It's just that the game had made it a point somewhere if I remember correctly that the planet as an entity wasn't sure if humans (Nanaki = exempt) were worth saving for all the trouble they caused.  And so the final conflict either redeemed the humans or was too little too late.  The way things work in FFVII, it would've been possible for the planet to have reabsorbed the humans into the lifestream, and the grown over Midgar seems to suggest that the planet chose against them.  It kind of ruins the hopeful appearance of Aeris as Holy is combating Meteor.  Oh well, perspective is perspective.  I felt like beyond the intentional mystery of FFVII, there were some things that didn't seem completely thoughtout, but if you didn't, that's fine too.

Gotcha.  Though it doesn't seem so archaic compared to Final Fantasy IV or even Phantasy Star IV.  It definitely feels less traditional to me.  Not in terms of the combat system or character customization, but in terms of how it sets up its world.  There's a special realism there in how the areas are interconnected.  There's something in the game design that is considerably less archaic than walking on an overworld to a cave.  The sense of immersion and detail in Earthbound goes far beyond its archaic elements.  I'm a gameplay kind of guy and I'm not going to keep coming back to something unless there's something in the game design that makes me feel unrestricted and free to enjoy myself.  Something that makes the experience a little different each time.

It's because Zane requested that PC RPGs be left out.  Probably to focus on single player experiences based on how he mentioned avoiding hack'n slash and MMO picks.

Regrettably, I don't have much experience with the old school PC RPGs.  I've been on the lookout, but those Ebay bidders are sharp when it comes to spotting those Ultima and Wizardry collections.  Someday I'll be sure to check them out.

I do know of some of the more recent and perhaps new school ones.  Baldur's Gate, Planescape Torment, Fallout, System Shock, etc.  A few of those are favorites.

Good call! I totally forgot about Baldur's Gate, and Icewind Dale, and Planescape
I didn't realize Zane requested PC RPGs be left out, so I must apologize for that. I guess I was over zealous!

cheers,

-avatar!

I figured that games like Diablo II, while still technically RPGs, are of a much different breed than Final Fantasy and Suikoden, etc. I wanted to hear people's thoughts on traditional console RPGs.

Side note about Shadow Hearts II... for those of you who went out of your way to complete Joachim's Man Festival sidequest. Did anyone else think it was pretty damn funny how they played Kenji Ito's very well-fitting homosexual piece "The Name's Grand Papillon!!" between each and every fight? I'm surprised they didn't use it during the big "finale", if you know what I mean...

I finally beat Shadow Hearts II this afternoon. After almost 50 hours of playing, I can strongly say that this has been the best RPG experience I've had since I played FFIX for the first time... and even that pales in comparison to how much fun I had with SHII. Go! Buy! Enjoy!

OK, let's add some thoughts here...

NES - Magic of Scheherazade. Chrono Trigger Beta, in a way (time travel, combo attacks in battle, etc). Much more interesting to me than NES FF, DQ, or Zelda, because really, there was a bit of all of them in there. Also, the first boss was the first thing I saw in a game that truly scared me (at the tender young age of 9), so that counts for something, too. Runner-up goes to Crystalis, even though stupid, stupid game design got me trapped with no hope of escape near the end, getting there was enjoyable enough.

SNES - Final Fantasy V. FIVE, you hear me? The other two angst-ridden drama-fests can go suck eggs. Runner-up nod goes to Chrono Trigger. It ain't deep, but really, that's part of the charm.

Haven't given Genesis RPGs a fair shake yet, though Genesis Collection should change that soon.

PSX - I don't care if it's gauche or not to say so, but FF7 is the best thing they put on this one. More than the story itself, the directorial skill on display in nearly every scene was much more responsible for the paradigm shift than the mere inception of 3D. Runner-up award goes to Breath of Fire IV, Legend of Legaia,  and Lunar:SSSC, for perfection of formula, kinetic and challenging battles, and polish of translation, respectively.

N64 - Paper Mario is the best RPG ever made. I will accept no arguments.

Dreamcast - Grandia 2 pretty much saved the series, by eschewing the treacly, vapid  characterizations of the rest of the series (and of its DC competitor, Skies of Arcadia) for a character who, refreshingly, berates that 'gee-whillikers, pie-eyed, adventures-are-FUN' shtick JRPGs insist on employing at every turn.

GBA - Mario & Luigi Superstar Saga, aka Paper Mario's class-clown little brother.

GC - Only played Paper Mario 2 so far, and while it's not as good as the first, it's still pretty good.

PS2 - Can't really say; I've got a bunch I've bought and haven't even tried yet because something else is more engaging at any given moment. FFX was good, though quite a chore to replay.

Phantasy Star IV is great, and so is II (although quite hard by today's standards), however they leave out some of the BEST RPGs!!  Namely:

Shining in the Darkness
Shining Force
Shining Force II
Landstalker

with any luck, those will appear on the virtual system or perhaps Collection #2!

cheers,

-avatar!

Really?  I thought the second one was a big improvement over the first from a gameplay standpoint.  The towns were also a lot more fleshed out.  Any particular reason you like the first so much?

Some RPG's experiences I've come to love:

Final Fantasy VI
Chrono Trigger
Brave Fencer Musashi (I know it's more action than RPG)
SaGa Frontier (I'm dead serious, racked so many hours on this)
Wild Arms
Wild Arms 2
Final Fantasy X

.

That's a great list of games, McCall, only you missed Suikoden V

.

Old School:
I am currently playing all the way through Final Fantasy VI for the first time, but even towards the end of the game, FFVI does not even come close to grabbing my attention like Phantasy Star IV did back when I bought it with its $90+ price tag. To me, PSIV had a better setting, better set of characters, better battles, and probably the better ending. With that said, I would say Phantasy Star IV or Lunar Eternal Blue.

New School:
I stopped playing video games for the most part after the original Playstation died out, so I will just say it's a four way tie between Final Fantasy VII, Wild Arms, Parasite Eve, and the original Saga Frontier.

Phantasy Star IV's ending couldn't even be considered "good" and Rune is the only memorable character in the game.

You must have bad memory, then. I can at least recall the four main characters since you're stuck with them till the end and Alys is also a memorable character. Though "memorable" is not entirely what I meant by "better".

I pretty much cut down on my gaming after the PS1 died out as well, I played a few RPGs for the PS2 but none of those experiences stuck with me like Wild Arms and SaGa Frontier do.

Oh, my God.  This reminds me of the backlog from hell that I either need to start working on or give up once and for all.  More on that in a minute.

Out of all the RPGs I've ever played, I'm going to go with using the word "favorite" in terms of games that held my interest all the way to the end.  In that singular respect, there have been three of them:

Final Fantasy IV
Panzer Dragoon Saga
Skies of Arcadia

(Minor note of Final Fantasy VII, which I got to the end of but just gave up on thanks to the final battle.  Never could quite get that wrapped up.)

But, then, there's the backlog (all games I still own and can't quite bring myself to chuck):

Parasite Eve
Brave Fencer Musashi
Star Ocean: The Second Story
Xenogears
Xenosaga, Episodes I and II
Shadow Hearts
Suikoden IV
Dark Cloud 2
Enchanted Arms
Final Fantasy X-2
Final Fantasy XII
The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker (though now I need a new 'cube or Wii for that)
Unlimited SaGa

Having typed all that out: God, that's just sad. 

It's not that I can't recall the characters.  It's that many of them were just functions except for the main four you speak of.  Chaz is alright though a bit whiny.  Your average RPG hero.  Alys is just his strict mentor without much else going for her except for that certain thing which happens.  Rune is ass to Chaz (in an entertaining way) but he actually turns out to be quite noble and he has an interesting backstory.  I found him to be the most dynamic and memorable character as a result.  Raja had a good sense of humor but he exits the story too quickly.  Otherwise there wasn't anything to Rika except that she's forced as Chaz's obligatory love interest and Wren has zero personality.  The other supporting characters have pretty much nothing to them.  Demi I believe just provides you with the landrover before joining and I can barely remember that other girl from the esper mansion who was there only to replace Raja for a short while.

What did you mean then?  I was thinking that you might've meant personality-wise.  Maybe in terms of visual design?  I could see that.

Megavolt:
Granted, even back in the 16-bit era and before, I did not play that many RPGs/SRPGs, but weren't most characters
just 'functions' in those types of games? I know I probably missed a whole lot of story by passing on some of the side-quests in FFVI, but Mog, Umaro, GoGo, Gau, Setzer, and Shadow don't have much of a reason to be involved with the struggle against the empire. The same might go for Strago and Relm, but I already forgot why they joined up to begin with.

As for what I meant by "better", it's kind of hard to put it into words, but the character selection/skills in PSIV were not as random as the one for FFVI, which kind of ruined the flow of the game for me a little. Yes, the character designs were also more pleasing to me.

Ashley Winchester:
I can't remember how many times I started, then almost immediately tossed SaGa Frontier aside before I finally decided to beat every single chapter. From the moment I was given the game to the moment I finally beat it, three years had passed. I wasn't hooked on the game until I had that one memorable battle with that giant turtle dragon boss in the Bio-Lab. The characters I had just kept learning new move after new move throughout most of that battle until it finally died. Good times.

My fav RPG games are as follows:

SNES RPGS:

Breath of Fire
Breath of Fire 2
Super Mario RPG
FE4,FE5,FE6,FE7,FE8
Chrono Trigger

PSX RPGS:

Breath of Fire 3
Breath of Fire 4
FF VIII
FF  IX

Gamecube RPGS:

Tales of Symphonia
Evolution Worlds
Skies of Arcadia
Phantasy Star Online Episode I & II
(FYI: Zelda TP is classified,as all others,a Action/adventure game.)