yeah the "where is he?" parody is big, esp. on YouTube (why link from collegehumor?).

I love that vid so much.

That was great, but this clip is even better (although not related to TDK nor Batman)
http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1816129

I second the motion!

Fourthed.

Saw it again. If anything, it's even BETTER the second time. Amazing film.

I had avoided this thread until I got to see the movie, which I finally did. There's some funny stuff in this thread, from Megavolt deciding exactly what he thought of the movie long before he ever saw it and avatar's devotion to the Burton movies causing him to twist himself up in knots.

I guess Batman is an important subject for people.

As for me, well, I think the Burton movies are embarrassing. To me, they're typical Burton teenage goth cack. Nicholson played the Joker role about a decade too late and chewed up the scenes like a child performing at a party. The second film had no characters in it whatsoever and was pointless from beginning to end. Keaton, however, did a great Bruce Wayne but didn't get the time he deserved. That's just how I see them.

So I was able to leave those behind when seeing this. I have a far greater attachment to the Animated Series, so I was always going to have comparisons there.

But I loved this movie. It is a fantastic, dark crime movie that kept one-upping itself. Oddly, it's not much of a Batman movie. In many ways, it outgrew Batman and the rubber suit and gravelly voice seemed out of place but the Gordon and Dent versus the Joker, which seemed the heart of the movie, was fantastic and reminded me almost of Heat. It was a crime movie, not a superhero movie.

Totally the opposite of Iron Man, which I also really enjoyed.

I can see how real Batman superhero fans wouldn't get what they want from this movie but I thought it was a better movie all-round than most superhero movies and just generally a great movie.

Y'know.. my father used to hold me close sometimes and whisper a little somethin' into my ear when he got drunk...

..Y'wanna know what he said...?

I wouldn't have watched it if I thought that my preconceptions and the impressions of others painted a clear enough picture.

Besides, I enjoyed Batman Begins and so I was anticipating the movie.  My skepticism over some of the things people were saying about it in comparison to previous franchise depictions wasn't going to change that.

TDK was a movie trying to be more than what it was.  Yet in telling the audience what to think, it became less.

Edit: Heh, it's tempting to counter arrogance with arrogance, but I have to be better than that.

What?

Like Jay, I avoided this thread--and its every counterpart on every other forum I haunt--until I was able to see the movie. And, also like Jay, I was disappointed to see that the bulk of the thread was arguing over whether the movie was better or worse than another rendition of Batman... even before the movie was seen.

As a huge fan of the original Animated Series in particular, as well as certain comic book entries, I went into this movie leaving all expectations and preconceived notions at the door, and I'm glad I was able to. I think that to best appreciate this movie, Batman fans have to treat it as brand material rather than a re-telling of the material as they best know/love it, and non-comic book fans have to approach the film not expecting it to fall into the "trappings" of comic book standards (to the non-fans, this would likely include campiness and generally speaking nothing that you can or should take seriously). That might be a lot to ask, but fortunately I think the movie facilitates this very well--it pulls you in and does its own thing. It doesn't give you a chance to compare and contrast because you're too enveloped in it, and that in turn helps it stand as its own entity.

That's the key thing for me--it's its own entity. I love the Animated Series, I love the Animated Joker, I love love love most everything about it--and TDK did absolutely nothing to change that in any way. Nor did DCAU do anything to shape my view of TDK, before during or after seeing it.

While I wasn't cynical or biased,  I did enter the film wondering how they were going to portray characters differently, and if I'd even enjoy it. The immense hype led me to doubt, too, like I shouldn't get my hopes too high or I'd be disappointed. But I was completely taken by the Joker and his movie, start to finish. I was so pleasantly surprised that not only did I get something I couldn't fathom, but that it was wildly thrilling as well. Is he better than Hamill's Joker? Nicholson's? Worse? IT'S A NON ISSUE. This Joker is his own man and he's fantastic for what he is and what he's in. And frankly, I pity those who can't enjoy more than one interpretation.

I thought that the numerous scenes where characters are explaining their motivations were a bit much.  There's no reason why the movie can't simply tell a story and leave it to the audience to figure out what means what.  I'm just not fond of the expositional hand-holding that TDK employs at times, like when the Joker is explaining himself as an agent of chaos, or when the ending tries to explain what it is that Batman represents.  Oh, and Rachel amounted to little more a plot device in the movie, and one who is conveniently eliminated so as to justify Dent's transformation and to leave Batman with no emotional entanglements to interfere with his duty.

I did refrain from criticizing the movie as much as I might have, if just because people are having too much fun talking about how highbrow this movie is compared to other superhero movies.  Although I found things to like about it, I feel like it's a mess in terms of pacing, and I don't understand how some people found it to be so compelling.  The message is interesting, but the storytelling is sloppy.

This guy (LeHah, fourth post) feels similarly, and he explains it greater detail. (more harshly too, but that's his style)  I don't agree with everything he says (as I mentioned before, I thought Ledger was good), but I definitely agree with what he says about exposition and how this movie doesn't handle it well.

You know, people are way off if they think that my core issue with this movie is that it's not B:TAS.  Perhaps that's what they wish it was, because then the naysayers would be easier to dismiss.  No, a person enjoys a movie for what it is, no matter how much their arguments may appear at times to revolve around what it isn't.  I'm sure that this is true for avatar! as well.  I wanted to enjoy this movie as much as possible, regardless of how much I liked or didn't like past versions of Batman.  In the end, I judged it on its own merits.

Sure, I was skeptical of some of the things that people were saying before I saw the movie, and why not?  They were very much like the things that people said about Batman Begins.  Things that I often found to be untrue, unfair, or narrow.  And when I responded, it was to specific examples that people provided, like what Ryu said about the Joker beating up someone with a crowbar being something that the cartoon Joker couldn't match.  Or to the general discussion on how 'dark' Batman could or should be, which didn't require an assessment of an entire movie than I hadn't seen.   People trying to judge me as having done something wrong in what they perceived as me having judged the movie before I saw it...now that's funny.

You guys know the Angry Video Game Nerd, right? Well, he's also done some movie reviews under the moniker "Cinemassacre". I recently saw a three-part retrospective/review he did on all the Batman movies, and thought of this thread. Its been out for a while, so maybe this is old news, but anyways here are the links. Pretty informative and entertaining, IMO.

Part 1: http://www.spike.com/video/cinemassacre-movie/2999422
Part 2: http://www.spike.com/video/bat-thon-part-2/3002124
Part 3: http://www.spike.com/video/bat-thon-part-3/3006755

I stayed out of this thread on purpose because I didn't wanna get dragged into the heated debates, but while I'm here, allow me to just say this:

Jack Nicholson > Heath Ledger.

Thanks for sharing that, I really enjoyed it! I have to agree, Nicholson is definitely the best Joker, but that's because his character was really the Joker, whereas Ledger's was just (as mentioned in the video reviews) an invincible psychopath.

cheers,

-avatar!

Looks like the push for an Oscar for Ledger is about to begin:

"How do you run an Oscar campaign for Heath Ledger, the widely admired young actor who died last January of an overdose of prescription drugs?

Very carefully, it seems, as Warner Bros., the studio behind "The Dark Knight," tries to tread the line between tribute and exploitation in rallying academy support for Ledger's performance as the maniacal, nihilistic Joker." 

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/ne … 9474.story

Good for Heath - I hope he wins it.  There was something magical about this film, and it just so happened to have an exceptional presentation of the arch enemy.  When I finally did get a chance to see it, we watched it in IMAX.  Me and the Mrs's took in a matinee.  At 9:30 a, Full-Screen Theater Imax in LOUD surround sound...I haven't had a movie experience like that, since Aliens (1986).

Though I have an extensive Apple TV movie archive, this is definitely one film I'd like to get on Blue Ray.

-Brandonk

Ryu has been MIA on these boards for a while, but just thought I'd point out what I guess we can take as official confirmation.  According to the recently held BD-Live chat session, Nolan confirms that Dent is indeed dead.

http://www.aintitcool.com/node/39510

Yeah, I came across an article somewhere in which Eckhart would like to play Dent again, but Nolan said (before Ledger died) that Dent is dead.  So, oh well.  Lame.

And, sorry Daniel, but Ledger>Nicholson, but not by much.  I think both of those actors did a great job, and definitely Hamill too.  Glad to know they have Hamill and Conroy (for Batman, obviously) in the upcoming Arkham Asylum game---here's hoping the game is deserving of those two talent (and Dini, a B:TAS writer working on the game's story).

Ryu: Nice to see you around again, man. Don't be a stranger.

My sister bought me the DVD of The Dark Night for Christmas and she got pissy with me when I told her I didn't think it was "as awesome" as she thought it was. Really, she drives me nuts and I don't know why I watch anything with her.

I think a lot of this has to do with how much hype surrounded the film before I saw it, something that was only magnified by Ledger's death. Not saying I'd have liked it more if he was still alive but this has a lot to do with her thinking I liked the first one more than I did. I liked it but I wasn't in love with it; it doesn't take much to beat Batman and Robin, etc.

I'm in the clan that likes the first movie more... the fact the main villain and his plot wasn't comic book fodder was kind of refreshing. I wasn't too thrilled about Dent in this movie and really thought his scarring was overdone; would have been more interesting had seemed more "human" like a regular burn victim. I think I'm really stuck on how Two-Face was presented in the cartoon although this really isn't the case with the Joker even though I like his incarnation there as well.

Also, after a second helping I got to say Bale's "Batman voice" is really overdone.

THIS!

And this!
I ended up loving everything about the movie, except for the moments with Batman in them.
His stupid overdone voice was kinda embarassing and brought the rest of the movie down, I thought.