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Jay Nov 12, 2011

Well you've skewed your question by not including the cel shaded ones, and why wouldn't you include them? OoT and MM obviously look the same. Wind Waker is totally different. And Twilight Princess is different again, though closer to OoT in design style (not like you'd confuse the two though). This new one looks very different again, especially in the rendering.

avatar! Nov 13, 2011 (edited Nov 13, 2011)

Amazingu wrote:
avatar! wrote:

Oh, and once again we do NOT get any voice acting (very lame on Nintendo). The reviewer said the graphics are the best on the Wii... but they still pale in comparison to the Xbox or PS3.

Who cares?
Zelda games don't NEED voice acting.
Not every single game in the world needs to be fully voiced.

And I also hate how some people seem to think it's wrong to say a Wii game looks good because the PS360 looks so much better.

Actually, I do care. You're right Zelda games don't need voice acting, in fact no game NEEDS voice acting, but I think most games (including Zelda) should definitely have voice acting. One thing I did like about Twilight Princess was the fact that Midna "spoke". True,it was nonsensical and probably repeated the same phrase many times, but that made a HUGE difference in the game, at least for me.

I actually think the excuse "oh, it's a Zelda game it doesn't need this or that, who cares..." is actually very bad. When OoT came out, it set the benchmark for games, and having a minimum of voice acting (such as Navi say "hey") was fine, and in fact really added to the game. Now? no longer acceptable. It seems to me that in many ways Nintendo has NOT progressed past OoT. I thought TP was a step in the right direction, and I was really hoping the next Zelda game would be voiced (and hey, Link does not have to talk at all, but the other characters really should). Seems to me like Nintendo refuses to progress in many ways. Let's not forget that they refused to accept digital disks and instead produced the N64, which opened the doors for Sony to become the #1 game machine.

Anyway, I do digress a little but the point is we're getting another Zelda game that could be much improved. I will admit that graphics are not nearly as important as art direction, and my statement on Wii graphics vs Xbox/PS3 did not come out the way I intended. I meant that it seems like ign bashes many games for their graphics, and yet said the graphics on the new Zelda game are astounding. Well, it's probably relative, so I don't consider that a big deal. However, Skyward really appears to be just OoT version 4.0.  Still, that's not necessarily a terrible thing, and again I reserve final judgment until I play. However, I still think it's been far hyped out of proportion, and I still want some voice acting! By the way, I can't think of any large company outside of Nintendo which produces RPGs/Adventure games for consoles with no voice acting, can you?

Amazingu Nov 13, 2011

avatar! wrote:

By the way, I can't think of any large company outside of Nintendo which produces RPGs/Adventure games for consoles with no voice acting, can you?

Has Nintendo ever struck you as a company that cares about what other companies do?

avatar! Nov 13, 2011

Amazingu wrote:
avatar! wrote:

By the way, I can't think of any large company outside of Nintendo which produces RPGs/Adventure games for consoles with no voice acting, can you?

Has Nintendo ever struck you as a company that cares about what other companies do?

That may be true smile
However, I think in this case they really should use voice acting.

Jay Nov 13, 2011

I'm with avatar here. Nintendo obviously do what they do very well but there are times they allow that... not even sure what to call it (want to go with arrogance but that's far too negative, possibly self-indulgence and an unwillingness to move with the times)... to get in the way. Like Metroid Prime 3's instantly respawning enemies, which nobody else would have been let away with since the SNES days. Yes, that was Retro but they got away with it because it was a Nintendo game.

Sure, Zelda doesn't need voice acting. But everything else about the game has moved to the point where it now feels incongruent to leave it out.

XLord007 Nov 14, 2011

Personally, I'm fine with Zelda games skipping the voice acting, but I do think the company is making a mistake by doing it.  It does seem strange that a game of this size and scope is missing it, and younger gamers who didn't grow up with Zelda games will think less of the series because of it.  That said, Link should never talk since he's just a representation of the player.

Jay Nov 14, 2011

I can understand that rationale in a game like Myst, with minimal interaction and no hint of what the player looks like. But when I'm staring at this big green fairy who is clearly not me and also he's having loads of silent conversations with townspeople in which, if it were me, I would talk, I'm not sure what value the silence has in terms of being an extension of me.

SonicPanda Nov 14, 2011

Regarding the voice acting debate, I'd actually like Nintendo to use less of it in general. Mario's voice has gotten higher and squeakier as time has gone on (Homer Simpson and Spongebob suffer the same affliction), and is now almost unbearable to listen to. StarFox voices never should've gone past the jibber-jabber noises, and if the noises NPCs made in Twilight Princess are anything to go by, constant voice would destroy any enjoyment I could derive from the series. Every time that Popeye postman shows up I want to throw the disk away.

On the topic of the game itself, early reviews seem to suggest that there is even more mandated boondoggling than in TP, which is going to feel like torture on anything past the first playthrough. I'm still looking forward to playing it, but I wish devs would stop assuming that they need this sort of padding so that they can brag about length. I'd rather play ten solid two-hour games without any fat on them than labor for two hours at a time to get at the interesting bits of a single great game.

Ashley Winchester Nov 14, 2011

SonicPanda wrote:

StarFox voices never should've gone past the jibber-jabber noises.

This I have to agree on... to a point. I like the jibber jabber noises but at the same time I love the voice acting used during the ending when Fox and his team check in with Pepper and Corneria. I know it's low sampled but it really helps put a real capper on the whole adventure. Still, you're probably refering to Star Fox 64 and beyond in that respect and not the original's brief usage.

TerraEpon Nov 14, 2011

SonicPanda wrote:

On the topic of the game itself, early reviews seem to suggest that there is even more mandated boondoggling than in TP, which is going to feel like torture on anything past the first playthrough. I'm still looking forward to playing it, but I wish devs would stop assuming that they need this sort of padding so that they can brag about length. I'd rather play ten solid two-hour games without any fat on them than labor for two hours at a time to get at the interesting bits of a single great game.

I'd rather have extra running around stuff than the idiotic mini-game type crap that's unrelated to the normal gameplay, yet forced on you to continue the story (in TP, for instance, the horse and bridge duals, the bird through the canyon, the escort mission, and anything else later I may not have gotten to).

XLord007 Nov 21, 2011 (edited Nov 21, 2011)

Put 7.25 hours in today and I love it so far.  The art direction, music, and characterizations are all beautiful and I can't get enough.  The enemies I've faced so far haven't been very demanding, so I can't really comment on the more strategic aspects of sword fighting yet (I spent most of my time simply exploring and interacting with the world).  My only gripe so far is that there's no option to switch Z targeting from Hold to Toggle.  Not sure why they omitted that.  At any rate, I can't wait to play more.

Ashley Winchester Nov 21, 2011

TerraEpon wrote:
SonicPanda wrote:

On the topic of the game itself, early reviews seem to suggest that there is even more mandated boondoggling than in TP, which is going to feel like torture on anything past the first playthrough. I'm still looking forward to playing it, but I wish devs would stop assuming that they need this sort of padding so that they can brag about length. I'd rather play ten solid two-hour games without any fat on them than labor for two hours at a time to get at the interesting bits of a single great game.

I'd rather have extra running around stuff than the idiotic mini-game type crap that's unrelated to the normal gameplay, yet forced on you to continue the story (in TP, for instance, the horse and bridge duals, the bird through the canyon, the escort mission, and anything else later I may not have gotten to).

I don't know, these musings really remind me of Wild Arms vs Wild Arms Alter code:F which boils down to a 30hr vs 60hr debate. Yeah, the remake might be twice as long but that extra 30hrs is nothing but pure filler that has you doing all sorts of inane things for the sake of completeness. As if it needs to be said it does a great job at sucking the soul out of the experience. It's sad the only reason I might hang onto the game is a handful of scenes - not the gameplay but scenes. Am I the only one saddened by that?

Idolores Nov 23, 2011 (edited Nov 23, 2011)

Loving the first 15 or so minutes. The cast of characters introduced thus far are colourful and full of life and I love the aesthetic of the game and how it combines Twilight Princess's realistic look with the vibrancy of Wind Waker. This is truly a beautiful game, graphical fidelity be damned.

Will play more later when I'm done with Dark Souls. Loving my orchestra bonus CD. This is good shit. Usually don't dig symphonic, either.

If there's one thing I don't like, it's using the Wii remote to control Link. I'd much prefer classic controller or Gamecube pad support.

Kenology Nov 23, 2011

I'm about 9 hours in. I've been spending a lot of time doing periphery quests like tracking down Gratitude Crystals in Skyloft, catching bugs, and farming materials to upgrade gear.  Am also currently amassing rupees to buy an extra pouch and heart medal from Beedle.  I'm having a lot of fun not even doing the main quest but I'm about to get started on Eldin Province now.

One extreme annoyance for me has been the text speed.  Unlike Ocarina through TP, where you could tap 'A' and the entirety of the text bubble would be displayed, you have to sit through the slow ass text and can't skip to the end of the message at all now.  Holding 'A' only slightly speeds it up.  What an annoying step back.  At least give us the option for slow or fast text.

avatar! Nov 23, 2011

Kenology wrote:

I'm about 9 hours in. I've been spending a lot of time doing periphery quests like tracking down Gratitude Crystals in Skyloft, catching bugs, and farming materials to upgrade gear.  Am also currently amassing rupees to buy an extra pouch and heart medal from Beedle.

I couldn't help but smile and think of this:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbUqEPUZ-ds&

I'd like to hear people's thoughts/impressions after playing for a while. I really would like to know, is this a really new and exciting Zelda experience, or Ocarina of Time v4.0?

jb Nov 23, 2011

Nintendo is retarded for not making a left-handed mode.  Unbelievable.

avatar! Nov 25, 2011 (edited Nov 25, 2011)

So anyway, watch ign foam at the mouth over this!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRd5hd2BlC0

"the greatest Zelda game ever created"

"sets a new benchmark for Zelda, for the Wii, for Nintendo, and for modern gaming in general"

"the characters in Skyward Sword are incredible"

"motion control is the way of the future"

"this adventure has it all... an adventure for the ages"

The way of the future? I heard that sentence fail numerous times before... If I didn't know any better, I would say the reviewer is either a Zelda/Nintendo fanboy, or was getting paid by Nintendo. Also, it definitely does not "have it all", since it does NOT have any voice acting, does it? Oh, and as someone else mentioned before, ANY other franchise that would even dare to release a game without voice acting, would probably get its arse beaten about the lack of voice acting. So why the hell does Nintendo get away with mediocrity? Sorry, I don't trust ign, but I do want to hear more from people here.

edit: it looks like it received mixed reviews on amazon, with some people claiming the controls actually decrease the enjoyment of the game...and others complaining about lack of voice acting (I'm not the only one smile

edit2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWu6YeRg2N4&NR=1

Qui-Gon Joe Nov 25, 2011 (edited Nov 25, 2011)

Hey avatar!, have you actually played any of Skyward Sword?  Are you at the very least standing from a position where you can say you actually dislike the game before constantly whining about how there are people out there who like and say so publicly?  I'm trying to imagine what it would be like to have as much free time as would be required to constantly post things to message boards complaining about how silly it is that people like well-reviewed games that I'm not interested in and/or haven't played.

Edit:

I'll throw in my own opinion, as I am 9 hours in.  If you don't like motion control, you will hate this game.  If you aren't willing to actually do REAL motions instead of attempting to just do the waggle thing, you will hate this game.  If you are averse to reading instead of having everything read to you, you will probably hate this game.  If you find yourself being any one of those things, do the rest of us a favor: don't play it and go back to something that you definitely will enjoy and leave those of us who DO like it the heck alone.

The game thus far has been pretty solid.  The beginning was still a little slow for my liking, but a fair bit better than Twilight Princess.  Structurally this is the most different any of the 3D Zeldas have been since Ocarina of Time started the formula.  I'm surprised more people haven't compared this to a weird love child of Zelda and Metroid - I feel like there are more areas than ever where you get to come back with different stuff later and get access to new things using new abilities. 

Motion controls are mostly good for me.  I love all the sword fighting and some of the other stuff (don't want to venture too far into spoiler territory for items), but I'm still not really comfortable controlling Link in free-fall mode or attempting to use the stupid bug net.  It takes a bit of an adjustment to get used to the idea that the game is just using motion plus, not the IR sensor.  I'm used to pointing and this game is just sensing movement.  I also have not had to recalibrate the way a lot of people online seem to be complaining that they have to.  I've only had to do it a couple times, and it's a super quick fix (point at the center of the screen and push down on the d-pad).

Another thing I've noticed is how hard the game is.  You start with 6 hearts and still can die more quickly than in any of the other recent games.  99% of hits from anything take off a full heart, and you WILL get hit until you really start getting used to combat.  Even then they keep adding more elements and the game stays relatively difficult compared to its predecessors.  And that damage never feels cheap, either.  When you get hurt, it's your fault.

...which brings us to my last thought: one of the great things about Nintendo games is their strict QA, and it shows here.  While a lot of games have bugs and glitches and things that still need to get patched later, Skyward Sword is a product that was finished and polished and sent out the door COMPLETE and without random errors to detract from the experience.  I really wish that every company had the resources (or just plain concern) to do that.

That's pretty much all I've got for now, though I'm sure I'm forgetting some element, but I've enjoyed what I've played so far.

avatar! Nov 25, 2011

Qui-Gon Joe wrote:

Hey avatar!, have you actually played any of Skyward Sword?  Are you at the very least standing from a position where you can say you actually dislike the game before constantly whining about how there are people out there who like and say so publicly?  I'm trying to imagine what it would be like to have as much free time as would be required to constantly post things to message boards complaining about how silly it is that people like well-reviewed games that I'm not interested in and/or haven't played.

You have a point... No, I have not yet played it, but I will. You're right, I have been bitching about it for a while, and to be honest, not sure why? Probably because I really expected the next Zelda game to be a step-up from Twilight, and it looks to me like Nintendo actually took a step back, at least in some directions. Well, I promise to stop complaining until after I play smile

As for free time, I don't know where you are, but here in the US it's Thanksgiving weekend, and most everyone has a few days off. OK, maybe not all those who are stuck working in large department stores, or similar jobs, but the rest of us do have an extended weekend.

raynebc Nov 25, 2011

Given that they made a big deal about it from the beginning about it using the motion plus controller, I'd be surprised it it wasn't extremely heavy on motion controls.  My copy should arrive in the mail next week, I have no doubt I'll like this game.

Amazingu Nov 25, 2011

Wow, thanks for the impressions, Qui-Gon.
You've managed to increase my anticipation for this game about tenfold, so I hope it arrives on my doorstep soon!

Wanderer Nov 26, 2011

I'm a few hours into it. Definitely having trouble adjusting to the motion controls. It's nice to have a challenge in a Zelda game but it's hard to shake the feeling it's because the controls weren't as fine-tuned as they could have been. I'm also having difficulty lining up jumps, oddly. Jumping from rooftop to rooftop ends up being more like jumping from rooftop to the ground... or worse, off the island. These things will hopefully fall into place with time.

XLord007 Nov 26, 2011 (edited Nov 26, 2011)

I'm 34 hours in and I've fully adjusted to all the little nuances  Let me see if I can help:

Bug-catching: The secret to this is grace and full range of motion.  For bugs on the ground, lower your net so that it clips into the ground a bit and then very gracefully (read: not fast) swing your arm across your body and you will scoop up bugs with ease.  Make sure to use Z-targeting to lock onto bugs and then approach VERY slowly so you don't scare them off.  They key is to follow through with your swipe.  You can't do a quick wrist flick like in non-Motion Plus games.

Jumping: If you're having trouble lining up jumps, use Z to reposition the camera behind yourself.  Also, always dash when jumping to get extra distance.

Sky-diving: This is more sensitive than you think it is at first.  Best advice I can give you is to fly around Skyloft and do practice dives over different islands and mess with it until you understand the sensitivity.  If you miss an island, just push down on the d-pad to call your bird and try again.

Sword fighting: The hardest part for me was learning not to twist the remote for horizontal slashes.  Vertical ones are easy and diagonal ones just take a little practice.  Remember that you can swing both forwards and backwards, so use that to get extra strikes in (forehand followed by backhand).

SonicPanda Nov 26, 2011

I feel like fate is conspiring against my playing this; every time I think I have the time to squeeze in a bit more something comes up. After a week I'm only past the first dungeon, but man do I want to play more. The opening part is overlong, moreso than TP, and I don't care for the flying controls at all (it's the most irritating parts of riding Epona with the most irritating parts of Mario 64's Flight Cap) but once you get into where you get to apply the actual sword 'n explore guts of it, it's sweet, sweet gravy. If the guy who did this was responsible for the Oracle games, I have to get on those, fast - he's addressed nearly every complaint I had about TP (lengthy intro aside) and made Zelda fresh on a mechanical level for the first time since Wind Waker.
It's been far too long since I've played a Zelda and actually been curious about my limits (I know I have a helper, but I don't listen to her much tactically. I did like her comments on the pooping crows, though), and testing the mechanics while playing blind has been beyond rewarding - I'm glad I resisted the high-pressure strategy-guide sales pitch.
Basically, I love it to bits right now and only hope they can keep it up.

P.S. I am inexplicably obsessed with his hat this time around. I'm starting to annoy my family and friends with calling attention to it. But it's really appealing here.

Kenology Nov 27, 2011

I'm about 34 hours in and I'm toward the end of the 5th dungeon.  I had a fully maxed out Sacred Shield that got destroyed by a Beamos, so I had to re-buy one and am working on upgrading it all over again.  Can't forget that Revitalization Potion.   The game has been pretty much glorious thus far.

I had trouble catching bugs too up until I upgraded my bug net.  I was fine with the mechanics but I just kept missing them on my own because that default net gives you a small margin of error.  The controls have been completely fine for me though, and I love combat.

My only gripe with this game (besides slow text scrolling, which I've gotten used to) is the intrusiveness of Fi.  She's pretty much killing the 5th dungeon for me with her constant hand-holding and forced hints.  The 5th dungeon goes to town with that "Lanayru mechanic" and I'd probably would've taken another hour to figure this place out had she not given me a vital hint (which is forced on you).  They've included Sheikah Stone vids and you can actively ask Fi for hints - so there's no reason for her to be forcing hints on you.  This aside from the "well, duh" moments Fi chimes in on.  I really don't need her to tell me there is something of interest behind a door in a dungeon that contains a boss.  We know that.

Would love for Nintendo to not have the game default to idiot proof.  Zelda really needs difficulty settings from the beginning to limit your sidekicks meddling and let the gamers have fun figuring out the game's nuances themselves.  In fact, we don't even need a sidekick anymore.  I miss the days of pre-Ocarina of Time, when it was just Link and his wits only.  I understand the sidekick is to acclimate new Zelda players but the veterans shouldn't have to be forced to sit through that.

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