I played an unhealthy amount of Shadow Hearts II this weekend, and after my sixth straight hour yesterday I realized that I was near the end of the game and that I was still completely engrossed in the story and gameplay after thirty-five hours.  I did some FAQ digging and read about sidequests, I started hunting for each character's extra loot and ultimate weapons, finished collecting all the magic crests and fusions... and then it hit me that this is the most enjoyable RPG that I've played since the first Shadow Hearts, which I beat in either 2003 or 2004. I usually drop about 2-6 hours into an RPG and then just give up because either the battles suck, the story sucks, the music sucks, the characters are ripoffs of a ripoff of your typical Square main character, etc.

This got me thinking about RPGs, and how things have changed over the years and so on and so forth. There's a mental divide between the pre-PSX and post-PSX era in my mind, which is where the whole old school VS new school comes into play. What I'm curious about is what are your favorite RPGs from each era - pre and post-32 bit? I'd like to keep things to console RPGs, and not PC hack'n'slash or MMOs. A lot has changed since 1993, some for the better, some for the worse. I've found that I can't really play "classic" RPGs anymore, regardless of my fond nostalgia or intense initial interest. FFV Advance bested me after several hours, and the last time I tried to replay Chrono Cross I made it to Fossil Valley and just gave up; also, it takes something really special to get me to finish an RPG nowadays. I loved Shadow Hearts, and I beat Xenosaga Ep. 1 on mere principle alone, but that has been it since Final Fantasy X was released.

Anyway, here are my picks for best old and new style RPGs:

SNES - Final Fantasy III / VI

The penultimate classic RPG in my books, FFVI was my first real indulgence into a turn-based classic-styled RPG. I tried FFII/IV at a friend's house and played Dragon Warrior on NES when I was a kid, but FFVI was the first game I dug into on my own and allowed myself to be completely enveloped in. I remember during my second or third playthrough the battery in my cart shorted out and I lost twenty hours or so of progress, and instead of giving up I just started it over again from scratch. And I was excited to do it again and didn't mourn the loss of my data in the least.

Final Fantasy VI was a first for me on so many levels; it was the first time video game characters had depth of personality, the first time I experienced a world-shattering experience on a console (literally), the first time I really heard Uematsu's music, the first time I buried hundreds of hours into a game... just talking about it is an intense experience for me. Being able to recruit and swap out more than a dozen characters, all with their own personalities and backstories and sidequests, was mindblowing at the time, and looking back I feel that Cyan, Celes and the gang are still some of my favorite game characters ever. I eventually beat FFII/IV, but it couldn't hold a candle to what I experienced in FFVI. I'm not going to pick up FFVI Advance because the game is so pristine in my memory. I don't want to tarnish any recollections of my journey with tinny GBA sound, bogus sidequests and extra Espers. My memories of the SNES game are more than enough for me.

PS2 - Shadow Hearts II

Sure, FFVII is a great game, but it's also a flawed game. And after playing Shadow Hearts II for almost forty hours I feel like I'm seeing the flaws I wouldn't allow myself to see before in FFVII more and more, if only because SHII is so freakin' atypical. Yeah, it's a turn-based console RPG. Yeah, you recruit a party of eight characters that you can equip and swap out at will. And, yeah, you fight random battles and get cash to upgrade equipment and sell the old stuff, et cetera, et cetera. But I'll say that's where the conventional crap stops.

Yuri is the perfect anti-hero and is as atypical as you can get when compared to the angrily introspective metrosexual teenager that most RPGs put you in control of. And his supporting cast is fairly diverse as well; the German soldier woman that may not be who the game says she is, a pedophilic doll maker, a vampire wrestler that wears a masquerade ball mask, a normal wolf (a potential in-joke referencing Red XIII, perhaps), a super hot (and super dumb) mystic dancer that plays Tarot for the party in battle, the princess of the empire of Russia and a samurai that can fuse into other monsters like Yuri can. There can be some lines drawn between these characters and a more general "type" of RPG character, but it's mostly superficial and design-oriented; each character's personality and backstory is unique and enjoyable enough to separate them from your usual "spunky young magic user" and "powerful middle-aged male" stereotypes.

The Judgement Ring system works very well in the game, and once you try it it's going to be hard to go back to the primitive "Press X to attack" nonsense that other RPGs have in their main menu systems. What's good about the Ring is that it makes you feel like you're an active part of the fight and that your actions determine the strength and accuracy of your characters' attacks; you're not just sitting on the sidelines watching attack animations anymore. Add to the fact that everything is completely customizable (from the ring style and size to magic crests and attributes), the turn-based combo attacks that chain up for extra damage, and the fact that the battle system is just so damn fun and you have yourself an RPG where you're not dreading that screen-swirl when you're wandering around dungeons.

Speaking of dungeons, I'll admit that they could have been better. There are lots of winding corridors and similar looking rooms, but it's eased by the minimap in the corner that helps you find where you're going. The puzzles are challenging but never too obtrusive (sidequests barred), and the level of exploration is pretty good. The enemy designs are amazing, and rank up there with some of the best (and creepiest) RPG characters and enemies ever. There was one place in the game that actually scared me... it's a late-game sidequest that I won't ruin for those who want to play the game on their own. And the music... oh, the music. It's mainly Hirota and Mitsuda, and it's awesome. If you haven't had the chance to get the OST, you should probably do that. Now.

I have never genuinely laughed at an RPG like I've laughed at Shadow Hearts II. The story is great, and although it's quite serious it never takes itself too seriously, and seems to poke fun at the game whenever it has the chance. It's campy, but that's what makes it great. By the end of the game you really feel like it has been too short of a ride, despite the 30+ hours you'll have surely logged by then. It's a shame that this title never really got the "mainstream" reputation that it deserves, because it's an excellent RPG that should be experienced by anyone who's into this type of game, and the overall experience beats the shit out of the measly generic crap Final Fantasy X offered (OST aside).

There's a TON more to talk about, but I've already overstated here. Anyone else?

Hmm...

Master System - Phantasy Star

It's basic, linear and while not especially easy it's certainly not much of a challenge, but this holds a very special place in my heart. It was the first console RPG I played, and the first game I played that I basically sat down all day to without a thought of doing anything else. It has random encounters by the bucketload - something that I absolutely will not touch in any modern game, and even most games from the 16 and 32-bit period - but you are into and out of them so quickly that it never breaks up the flow of exploration.

I love the graphical style, the future-tech and the very unique music. Coming from the fairly simple computer games of the early-mid 80s I'd never before experienced an epic game like this (I'd played BIG games before, but none that centered so much on story and characters).

The thing is, all this would be a nostalgic footnote if it weren't for the fact that I can genuinely revisit this game even now (and I have done over the years) and find it to be a pure delight, thanks mainly to that simplicity and flowing action.

Playstation - Vagrant Story

No other contenders here. Final Fantasy VII comes the closest but even that falls far short of what I consider to be a true work of videogame art.

Take any aspect of it - the visual style and the technology pushed to its limits to evoke a stunningly detailed, beautiful world, the absolutely superb localization of a complex, unexpected and ultimately very moving story, the insane depth of the weapon and armour forging system, and the icing on the cake - a glorious soundtrack. Bung in a whole bunch of OCD-baiting sidequests and achievements and you've got a game that will grab you and barely let go.

...if you let it.

So many times I've read about people giving up on Vagrant Story because of the initial difficulty in getting to grips with the combat system. That is a crying shame, because for one - it's really not that difficult to figure out and apply, and two - they're denying themselves the experience of a true classic thanks to a minor hurdle.

Vagrant Story made me an unabashed Matsuno/Sakimoto fanboy, and while I'm not that interested in modern videogaming anymore, a return to Ivalice in Agent Riot's shoes would be the one thing to bring me back into the fold.

I totally agree with you on this one Zane.  I think that most old school RPGs ended up hurting themselves by having a mute protagonist (Chrono Trigger, Breath of Fire 1/2).  I also love the dynamic switch in the villains from FFV to FFVI.  We finally got to see a villian that wasn't simply an evil otherworldly power, Kefka is the best villain ever.

Overall FFVI is my favorite from the time period, however there are two other mentions I'd like to make:
Earthbound, which is one of the best rpgs for its humor, memorable characters and locations, and emotion.  The final battle is definitely something to remember.
And finally, I believe that The Illusion of Gaia gets criminally overlooked.  I think that the game is in all cases amazing, and it's a shame that time has overlooked it. 
Spoilers
I remember the scene where a tribal village captures the main characters.  In order to save them, the heroine's pet pig sacrifices himself.  I was pretty young when I played the game and remember being so sad that I wrote a letter to Nintendo Power asking why Hamlet had to die...
End Spoilers - I hope one day we'll get a soundtrack release.

Playstation - Final Fantasy Tactics
This is one of the best videogames ever made.  The story is intriguing, the characters are deep, and the rpg combat is the anti-hack and slash.  I've played through it two times, having completely different combat experiences, and thoroughly enjoyed the story both times.  The soundtrack by Sakimoto and Iwata was way ahead of its time.

As far as ps2 and later, I haven't really played any rpgs per say unless you want to count Okami or Shadow of the Colossus.  I am however looking forward to starting Final Fantasy XII later this week

Like me! I didn't have the patience for it. But because I wanted to hear Sakimoto's brilliant music in context, I cheated through the entire game. And somehow, it was STILL difficult.

As for my picks:

SNES: Final Fantasy VI (of course!): One of the few games I've played that kept me up for hours, trying to find out what will happen next. A perfect blend of characters, music, and story. Many people don't care for the non-linear (and more character based) second half but I think the game wouldn't be the same without it.

I have a similar nostalgic feeling for FFIV but because I've played through it so many times (on so many versions), I'm pretty tired of it. I haven't touched FFVI since the SNES version.

PSX: Final Fantasy VII: The game certainly has flaws (a crappy translation and horrifically synthy music being the biggest) but when it was first released, FFVII grabbed me and wouldn't let me go. Perhaps it was the transition from SNES to PSX, but I was amazed by the graphical prowess of the game (and the story was pretty interesting too). Of course, it didn't date well (ironically far more noticeable with FFVII than FFVI) but it's hard to shake the initial memories. None of the PSX FFs afterwards came close to matching it.

PS2: Suikoden V: Fantastic story, wonderful characters. Once I started playing it, I couldn't stop until I was finished (when I say it took a week, that's because I played hours each and every day ). I play RPGs for the stories (which is why FFXII was such a crushing bore) and Suikoden V certainly satisfied.

As far as old school favorites, I always had a soft spot in my heart for the oft-scorned Secret of Evermore. It just had a sort of "homey" (I think I made that word up just now to convey a feeling I don't know how to quite describe) feel to it, and playing it felt very personal to me. I also liked sniffing out the alchemy stuff on the map, it makes the environment seem more immersive (like the (!) spots in FFIX). And the alchemy system in general was a neat concept, if a bit cumbersome and unbalanced in execution. It's not quite as easy to level up the spells as in SoM, where MP is the only limiter. I tend to really enjoy the game up until the final dungeon, which sort of takes me out of the atmosphere I most liked about the game.

As far as new school, Final Fantasy IX is an amazing experience and my favorite FF, though I do not know if anything will ever eclipse Baten Kaitos Origins. This game just took what I liked about BK1 and refined it, making it even better. It vaulted it into a spot I don't think any other game will ever approach, though Final Fantasy IX is up there. Both games feel fleshed out and "complete," as if the director's vision was fully realized and implemented. I don't get that feeling with many games at all. Alundra is another one of those that comes to mind, and I think it's sadly overlooked as well. And here I am forgetting Xenogears, which is always a good story to experience, and the gear battles are probably unmatched in their coolness as a battle system. Well, outside of BKO.

I managed to squeak my way through Vagrant Story, not without a few moments of wanting to throw the controller at the wall. I think it was rewarding in the end, but I think the sheer amount of customization, etc. you could do sort of put me off rather than drew me in. The same happened with Planescape: Torment (edit: oops, a PC game), which was recommended as an alternative to Xenogears, but I just got so LOST in the vast seas of text and dialog trees. I felt like I was in over my head. Maybe I'll give it another shot one day.

I fully agree with this...My term for most pre-PSX RPG's are "Crash" RPG's (similar to crash-TV, where a bunch of stuff happens in a short amount of time, almost at a seemingly ridiculous pace...direct opposite from most PSX RPG's and above that really take time developing stories and whatnot).

So, my favorite "Crash" RPG's:

Final Fantasy IV and VI - IV's far simpler than many other RPG's today, but the story and characters still stick out and it did play home to many classic boss battles. VI, IMO, has yet to be surpassed on many levels (though it has on a few) and remains one of the stronger "total packages" I've seen.

Phantasy Star IV - Thank you avatar! Thank you Sega for including this on the Sega Genesis Collection...Thus far, I'm forced to say this game lives up to the hype from its' dedicated fanbase. Whether it's a "proper" answer to FFVI or CT remains to be seen, but I dig the characters, style, music and challenge level (it's hard!)

Chrono Trigger - Yeah, why not...Time travel is severely underused as a plot device and the gameplay itself is fun. Probably my most replayed game through the years (not counting New Game+).

Growlanser 2 and 3 - Two "modern" examples of Crash RPG's...There's backstory and everything, but the game wastes little time with them. The multiple endings and little variations add depth and they're just fun.

Suikoden 1 - For all of the rich backstory and happenings, this game unfolds at a ridiculous pace. And with plenty of style, I might add. I was pretty emotionally drained getting through this one the first time.

Valkyrie Profile - Technically, it's a Crash RPG...It throws a lot of stuff at you and doesn't really bother too much with story until the end (and only if you choose to get the good ending at that), so much of it is dungeon-crawling and fighting. Thus far, I have to say I much prefer it to VP2, especially with regards to meeting your characters...

And my favorite "Modern" RPG's:

Suikoden V - Hoo boy...114 hours on a game (including a replay for the "good" ending) that stresses such a large degree of storyline and character development is a rarity for me. I enjoyed the gameplay, but moreso for the battle preparation than the actual usage...It's maddeningly easy if you know what you're doing.

Suikoden II - It unfolds far more naturally than 1 did, so it's far more "modern" and believable in that sense. Great game through and through that warrants the high price tag it goes for.

Star Ocean 2 - Tri-Ace at their best...Chaotic battles, storyline that's JUST the right size and plenty of decent character development and cool designs. Bad dialogue and the last boss is a TAD unbalanced, but still a great example of a "modern" RPG. Far moreso than its' sequel...

Final Fantasy VII - I tend to prefer more character-based "modern" RPG's and the game's overemphasis on the Cloud/Sephiroth antics (and de-emphasis on everyone else, as has been the case with most "modern" FF's) didn't appeal to me a huge deal and the ending was pure BS. However, the materia system is one of the best battle systems I've seen in an RPG (something I can't say for FFVIII or X) and the pacing keeps the plot rolling along fairly balanced. Definitely worth getting a PSX for.

Special mention: La Pucelle Tactics, Disgaea and Fire Emblem (SRPG's) and Ys: Ark of Napishtim (Action-RPG)

I think old school vs. new school is more than just SNES to PSX.  I think there's a shift in art design and gameplay that signals "new school" moreso than simply the platform.  XS1 is on PS2, but I'd still consider that an old school RPG.  Likewise, FF8 is on PSX and I'd probably call that the beginnings of new school.

At any rate, I don't feel like listing every PSX and PS2 RPG and saying which ones I think are old school vs. new school, so to keep things simple, I will follow your lead and simply split RPGs from console generations 1-2 vs. RPGs from console generations 3-4.

BEST RPG OF CONSOLE GENERATIONS 1-2

Chrono Trigger (SNES)
-Also the best game ever made, but that's beside the point.  Perfect story, perfect music, perfect artistic sensibilities.

Runners-up: Final Fantasy VI (SNES), Seiken Densetsu 3 (SFC)

BEST RPG OF CONSOLE GENERATIONS 3-4

Xenogears (PSX)
-So incredibly engaging, its battle system and rushed ending are its only flaws.

Runners-up: Parasite Eve (PSX), Xenosaga Ep1 (PS2), Ys VI (PS2)

I would say (by system):

NES - Crystalis.  An action RPG that was a heck of a lot of fun, and had a storyline that was engrossing.  There was a fair amount of tragedy in the story, which was unusual for games of this era.  I still go back and play this from time to time via emulation.

SNES - Chrono Trigger.  It was a lot of fun to play it through over and over again, getting the different endings, and trying to bring all your stats to **.

TurboDuo - Cosmic Fantasy 2 had the best storyline, but Ys IV had better action.  This is a tough one.  I'm going to go with Cosmic Fantasy 2 for this one, primarily because the ending was so fraught with tension.  The only problem with this game was that there was no randomization in the damage that you did against the enemies, which always bothered me for some reason.

Dreamcast - Skies of Arcadia.  Man, I loved this game.  The exploration aspect is what made it so fun (though those floating invisible islands were severe headaches).  The ship battles were great, too, as was the ability to recruit your crew and customize them for combat.  This still ranks as my favorite RPG, actually.  Record of Lodoss War was a ton of fun, too.

PS2 - Disgaea for tactical RPGs, Shadow Hearts II for more conventional RPGs.  I never played the first Shadow Hearts, but I got hooked on Covenant thanks to this board.  And am I glad that I did.  I played it without referencing a FAQ at all (except for the battle against the Tin Lion), and managed to get everything except for a couple of the special outfits.  Granted, to do that, I had to keep backtracking all over the place, and ended up spending over 70 hours before completing it.  Strangely, backtracking never really felt tedious, because there was always something new when you went back to the old cities.  As for Disgaea, all you need to know is that I've played this game for over 400 hours.  Two and a half solid weeks of time, devoted to this game.  I don't think I spent that much time on any game before (outside of the Ultima and Bard's Tale series back when I was twelve).

Gamecube - I'm going with Twilight Princess for this one, because I'm not sure I played any other RPGs on this system.  I'm not in love with it, though.  It's OK, but I have a problem with the context-sensitive controls of the 3D Zeldas.

Amen to that. Although I dug FFVI a ton more, FFIV's bosses were pretty classic... from Rubicant to the Magus Sisters and the Mist Dragon... great stuff there. And although I liked FFVI's party diversity and the ability to swap 'em out on the fly, it was kind of comforting to play FFIV and not worry about juggling characters or jobs because the game did it for you. But I'll say, I got tired of characters "dying" and coming back to life in that game!

I actually got stuck on the Magus Sisters for several days. And there was also that dreaded CPU as well... And Zeromus, natch. Of course, I was 12.

I guess I'll join in here with one less obvious choice and one very obvious choice -

OLD SCHOOL - Soleil/Crusader of Centy, Megadrive (Genesis)

No, seriously. I know it's a total Zelda knock-off. I'm well aware of that. But it is a knock-off with so much charm, so much atmosphere and some excellent gameplay elements that I'm going to go as far as to say it beats the very game it copies hands down. Yep, better than LttP.

The world of Soleil is just such a nice place to be, even with the monsters and whatnot. The music is stunning and still impresses me. The charisma of the game is immense - with the little animal friends and the population of cute people and even cute monsters. The game is full of cliches but pulls each and every one of them with style.

Also, you can jump into fireplaces for some reason.

And it has a cameo by Sonic the Hedgehog.

POST-PS1 - Suikoden, PS1

I had a tougher time with this one, mainly because Xenogears made such an impact on me. But, after the dust has long settled on both games, Suikoden is going to get my vote and here's the main reason - at no point in Suikoden did I feel the game was getting dragged out. Not one point. In RPGs, that is a very rare thing and, unfortunately, Xenogears has some sections that just feel they were there to add length.

Suikoden flows naturally in a way few RPGs do. The story builds and twists and there's nothing particularly original about it but it all seems to work. Characters are really interesting and how it handles war subjects is, well, a little odd but in a good way. It did make me wonder at times - why am I fighting this war? And almost every time I did, the game seemed to mirror that question as if it knew exactly how I'd react to everything in advance.

Of course the highlight of Suikoden is recruiting the characters and building the castle. It's a thrill to go back after you've recruited a bunch of new people and have a look at what they're doing to the castle. I felt this was lost a little in the sequel as it started off too big, too sprawling. Which actually is the criticism I'd level at almost every element of the sequel and, to me, it highlights what worked in the original. I found the sequel more rambling. In the time I got into the meat of Suikoden 2, I could have finished the first. I wasn't even sure when I had recruited people half the time and then couldn't find them afterwards. It was just generally unfocussed. Of course it was still enjoyable but it shows me why the original worked - focus.

It's proof to me that an RPG simply doesn't have to clock in at 60 hours+. In fact, it's almost inevitable that there would be padding in a game that does. Suikoden is a padding-free RPG.

I hate that mental divide you speak of.  FFVII and other RPGs of its ilk seem to create a bias in some people when experienced in what one might consider the formative years of a person's RPG tastes.  The result is a generation of folks who are quick to criticize pre-PS1 RPGs out of fear and ignorance.  Only Chrono Trigger tends to be spared the condescending attitude for reasons that I suspect have something to do with its influence on FFVII and Xenogears.

FFVI is my old school favorite as well.  I'm not sure there's much to add beyond what's already been said, but what I will say is that I felt FFVI was evolutionary in a lot of ways.  Looking at FFV before it and FFVII after, FFVI bridged the gap between old school and new school, and that's part of what makes it special.  And I agree with Wanderer.  It wouldn't be the same without that bold plot twist and non-linear second half.

My new school pick?  Deus Ex has to be it regardless of its PC origins.  It's an amazing experience in every way.  The complex and well-told story doesn't come at the expense of engaging gameplay as tends to be the case with some other RPGs that are highly regarded for their stories.

Console picks:

NES - Dragon Quest III.  Features a nifty class system and nice music.

Genesis - Shining Force.  A simple but very effective SRPG.  A well-rounded experience that is classy all the way to end.

SNES - Final Fantasy VI.  It has already been spoken for by myself and many others.  Still has the best cast and soundtrack of any RPG as far as I'm concerned.

PS1 - Final Fantasy Tactics.  The way Matsuno is able to weave together a complex world of history and war always works for me.  FFTactics also features very compelling strategy gameplay and customization along with a sterling soundtrack.

Saturn - Grandia.  Truly the adventure of adventures.  Awesome music, awesome combat system, and a world full of charm and wonder.

N64 - Ogre Battle 64.  Great SRPG.  Using Matsuno's script it continues the amazing Ogre Battle saga.  This one combines the gameplay styles of the original game and Tactics Ogre to capture the best of both worlds.

PS2 - Breath of Fire V.  An atmospheric experience featuring a strategic combat system, a great Sakimoto soundtrack, and lots of replay value.

Me too.  FFIV is classic, but I can't believe that some of its fans would go as far as to defend that stuff.  It was just kind of silly the way they'd "kill" a character to make room for another.  When everybody magically popped up to face the Giant of Babil, it was a bit hokey.

I don't have anything new to add, I just want to express my undying love for Shadow Hearts 2 as well.
I went in expecting a decent sequel to a decent game, I came out having played one of the funniest, most touching, most rewarding and most surprising games ever.

Personally, I think that works both ways.  There are legions of old school fanatics out there who see FFVII as a drastic change for the genre that ruined everything.  I've never understood this, since FF6 and FF7 might as well be the same game, as far as game design is concerned.  The ONLY difference I can see is that the graphics got better (or worse, depending on your view of the PS1's sub-par 3D abilities) and it blew open the doors to make RPGs more mainstream.  I know of a lot of fans of a lot of genres of music, movies, etc. that immediately have to hate that which brings their exclusive hobby into the limelight.  That's what FF7 seems like to me.

Design-wise, I don't think RPGs changed much at all from the 16 bit generation until the present.  Frankly, the majority of changes are something that I personally welcome and are often the things most criticized when newer games fall back on the old ways.  Lots of time leveling up?  Frequent random battles?

That said, let's go through my console picks:

Turbo Duo - Ys Book I and II.  While I was at first leery about the whole running into enemies instead of pushing a button to attack, I came to appreciate the amount of strategy worked into such a simple system.  More of a twitch game than a traditional RPG, Ys is a hell of a ride, and still has one of the best soundtracks ever.  Honorable mention goes to the more traditional Cosmic Fantasy 2, mostly for its shockingly sad ending.

SNES - Lufia II.  Great story, great twist, lots of fun puzzles in the dungeons.  The Wild Arms games seem to want to be the spiritual successors to Lufia, but none that I've played have ever pulled it off as well.  The uniqueness of Lufia II and the boldness of the plot elevate it above other classics like FF6 and Chrono Trigger for me.

Saturn - Panzer Dragoon Saga.  Tied for the most money I've ever payed for a single game, it was worth every penny.  Totally unique setting along with one of the coolest battle systems ever makes this a short but sweet journey into a fantasy world.  I am SO sad Sega hasn't rereleased this anywhere so more people can appreciate the sheer brilliance of the game.

Playstation - Final Fantasy VII.  Probably the only Square game to make my list, despite me generally liking them.  Nostalgia probably does play a big factor in me loving this game, but I still think the story and battle system stand up today even if the graphics don't.

N64 - Paper Mario.  Totally not serious, but totally fun.  In fact, "fun" is really the only word that needs to be written for the description of this game.  While I can't rank most of the Mario RPGs quite so high, the lack of anything else on the N64 allows me to put this one as best.  And it's a heck of a great game for being the only worthwhile RPG on the system.

Dreamcast - Skies of Arcadia.  I love airships, I love exploring game worlds for secrets, and I love battle systems that allow you to actually USE magic instead of stockpiling it for bosses.  Skies is my favorite RPG of all time, made even better on the Gamecube (except the music).

Playstation 2 - Shadow Hearts II.  Ditto to what everyone else has said.  I really enjoyed the first Shadow Hearts as a filler game in the huge drought after FFX for the PS2, and then its sequel just totally blew me away.  Highest recommendation.  Easily one of my top five for any system, though I think the story is helped greatly if you've played the first.

Gamecube - Baten Kaitos.  I almost wrote FFCC, but that only counts for being a spectacular multiplayer game, not as a single player one.  Baten Kaitos was another surprise for me.  I got it wanting to support 3rd parties making RPGs for the Cube, and ended up liking the card system FAR more than I anticipated.  In fact, it's one of the most fun battle systems I've encountered, and I normally hate the card thing.  Anyone who overlooks this one because they don't like card systems - don't!

I guess my tastes are pretty random, overall... but I guess eclectic tastes in types of games are part of the reason I'm interested in having so many different game systems.

FFVI and FFVII seem to have to be at odds for some people simply because each game is considered a candidate for best Final Fantasy game.  Not to mention the Nintendo vs Sony generation split.  So people who grew up with FFVII and hold it as untouchable look for faults when they go back to play FFVI.  And yes, the same could be true of someone who played FFVI first, but I've found that most FFVI fans are more informed about RPGs past and present than most FFVII fans.  Personally, I think FFVII is a solid title in its own right.  I don't necessarily like the influence it had on the genre, but I don't hold that against the game itself.

Even though FFVII runs with some ideas established in FFVI (FFVII is like a combination of FFVI and Chrono Trigger in terms of the story), there are some differences.  Probably the biggest is in the storytelling department.  FFVI has an elegant clarity to it whereas FFVII opts for a more convoluted and pretentious approach (something Xenogears did better at, though I prefer FFVII for being better in the gameplay department).  The ending of the game and Advent Children are both proof that the writers didn't quite know where they were going with the story.

I still need to play that one.  The money thing is a problem.  I forked over a lot of money for Suikoden II and didn't find it to be quite as spectacular as its fans do.  If I fork over even more money for PDS and come out feeling the same way...that wouldn't be good.  I know I could just try to sell it back, but once I have it, the collector in me will want to keep it.

As far as eclectic tastes go, I think it's safe to say that the more RPGs you play, the more you find yourself looking for something a little different.  This obviously doesn't apply to everyone in the same degree, but I've noticed that people with greater experience tend to have more varied picks.

I bought Panzer Dragoon Saga in 2005, and really didn't get on with it - almost entirely due to the random encounter element. I couldn't get past my dislike of that enough to savour the story and sold it on in less than a week. Luckily its rare status ensured that I made all my money back, so I essentially got to try it for free (so it's not that big of a gamble when you look at it that way ).

Doesn't that rule about almost every RPG?

PDS actually doesn't have fully random encounters, oddly enough. I'm not sure if it's like Parasite Eve where they are always at the same point, just 'hidden', or if they are random (or if they move around), but one thing I remember is that it's possible to clear out all the enemies.

And personally, I loved the battle system -- but thought the story was boring, and the graphics subpar even for Saturn.

-Joshua

Best of everything: Final Fantasy VI

I had dallied with a few RPGs before but FF6 is the one that made me consider myself an RPG fan (a title I sadly don't particularly care to claim any longer).  It's the first I played through from start to finish and the only one to this day I've played through without experiencing any lull or lack of motivation to continue.  In hindsight the plot may be cliched at times but the art is gorgeous for its time and the music and cast of characters are still without peer.

Best 8-bit: Phantasy Star I

I owned both Dragon Warrior and Final Fantasy for a while but Phantasy Star was the only one that truly involved me in the game... this made more impressive by the fact that I only first played it on the Master System adapter well after I'd bought my Genesis.  Unfortunately the back-up battery's failure (I've had bad luck with these) when I was over three quarters of the way through kept me from finishing this one off

Best pre-32-bit: Ys Books I & II

Showed just what cinematics and pre-recorded music could add to the experience.  (I'm hard-pressed to come up with a moment in gaming that floored me as much as the ending to Book I.)  Plus the gameplay was simple but good fun.

Best 32-bit+: Panzer Dragoon Saga

As a long-time Saturn fan I jumped all over this when it came out, and played through it again for the first time this last winter break.  Both of the first two shooters in the series featured several of the the qualities of a great RPG (story progression, an intriguing world, wonderful music) so it shouldn't be much of a surprise the series would adapt so well to RPG form.  As with most RPGs the story loses steam in the latter third as it hits you with some busywork then shifts fully into "save the world mode", but until then the involving battles, unique game world and art style, and interesting characters are about as good as it gets.  Well ahead of its time for consisting completely of spoken dialog, and the ending theme and epilogue movie are to die for.

Runner-ups: Chrono Trigger (best 16-bit graphics, music, story combo after FF6), Suikoden 1 (the massive cast of characters makes for a great gimmick the first time around), Final Fantasy VII (mostly on technical achievement)

Most wanted to play after reading this thread: Shadow Hearts II

Both of the first two Suikoden games are ones I'm glad I DIDN'T shell out the money for, and instead borrowed.  While solid RPGs, I really didn't see a whole lot terribly special out of them.  Luca Blight may well be the most overrated RPG character of all time.

As for FF7, I don't think it's fair to say the writers didn't know where they were going with the story - there's no reason that the ending COULDN'T have wrapped up everything into a nice little bow like most games do, but it feels much more like it was left ambiguous intentionally.  It's fine if that's not really your cup of tea, but I hardly think it's the writers' fault for doing something different.

Errm... yeah, like TerraEpon said, PDS doesn't actually have random battles.  I believe they are scripted.  They occur in certain places through levels and it is possible to clear an area of them (though it's been a while... I think you can return to areas and have the battles fight-able again).

The first Suikoden was merely okay but I thought the second one was fantastic (although later eclipsed by the fifth). I do agree that there's nothing special about Luca. He's a more boring Kefka (although the uneven translation probably didn't help).

Agreed. In a lot of ways, I think the story demanded that the ending be the way it was.

Old school rpg favs.....

Master System:

Golvellius
Miracle Warriors
Phantasy Star
Ys

PC Engine/TCD:

Ys I+II
Ys III
Ys IV
Dragonslayer
Dragonslayer II
Emerald Dragon
Neutopia I+II

Megadrive:

Phantasy Star II-IV
Sword Of Vermillion

Snes:

Final Fantasy IV and VI

Different is fine..."6 minutes of ominous foreboding with everyone looking on in horror, 1 minute of lifestream surrounding the giant asteroid and then...BAM! The end after a nice, long, enjoyable quest" is not fine. It's actually pretty cheap...I only half joke when I say they ran out of funding for it. That's exactly the thing that keeps me from liking FF7 as much as I should and the ending and the fact that the game does little to make the rest of the cast more important towards the end (not to mention the endless FFVII whoring over the last couple years) still annoys me. I mean, why de-emphasize something you've been building up to?

And how is Luca Blight overrated? I find that an odd statement, as I think he's one of the only villains in recent memory to actually earn the ire of people. Just take a body count: 2 entire towns sacked (1 in fairly graphic fashion...at least as graphic as one can get with sprites), 1 entire town's population fed to an evil rune, he wiped out an entire battalion of his own men and poisoned his father for good measure, plus whatever else I'm forgetting. Not exactly Kefka blowing up the world, but still pretty good numbers.

I guess I just felt he was just too over the top for the sake of being over the top.  I didn't hate him because he was evil, I felt ambivalent because the writers were trying too hard to make me think he was evil by piling more and more on.  He's not as actually insane as Kefka, and lacking that actual insanity, there seems to be no grounds (discounting the Suikogaidens, with which I am unfamiliar) for him to act the way he does.

And yet Goldfish brings up a very valid point - Luca Blight's actions are a lot more visible than a massive amount of RPG villains, who often teleport in and out while giving an 'evil' speech about bringing about the apocalypse and don't do a hell of a lot other than morph into some giant creature at the end for some reason. Luca Blight was a ruthless general and his actions spoke louder than his words.

And (SPOILERS kind of) his end is just about one of the best villain endings around. Actually made me feel sorry for the guy and, again, due to the actions, not some speech.

http://www.answers.com/topic/luca-blight

I admit the game doesn't exactly explain this as well as it should, but I have read this is the general scenario with him from numerous sources. Over the top, sure, but a very believable and plausible scenario.

Actually, scarily enough, I find him to be one of the more "human" villains, especially after doing some study of world leaders in the past...

I think that brings up a greater flaw with RPG villains in general. Evil for the sake of being evil is boring. I'd love to play more games where the villains have shades of grey... or are even capable of doing good. Maybe a game where the player gets to BE the villain.

But that WAS Luca's scenario...He was only ruthless because he hated the City-State (where you were, therefore the player was always in his way). I think he definitely fits that shade of grey.

In Growlanser 2, you can ally yourself with the villains and turn on your teammates. That was actually a cool extra touch to the main game.

Okay, not random battles then, but rather an overwhelming number of scripted battles. In  the end it's the same effect - Sometimes I just want to explore unhindered, and getting stopped every few seconds for more combat tries my patience. I know it's a feature of many JRPGs but that doesn't stop it being annoying* (and as I've said, that's the main reason I don't play them anymore - I simply don't have the patience for it. I used to. I used to spend literally hours pacing back and forth on the Gelnika or walking in circles on The Island Closest to Hell).

*To me, anyway

Some of this aren't really what I'd call Rpgs, but you get the idea:

8-bit

Final Fantasy - Perhaps nostalgia clouds my mind being my first Rpg, but this is still an amazing game, especially in updated incarnations.

Zelda II - I played through this one a lot, so much more fun than the other Zeldas, and the last battles are amazing.

Battle of Olympus - Zelda II's fake cousin? Sure, but still a fun game in its own right.

16-bit - my bread and butter

Dragon View - My greatest find of the 16-bit era.  Such an awesome game, it's hard to believe it's a sequel to Drakken.

SoulEarth Series - Souler Blazer-Illusion of Gaia-Terranigma - Fantastic games, my favorite ARpg Series ever, especially if you loosely include ActRaiser and ActRaiser 2.  I miss Quintet.

Phantasy Star IV - Never been a fan of the PS series till this one.  Finally cleaned up the technical aspects, added great pacing, and the comicbook-style cut-scenes were a sweet touch.

Final Fantasy IV-VI - Chrono Trigger - Secret of Mana - Don't need much explanation, everyone knows them, awesome games.

Crusader of Centy - Not that I think it's especially exceptional, but pleasantly surprised I found a game like this on the Genesis.

Lufia 2 - As someone once told me, "Life is too short for Lufia 1." Well, life is too short for all the Lufias, except 2.  Like PS4, it managed to finally get everything right and create one heck of a game.

Beyond Oasis - Just a short, beautiful, amazing game.

EarthBound - Easily one of the worst Rpgs you'll ever play from a technical aspect, but its charm more than makes up for it.  An extremely enjoyable, different experience.

E.V.O - Certainly a weird game and concept, but still managed to be quite solid.  Proves Enix really was almost untouchable during the 16-bit era.

Super Adventure Island 2 - Completely surprised when they changed up the gameplay style, now I wish all Adventure Island games were like this.

Ys I-IV - Another series that needs no justification. 

ShapeShifter - Though rough around the edges, a great offering from the greatest American contributor to video games. 

Exile 1 and 2 - The former gets shafted for being too short and easy, and the latter too hard.  All nonsense, no matter how you slice it, these games rock, especially Wicked Phenomenon.

Dragon Slayer - A slow, archaic game, yet that Falcom charm still finds a way to burst through.  Features some of the most delicously heinous voice-acting ever.

Dungeon Explorer 1 and 2 - The first was a fun little game, the second was a full-blown, timeless epic.  They just don't make games like that anymore.

Neutopia 1 and 2 - Fun Zelda-clones.

Cosmic Fantasy 2 for me was the single-most painful Rpg experience I have ever played.  I have no idea how or why I finished it.  I can't believe how many random, over-powered battles you get trapped in, wasting turn after turn trying to escape while your characters are decimated.  I still have a grudge against Vic Ireland for removing the items that let you escape from battle.  Exploration was out of the question unless you "pwr lvl'd" religously, which was pointless since the game was broken down into 3 separate segments.  Man, that was one f'ed up, horrible experience for me.

LB is no Kefka, but he gives the game an urgency that I wish could've lasted longer.  Jowy in all his greys simply couldn't keep me on edge the way LB did.  I felt like the rest of the game after defeating LB was an epilogue.

But I do understand what Qui-Gon said about the writers trying too hard to make him seem more evil.  Specifically, Luca stating that he was the true face of evil was a bit much for me.  His actions had already done enough to show that.

It's not the initial ending I have such a problem with.  At that point they leave you with the hope that humanity might have survived.  That's the intentionally ambiguous part.  The ending after the credits with Red XIII (followed by cubs, no less) five hundred years later is not.  That last scene with a grown over Midgar suggests the humans definitely did not survive.  Something not supported by Advent Children either.  So while I'm well aware of the "intentional ambiguity" explanation, it doesn't justify all of the conflicting elements.

I was surprised by this one as well.  Fun game and the music has that impressionistic 16-bit quality I love.

How is Earthbound technically flawed though?  I love the non-random encounters (being able to insta-kill weaker enemies is great) and the rolling HP counters made combat feel more involved for me.

See, I never really saw it as that.  If Red XIII survived the ending of the game, why wouldn't anyone else have?  And I imagine it would be even harder for him to keep his species going given that whole gaping plothole where he's both 1. last of his species and 2. male, and then somehow has children 500 years later! 

I wouldn't call it technically flawed, more like technically archaic.  In terms of depth and complexity in the actual role-playing areas it was as shallow as they came.  The one thing I did like was the insta-kills as you grew stronger, but it didn't make a difference unless you went back to old areas, and the experience you received from the enemies it worked on was miniscule.  Most Nintendo Rpgs suffer from being newb-friendly, but I don't mind with EB because it's about the experience.

I agree with much of what has already been mentioned, but I've noticed that PC RPGs have been left out, and this travesty can not go unanswered!  Indeed, some of the finest RPGs in existence, are old school PC

OLD SCHOOL:

Might and Magic III
Ultima IV, V, VII
Ultima Martian Dreams
Wizardry Crusaders of the Dark Savant (gotta love the title!)
Zork!

NEW SCHOOL:

Diablo I, II
Elder Scrolls Morrowind, Oblivion
Heroes of Might and Magic II,III,IV (haven't tried V yet)
Might and Magic VI
Warcraft II,III

I know there are others out there too... feel free to add as you see fit!

cheers,

-avatar!