Honestly, I think I liked the early 90s better. Sure, we barely got anything but what we got was generally high-quality. Now it seems that the majority of the JRPGs are taken from the same cookie-cutter plots and character templates. You can have the most amazing translation in the world but it's not gonna matter if the Japanese dialogue was bland to begin with.

I don't even bother buying games that much anymore... I tried Tales of Legendia for a few hours and I laughed at how utterly cliche it was. I've largely switched to the PC for my gaming needs.

You know, I hate this argument, each and every time it comes up. JRPG stories of the 90s were, for all intents and purposes, like the JRPG stories of today, presentation aside. Same templates, same plots, same themes, same oddball titles with wierd battles and adult-slanting gameplay. Few made it stateside, true, but that's my point - the main difference is within you. You're more experienced, mature, picky, whatever - the difference is you. If RPGs had been as big in America pre-FF7 as they had always been, you'd be where you are now about 10 years earlier. You want to say JRPGs are tired, fine, that's your opinion, but for pity's sake don't argue that they used to be better.

Oh, and speaking of FF7...

"By the way, you didn't happen to read that awful Game Informer review that somehow managed to compare it to Final Fantasy 7, did you?"

"*shudders* ...yeah"

Please guys, tell me this isn't just blasé FF7-bashing for no good reason. I need to know some corner of the Internet is above that.

I'm just saying it was a terrible review because it spent half of the space that was supposed to be dedicated to S5 talking about the high points of FF7 and how S5 stacked up against it (and much of the space actually talking about the game says what I said earlier about it starting off slowly). How is S5 supposed to establish an identity among the readers of that magazine when it's just being compared to a game from 9 years ago and 80 percent of everything else is negative?

They did the same thing with Star Ocean 3 when it came out and went on about how the story wasn't as "epic" as Xenosaga or something...Then again, this IS Game Informer. There's a reason they practically give it away for free.

I won't say RPG's are getting better or worse...All I know is we're getting more of them, the desire for Japanese developers to bring them out here is there (finally), there's more localization companies willing to do the dirty work and we're getting more of the overall picture over here, which should be considered a good thing. I remember being pretty steamed when I started learning about all of the late-Super Famicom ones that never came out here (Star Ocean, Tales of Phantasia, DW5 and 6, the Fire Emblems, any Square one not called FFVI, CT or Mario RPG, among others...Hmm, Virtual Console "original" titles perhaps?). Not every one is going to be good (just the same way an FPS fan will say not every FPS is good), but it sure is nice having all of those SRPG's of this generation, niche games like Atelier (sprite-based, complex alchemy stuff, super kawaii-ness) and overall lesser-known titles outside of Japan that hold up their end of the gameplay deal like Ys VI and Growlanser to go with the franchises that managed to build up in the PS1 era (Wild Arms, Suikoden, Grandia).

I will say this though: FF6 and CT have been considerably knocked down a few notches in my top ten and most of the titles that did the damage are fairly recent (well, PS1-era and higher anyway). So I'd kinda be forced to say things are getting better.

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The only reason I feel they were better over a decade ago is that there were less of them and through blind luck, I didn't tend to buy the crappy ones. I'm sure that for every Chrono Trigger, there was a 7th Saga but I didn't have the money to find out.

And don't get pissy with me just because you hate the argument. I could always throw out the horrifically fanboyish "ALL SQUARE-ENIX GAMES ARE FLAWLESS AND THEY CAN DO KNOW WRONG" line.

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While perceptions may have something to do with which RPGs one experienced first, that isn't all there is to it.  Otherwise I wouldn't have enjoyed Shining Force more than Disgaea despite playing it for the first time after I had played Disgaea.  The difference isn't simply one of personal experience.  A lot of those older RPGs still have a transcendant quality.  They were trying to be something more than what they were, and it gave them charm.  It also has to do with filling parts of the game with parts of yourself rather than being bombarded with some pretentious plot.  Sometimes the purity and appeal of a concept is ruined by the anime cliches and emo stuff of today.

Getting back to the topic:

Check out Breath of Fire V if you're interested in something with great gameplay that is a little different. Just keep in mind that it's essentially a dungeon crawler. You're underground the entire time trying to make your way to the surface and the game is very atmospheric. It has a good story, but if you're playing it for that above all else, then you might not like it. Don't expect something along the lines of FFX. That being said, I'd recommend it to any fan of Vagrant Story, since there are some similarities. BoFV can be difficult during the first run through, but it is perfectly passable in one shot without having to restart, despite what you might've heard. Just try to be more strategic and conscious about item and resource management. You get three party members who each possess unique skills and using them as a team should get you far without having to rely too much on Ryu's life-shaving power. Either way, the game is designed so that each successive playthrough lets you keep your equipment/items (only what is equipped or in the arsenal storeroom), money/skills and extra pool of experience points. Depending on your performance, you can also gain access to extra areas and more cutscenes that shed more light on the story. It's an incredibly well-designed approach which provides a lot of replay value. It also happens to have a great soundtrack provided by the same man (Sakimoto) who did Vagrant Story and FFXII.  The main problem with BoFV is known by all.  That is that it's not particularly accessible and it takes some getting used to.  If you're willing to deal with that however, I'm sure you'll find it to be a rewarding experience.  It's still my favorite RPG this gen.

As for Suikoden V, it's pretty good, but I should mention that it has the same shortcomings as earlier iterations.  Weak dungeon layouts, uninspired enemy and dungeon designs, and combat that still somehow feels more obligatory than fun.  Suikoden (the series) recycles traditional RPG concepts as well as concepts born from the first Suikoden, and even though they've been refining and adding to the formula here or there, you can feel that there's something lacking when you compare the games to something more vibrant and progressive like Valkyrie Profile. The game design is just a bit tired and uninventive.  Not that it's a game-breaking problem at all, as I enjoyed the first two Suikoden games as well as Suikoden V, but it has always been enough to keep me from raving about the series like some others do.  Suikoden is like Dragon Quest for me. They aren't ambitious, original, or innovative enough to go beyond a certain point. They simply build on an established format without taking too many risks, and the result is a more consistent but also less potent experience.  In any case, if you're one of those RPGers who plays for plot above all else, then forget about my gripes and pick it up.  Heck, it's worth picking up anyways, since it's one of the better RPGs on the console.

LONG thread.

Here's my two cents, even if noone cares:

Wild Arms 4: Haven't played it, but I heard it's not as good as 3, and 3 wasn't that special either. Not bad though.

Suikoden V: Lost interest in the series after 2, but everyone keeps telling me this game is as good as the old ones. I'll have to pick this up myself later.

Dragon Quest VIII: IMHO, Tremendously boring. Played it for a good 10 hours, and then I realised I wasn't enjoying it one bit. Boring battles, boring story, HUGE and pretty environments that are totally BORING, and boring characters. BORING game.

Grandia III: Nice, but very generic. If you liked Grandia II, chances are you'll like this, although it's not quite as good. The series has been pretty much living off its Battle System since the beginning (and it IS very good), but aside from some very pretty environments Grandia III offers very little new. Annoying characters too, and rather childish.

Breath of Fire V: Dragon Quarter: HARD! HARD! HARD! Unforigivingly HARD! I used a cheat to make it through to the end, cos in all honesty, I LOVED the atmosphere, the setting and the soundtrack (definitely the best thing Sakimoto has ever done, as well as being a superb soundtrack in its own right, and this is coming from a non-fan), but I couldn' t really bring myself to liking the game itself. Only try this if you're going to be SERIOUS about it.
Unique game though.

Shadow Hearts: From The New World: Is currently on my backlog, and is going to be the first game I play after finishing VP Sylmeria. I loved the original, and I only recently finished Covenant, and absolutely ADORED it. Go play the original and Covenant if you haven't already. Superb games.
I'm really looking forward to this one, although people tell me it's not as good as its predecessors.

Speaking of which, nor is Sylmeria. The OST, although well-instrumented, is rather tame for a Sakuraba soundtrack (so far) especially when compared to the great PSX original.
The graphics are gorgeous, but everything else seems to be lacking, but then, I loved the original SO MUCH, that I wasn't expecting this one to be better anyway.

Shin Megami Tensei: Digital Devil Saga 2: Don't know nuthin about this one.

Come to think of it, that's a problem I had with the game as well. Every time a battle would start, I'd dread it because I knew the load times were bad and the battles themselves simply weren't that interesting. I'd want them to get over with so I could get back to the story. There are very few RPGs that have engaging battle systems to me, especially if they're of the random encounter variety.

My problem was just the opposite: S5 didn't have enough battles in it. I get a lot out of the sheer chaos factor of having six characters on my side and the lengths I went I to get everyone properly outfitted, so once I started gearing up my main party and really figured out what I was doing, there just weren't enough enemies to kill. Maybe it just seemed that way. I wish it had S4's encounter rate, better loading and somewhat higher difficulty...But stupid S4 only has 4-person parties! I'm only ten hours in on that one and I'm already strapped for spots.

I would've given anything for a massive 99-level no-save bonus dungeon to test my main S5 team in. I've toyed with the idea of either doing an all-Beaver run or try a run using only combined attacks to deal damage.

DQ8 has charm and the pretty graphics don't hurt (though I agree that the 3D world is glaringly devoid of life).

I wouldn't even use Game Informer as toilet paper much less read it.  The most I've read about Suikoden V has been at these boards, and I don't think any reviews I saw even began to approach the glowing reception the game has received here.

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And for good reason.  Drakengard was terrible.  Still, your point about well known stuff selling better less unknown stuff is well taken, but part of the reason this occurs is because games are extremely expensive.  One of the reasons Katamari was able to break through was its grab and go $20 launch price.  As a low risk purchase, people who heard good things about it could try it out without feeling the commitment of a $50 purchase.  Also look at what Sega did with its 2K Sports series before it sold the franchise to Take Two.  It priced all the titles at $20 and they quite very well.  The football one sold so well that EA got scared, lowered the price of Madden, and then paid a huge sum of money to lock up every imaginable football license so it could raise the price of Madden up to $60 for the next gen.

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