So I've decided to indulge myself this summer, by finally dabbling in an RPG of recent years.  So far, I've narrowed down my choice to the selection below; can you fellow STC'ers give me the good word (or bad) on 'em?  And naturally, I'd be open to other titles that are noteworthy but unmentioned.  Thanks!

Wild Arms 4
Suikoden V
Dragon Quest VIII
Grandia III
Breath of Fire V: Dragon Quarter
Shadow Hearts: From The New World
Shin Megami Tensei: Digital Devil Saga 2

I'm notreally too familiar with any of those except for DDS, but I'm only several hours in to the first one - haven't even touched the second yet. I'd say finish that story up if you already completed the first title. I tried BOFV but I didn't care for it.

But, aside from that, Vandal Hearts gets my vote.

*crickets chirping*

You haven't tried DQVIII yet?!?
...well, I guess it depends on if you like the old school.

Personally, that's what helped me keep my sanity over the fall and winter. I LOVED it.

I'm a bit biased as I'm only familiar with one title from your list, but I second Dragon Quest VIII. I'm playing it now and am absolutely loving it, which is kind of saying a lot because it takes something special for me to get interested in a game and stay interested these days.

It really is "old school" though--aside from presentation and the world map, there's nothing remotely modern about it. But that's the way I like it, I suppose. This is my first Dragon Quest, so you don't have to be a fan of the series to enjoy it.

A bit of warning about Dragon Quarter.

1. If you plan on playing it seriously, plan on dedicating yourself to it. Half the game is figuring out the shortest, most efficent way of proceeding.
2. You probably already know this, but it's highly likely you'll need to restart it at least once, if not a few times, to finish it. If that's a deterrent, stay away.
3. Beware if you have an early copy of the game. Reports suggest that on many early copies, the ending will not play. Capcom reportedly will replace such copies, but given the effort it takes to get there, it's a real kick in the ass if you have to wait for your reward (not to mention clear the end again).

I too have, but haven't yet played, DQ8. Trying to finish Paper Mario 2 first, in my case. Maybe I should pick up the pace.

Just finished Shadow Hearts From The New World - it's not as good as SH1 or 2, but it's still very solid and a lot of fun throughout.  VERY heavily weighted towards sidequests at the end (more than half my total playtime was spent after getting to the final dungeon), so if you don't like that sort of thing, you might want to steer clear.  It's wacky, but with a lot of serious moments, so pretty much what you'd expect from a Shadow Hearts game.  Knowledge of the previous two isn't going to matter very much outside of knowing what the significance of certain people/items in past installments was (not knowing wouldn't decrease the enjoyment, I don't think).

I'm reminded that I have unopened, untouched copies of Suikoden IV, Shadow Hearts, and Shadow of the Colossus in my game backlog from hell...among others...

Try Mother 3!

I found Grandia 3 to be quite disappointing compared to the other three (Xtreme included).  It seemed to lack a lot of the charm of the other games.  Even the excellent battle system couldn't help me get over the stupid cliched plot.  And the hints seemed to ruin the battle system for me too.

Alrighty...

Suikoden V - Somewhat unsurprisingly, this is my recommendation. You get an awesome story, great characters and it'll suck you right in.
Dragon Quest VIII - Eh. I played fifteen hours into it and then gave up. I just wasn't in the movie for that kind of RPG I guess (boring characters and plot and lots of level grinding). Great music and graphics though.
Grandia III - Generic, generic, generic. Battle system is great but that's about it.
Breath of Fire V: Dragon Quarter - Worth it if you're in the mood for an experiment. This is a love it/hate it kind of game. Sakimoto's music is some of his best.
Shadow Hearts: From The New World - Not as good as the first two but not terrible. Just don't have high expectations.

*peeks out onstage*

Guess this is my cue to come out and do my Suikoden V endorsement.

*Walks out*

(Clears throat) If you were only able to play through a single RPG on that list, I humbly recommend playing through Suikoden V. It not only excels in so many categories that traditional RPG's are judged by (and MANY fall short of), it was clearly designed by people who were huge fans of Suikoden 2, giving it a firm grasp on what makes the series so unique, despite its' old-school roots (not to mention more than one direct reference...Think Luca Blight and the towns he slaughtered and the famous scene that occurred in one...). There's the constant feeling of "anything can happen, anyone can die, anyone can switch sides, everyone has compelling motivation to do what they do" built into the storyline and it tells a very compelling war story overall (with a gigantic backstory to keep tabs on and learn about), but there's also the traditional Suikoden humor sprinkled throughout game, which keeps things from getting TOO serious (some cutscenes are actually downright side-splitting...Wait until you get to Sable and meet the bandits) It's a very smooth ride through the storyline, which is helped by the large and memorable cast...Enjoyable heroes, GREAT villains (not Luca-great, but still highly despicable in their own right...The Godwins and Barrows' are far better politicians than Luca ever was) and there's so many characters, it makes the world feel much more alive than it really is (one of the draws of all the games, actually) Even most of the "traditional" stereotypes you meet are compellingly written.

Gameplay-wise, imagine Suikoden 2 with all kinds of extras, including a four-character entourage (party members who can be switched in), skills (used to boost particular stats on characters) and formations which allow you to customize your party well past the traditional 3x3 grid (there's one that allows 5 S-Range characters, in addition to the hero) Duels are the same, although nicely animated and voiced. The biggest change is the large-scale fights, which are actually fun now...Think Fire Emblem as an RTS and that's pretty much what you have. I would love to see a side-game of all large-scale wars.

Basically, it's a next-gen Suikoden game done right...One that takes the foundation and massively improves on it, as opposed to the "change for the sake of change" feeling from Suikoden 3 and 4. Me personally, I somehow found 114 hours to invest in playing through the game twice (once for the crappy ending where I tried to find all of the characters on my own and then again, with heavy FAQ help to get the best endings) And all that's maybe over the span of only a month (there were a pair of 14-hour marathons in there). I have five Suikoden saves on my memory card, so I can readily revisit certain spots. The last "traditional" RPG I played through was FFX four years ago (that was only 35-40 hours or so, total...And that took 3 months alone) It's taken me 11 months to play 25 hours on Atelier Iris and almost two years to put 8 on Star Ocean 3, so I've been out of the "traditional" RPG loop for awhile.

It isn't flawless: Loading time are annoying, there aren't enough chances for regular battles, the beginning is far too long (This is about the 6th time I've written something in the vein of, "Get past the first 7 hours and the first huge event before passing judgement on the entire game"), it's scientifically impossible to get all of the Stars of Destiny without a guide, it would be nice to get the tablet earlier in the game, and there aren't enough chances to use some of the really cool stuff you get late in the game. But it offered me more than enough that, if I had to award Game of the Year right now, it would get the nod over New SMB and Tetris DS.

And if that's not enough...It actually gave me motivation to start working on Suikoden IV. That took a miracle in itself.

*walks off the stage*

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I thought it still had a decent amount of charm (especially compared to xtreme, which I found pretty intolerable... maybe just because I liked Yuuki and Miranda in G3 and didn't like anyone in xtreme), but I generally agree.  It was very disappointing for a game that at first seemed to have such great potential.  Also, to be fair you could turn the battle hints off from the menu.

DQ8 is the only one of these I'd recommend.

Really?  Aww, damn.  I didn't know that.

I liked Grandia Xtreme because what it lacked in plot, it had in gameplay.  I do love Dungeon Hacks and I can say they're one of my favourite genres.  If you don't like dungeon hacks, I'm sure it's a terrible game to play, but, I had a blast with it.

On another note, I would wholeheartedly endorse SMT: DDS2 as the only good RPG on that list.

Being seriously out of the loop both forum-wise and game-wise, I ask: Have you played Kingdom Hearts 2 yet?

*shudder*

After four hours, I gave up on that game. So. Boring.

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Especially when you stop right in the middle of the most boring part. Not every game starts off exciting; even GoldfishX's glowing Suikoden V review recommends waiting 7 hours to pass judgement.

Man, you guys are making this a seriously tough choice.  I suppose right now, it's boiling down to DQ8 or Suikoden V.  Hm, maybe I should just cop out, and go with Zane's suggestion: play through Vandal Hearts again.  ;)

So...I assume the people who say "Game X is the only good game on that list" are able to provide effective reasoning why everything else sucks or isn't worth playing. Please elaborate. Or just say you haven't played everything like I think you're saying (since the majority of RPG's on the list require a massive time commitment).

Suikoden V is the only one I fully and entirely endorse, but to be perfectly fair, I haven't played many of the others. I'm planning to...I have Wild Arms 4 now...Got it at the Circuit City sale. Cool battle system thus far (main reason I wanted to try it) and I like some of the Klonoa-like sections, but characters seem generic and it's up in the air how long it'll hold my interest...Will probably do this one after trudging through Suikoden IV. It's actually supposed to be pretty short as well (20 hours or so).

Atta girl! People always give me weird looks when we start talking about SRPG's and I tell them that I really didn't like FFT or Tactics Ogre... but loved Vandal Hearts. There are way too many awesome and unique moments in that game, and it has such a badass soundtrack.

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Easy, play Vandal Hearts in this summer, then pick DQ8 for Fall and then Suikoden V for Winter.

Oh, I gave the game its chance. I made it through the agonizing intro (which Suikoden V did about twenty times better) and gave up in the Beast's castle.

No, not to me.  But that shouldn't stop others from enjoying them.

So...What did you think of the others when you...you know, played them? How far did you get in any of them? What did you think of the battle systems? Were they too long? Were the characters any good? Etc...

I would just assume if people are going to pass such strict judgements like that, they would have direct complaints/praises about each game.

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Ok...  out of that list of games, there are only three that interest me: DQ8, BoF5, and Grandia 3.  So, automatically, I am not going to recommend anything that doesn't interest me and that wipes out SH3, WA4, S5, and SMT:DDS2.  Grandia 3 gets eliminated because everything I've read says the story is lame.  Would you recommend it based on that information?  BoF5 gets eliminated because I own it and it's not a good game (bizarre gameplay structure ruins what would have been a cool title).  So that leaves DQ8 which I own and find enjoyable.

Also, let's be clear that I never said that I played all of these games and that only DQ8 is good.  That's not true.  What is true is exactly what I did say: the only one I recommend is DQ8.  I'm not making any kind of absolute judgement against the other games as you seem to suggest.  I'm just saying that I cannot recommend them based on the information in my possession.

Okay...I just wanted to make sure. It wasn't clear if you guys HAD played them all and were saying DQ8 was the only good one of the bunch (in which case, asking for clarification is well within reason) or if you hadn't played them all and were recommending based solely on what you had played (the more likely choice). The two have massively different meanings.

Follow-up question (for my own curiosity): Considering all are turn-based RPG's with varying degrees of characters/plots/battles/whatevers, what gets 4 of them automatically disqualified for you? I have decisions of my own on what to go to next and I'd say 5/7 of these are in the running for me (BoF V being out simply because I don't like replay being a requirement of an RPG...I only replay ones after I've finished them and know I like them. And Grandia 3 mostly for the same reason you mentioned, plus I found the soundtrack massively disappointing and the sole thing that interests me is the battle system. I'm amazed it came out to so little hype...I remember everyone was looking forward to the first 2).

Wild Arms 4 has a good-looking battle system and great music (the non-Naruke guys did a bang-up job for the most part), I'm interested in the setting for SH3 (plus I'm new to that series and it seems to have quite a following), I have good memories of DW3 and 4 so DW8 is highly probable (demo looked nice too...biggest question is whether or not I'll find enough hours to play through it.) and the plot/music/potential challenge of the DDS series has me interested as well...And I set everything aside for Suikoden V, simply because it seemed to promise everything I expected from a great entry in the series for the first time on PS2: great story with plenty of twists, lots of well-done characters on both sides, fully loaded battle customizations, traditional six-man parties, generally pretty good music, plus the 3D graphics and voice acting expected for a PS2 update). All I have to say is: It delivered as promised and I feel humbled about where I originally had my expectations.

So heh...Not to hijack Angela's thread, but I'm also trying to use it for my own purposes as well. I tend to trust opinions here more than, say, GameFAQs.

Don't be silly.  If anything, your inquiries are giving way to further insight on my own research.  Varied discussion; the structure of a solid forum board.

Gotta disagree with ya on Grandia 3's score, though.  That tinge of interest is still nagging at me to play the game, based on the merit of the music score alone.  I loved it, and am curious as to how it all fits into context.

Gotta agree with Angela on the Grandia III score - it's one of the bright points of the game (outside of the battles and stunningly beautiful setting design/implementation) that kept me going through the whole thing.  In fact, I might say I like it better than Grandia II.  I recently went back to that one and realized that while there are a number of pieces that are flat-out amazing, a lot of the score I find unlistenable outside of the game.

The key here is that time is my most precious resource and I have to be extremely selective these days.  Sure, I could buy every game I heard was supposed to be good (like I did in college), but that's just wasting money, so I have to do a lot of filtering.  The most basic consideration is this: am I going to play game x?  I have still have a pile of RPGs and RPG/Strategy titles for PSX, N64, PS2, DC, NGC, and GBA that I haven't played seriously.  Why should I continue to partonize these genres when I rarely actually play the games in them?  At this point, I'm playing about one major RPG title and one or two minor RPG titles per year, so buying many of them seems pretty pointless to me now.  As such, I only want the ones I'm going to enjoy most.

In order to determine that, I can only use the information that is available to me: experience with a series or developer's past titles, previews, reviews and, if possible, hands-on playtests of the actual games.  So, based on that info, I have to pare down the glut of Japanese RPGs available to choose from to just the ones there's some chance I will not only enjoy, but actually enjoy so much that I might actually sit down and play through them.

With DQ8, I was very skeptical since I didn't care for my playtests of any of the earlier titles in the series due to the clumsy interface.  However, I had heard that Squenix really wanted to push this one outside of Japan, and I really liked the way Level 5 translated Toriyama's art to 3D, so I ordered the free demo that Squenix offered and was pleased to see that the interface had been fixed up in the U.S. version.  I ended up playing the demo for four hours straight.  That almost never happens.

For Grandia 3, I was actually originally planning to get it since I liked the art, concept, battle system, and music, but the reviews' repeated mention of the lame story turned me off.  I own but never played through the first two, so if this one has a lame story, why should I pay another $50 for it to collect dust along with its forefathers? (Well, my sister played through the first two and I watched some of that, so they didn't go completely to waste.)

For Shadow Hearts 3, I skipped that because the general consensus was that it wasn't as good as the second one, and I was never motivated to play the second one for more than a short time, so I didn't see the need to blow another $50.

Suikoden 5 and Wild Arms 4 are out based on my experiences with earlier titles in both series, neither of which have ever impressed me.  I read previews and reviews for these as well, and there was nothing in them that caught my eye or said I should invest time in trying to get a playtest.  Neither sound like bad games, they just don't interest me.

Finally, I honestly can't remember why DDS2 turns me off, but I have a negative affect surrounding it in my mind, so I guess there must be something about its design or appeal that doesn't do it for me.  I could go look it up and reread the reviews to find out what, but I don't really care, so I'm not going to waste my time.

Again, I have to come back to time here.  RPGs just take too long.  If I'm going to spend 50-80 hours on one game, it better be an incredible experience, and not just incredible in and of itself, but incredible enough to cover the opportunity cost of not having the time to play 10 five-hour games or eight 10-hour games.  I can't even say that DQ8 is worth that, but I can say that of all the titles under discussion, it is the only one I'm able to recommend as a possibility.

Points acknowledged. RPG's do take awhile and I've seen firsthand how easy it can be to become disenchanted with them. Just the same, I'm personally glad to have them near the top of my gaming priority list and finding the ones that 'click'  and eat up hours like a hot knife through butter is part of the fun. But yeah...If you're not enjoying them and feel they're not only time consuming, but also not worth the hours, no sense playing them.

In general, I'm a tad disappointed in both the media and the consumer market. For years, everyone whines and complains about there not being enough JRPG's coming over...Now we're overflowing with the stuff, some with amazing translations and some great overall variety, yet most people now treat the games like obstacles (most magazines just turn their "reviews" into lengthy comparisons with various Final Fantasy games...) I'm still amazed at how DQ8 managed to get over with so many people, considering the...erm, deafening reception DQ7 got.

I'll just say basing Suikoden 5 on its' predecessors is a mistake and leave it at that. Don't get me wrong: It goes out of its' way to provide fan-service and collecting all 108 characters is still required for the "true" endings, but the gameplay, presentation and especially the characters/storyline are much more polished.

By the way, you didn't happen to read that awful Game Informer review that somehow managed to compare it to Final Fantasy 7, did you?

And also please tell me you weren't referring to Suikoden IV above...That game would be so good if it didn't have so much wrong with it.

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