Does Dostoevsky get all of the "glory" for something like Crime and Punishment by hiding behind translators who are "much more deserving of the spotlight?"

I with you on this one.  KH2's composition is definitely better than KH1's.  It's such a pity the quality is so poor, though.  They should have upped it for the OST like they did with FFXII.

"Does Dostoevsky get all of the "glory" for something like Crime and Punishment by hiding behind translators who are "much more deserving of the spotlight?"

That is just about the most ridiculous straw-man argument I've ever seen.  Of course I don't know Russian, but music is a universal language.  Arrangements aren't "translations" unless they significantly change genres, and I certainly wouldn't count "simplistic game music" as a genre.  Even if it was, the equivalent in the book world would be, say, from The Oddysey to Ulysses. 

Except, instead of the original being a classic epic poem, it's a first-grade narrative along the lines of "Billy went store and I kicked him!!  Then he cried!!!!  The End!!!!!"

Of course, if you don't believe that there are objective standards of taste, this is all pointless.

And while I thought KH1 had more original compositions (instead of really simplistic versions of Disney hits), I didn't think either was very good, especially compared with Legend of Mana.

As a side note, Shimomura's terrible arrangements of themes like Pirates of the Carribbean shows that arrangements do stand on their own.

I remember a heavy bashing a then new Murakami novel received in a popular literature critics show based on an English translation, which then turned out to be baseless in the German translation actually released later on. (The show broke apart over this, and Murakami's books released here are all translated by a single person directly from Japanese since.) So yea, it happens even though people like to comfort themselves that only the initial creator would be important.

Instrumentations, synth quality and mixing can make a difference like day and night for the actual compositions, especially when the listener can't/doesn't want to listen beyond the pure sound quality. E.g. bleep and blops versus orchestral arrangements to take extreme examples common to VGM...

I'm not sure if you were agreeing with me or not, but the style of KH2 is orchestral almost completely throughout.  You can't do subtle textures with crappy snyth, but you can make more than a recycled quarter-note melody (obviously an exaggeration, but you get the point).

Also, bleeps and bloops are great when they realize their limitations (See: Super Mario Brothers versus Star Fox).

You're probably replying to me, HamandSushi? Well, the statement I made was regarding arrangement in general. I honestly can't say about KH2 in praticular or most Square soundtracks for that matter, their mention of separate synth operators etc. keeps irritating me.

No, actually I don't believe that there are objective standards of taste when it comes to art.  Therefore you're right, this is pointless and I'm wasting my time trying to debate with someone who thinks personal opinion is fact.

Huh? One is NES, the other is SNES and I happen to be a fan of both...What is the reference here?

"Someone who thinks personal opinion is fact."

This isn't exactly what I meant.  An opinion is not a fact.  It can't be true or false, but it can be more plausible/cogent.  Just because I believe there are objective standards of art doesn't mean I am the standard, or that such standards aren't often (read: always) slippery and contradictory.  But there's no point in debating something if you don't think a conclusion is even remotely possible.

It's much like political theories/beliefs.

Sorry to go way off topic.

I think what he's getting at is that for both soundtracks the composers realised the limitations of the sound hardware they were working with at the time, and didn't use any compositional styles that would exeed those limits (like it would be hard to pull off Star Fox's soundtrack successfully on a NES soundchip).

Fact is, the worse you think the non-arranged part of KHII's soundtrack is, the harder it becomes to defend Shimomura gets all the glory by hiding behind Wada's arrangements. Like I said before, whose going to care about a few nice arrangements when they think the majority of the in-game music sounds like crap? In the worst case, Shimomura would only get (in your eyes misplaced) credit for those eight arranged tracks with people saying they're the only good music on the soundtrack, but that would still leave a lot of mediocre tracks to be accounted for.

Even if you believe there are objective standards of taste, you still have acknowledge that it is ultimately the buyers of either games or their soundtracks who determine whether a composer stayes in business. That means that the fact that Ito is still getting hired on a regular basis by S-E translates to there being a large audience still wanting to hear his music. Just look at how much work he's done both related and unrelated to S-E; it would be impossible for him to get this far by just relying on arrangers to make his work sound good.

You could be of the opinion that his fans have crap taste, and curse the fact that they're so large in number, but that's about it. He's not actually holding back others like Sekito from taking the spotlight, that's just the perspective of someone who dislikes his music and doesn't want others to waste their time arranging it. What's holding Sekito from getting a composing job on a high-profile title is either a result of his own choices (he'd rather arrange than compose) or the fact that there are not enough fans (potential buyers) around to justify giving him such a job. Even then, I believe S-E would give him the chance if he asked for it (they've given others such chances in the past). If not, he's free to say 'screw it' and go solo or take up another profession. Since that hasn't happened, I guess he's feeling happy where he is, whether fans of his compositions want him there or not.

Agreed...But what he said was SMB VS Star Fox, which is why I didn't get the comparison.

This entire thread kind of makes my head hurt...

To speak of FF3 DS's music, though, the video S-E recently released does have a small smattering of in-game samples -- at least, this is the first time I've ever heard the music.  So far, you can hear Crystal Cave, Crystal Room, Battle 1, Battle 2, and Fanfare.  The battle themes, in particular, are sounding quite awesome.

Video:
http://www.gamesarefun.com/news.php?newsid=6633

Wow.

Doesn't the main battle theme remind anyone else of the arrangement on FF3 Eternal Legend of Wind CD?

*twitch, twitch*
wow, I SO can't wait for this game.
Can't wait.

I'm totally cool with SE taking so long to release ANY remake/port of FF3.  They're doing it right!

Ah yes, on topic. I particularly like what I've heard of the Crystal Cave arrangement so far. On the whole I'd prefer just an upgrade of the soundtrack to polished Snes sound chip-like quality, though (I never really did get into the arrangements for the PS editions of FFI and II). I know the game now looks N64-Playstation-ish but I wouldn't mind if they paid an homage to the game's low bit origins in the music.

Angela, wasn't it you who shared that arrangement of Eternal Wind by J.M. Midi here a (long?) while ago? Doing the whole soundtrack like that would work perfect for me.

Ito actually does orchestral arrangements unlike Uematsu or Sakimoto, so I'm not sure where you're getting this.

I'm just praying they fix the random encounter rate.  It took me about 20 minutes to play the E3 demo because fights happen every 3-5 steps.

Last time I checked, both Uematsu and Sakimoto were very fluent in the art of orchestral arrangements. Beh?

^

They both use orchestrators.