http://www.sega.com/gamesite/marioandsonic/index.php

...wtf.

Seems to be real.

Even Nintendo of Japan has the news on their website, and April Fool"s is not really practiced here.

http://www.nintendo.co.jp/corporate/rel … 70328.html

*blinks*

Does Sonic really deserve equal billing with Mario in this day and age?

When are those two going to have a Smashing good Brawl?

You're very anti-Sonic, lol. But all kidding aside, no, Sonic doesn't "deserve equal billing with Mario in this day and age". Sega has mishandled the franchise and tarnished it and it's a mere shadow (no pun intended) of what it was in 16 bit era. The day Nintendo mishandles a Mario game, well... I think they'd scrap it and start all over if that happened despite lost time and money.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mario_Is_Missing

Haha, OK, you got me, I forgot about that game... haha

Not quite sure that fits, Ashley, since you said "Nintendo mishandles a game" when, according to the Wikipedia article, "Since this game was not actually developed by Nintendo or Shigeru Miyamoto (they sublicensed the characters), it bears little resemblance to earlier Mario titles."

True, I was more of less thinking of true-blue mario titles when I said that but I still got to hand it to Zane for pulling that one out of the woodwork, hehe.

Yeah, I'm kind of desperately hoping that Nintendo is the developer on this and not Sega.  If that's the case, maybe Nintendo will make something good out of Sonic rather than Sega driving Mario into the ground too.  :\

Actually, on a serious note, both Mario and Sonic have been on slim ice the past couple years. Sonic hasn't been perfect, but he has starred in some respectable games (notably his GBA/DS platformers...Sonic Rush is amazing). Nothing terribly new, but the core gameplay is always solid, so more is better anyway. Up until New SMB and now Super Paper Mario, I was really sick of seeing Mario's name on everything BUT the type of game that made him famous (2D platformers). Mario Sports, yearly Mario Party, GBA remakes of past adventures and cameos (Mario DDR)...Years of seeing those released with little substance kind of dulled the immunity surrounding Mario to me and he began to feel like a bloated corporate mascot than a beloved game character.

And for what it's worth, I thought Sonic's 3D games (haven't played PS3/360 Sonic nor do I want to...Seven Rings does look interesting though) were way better than Mario 64/Sunshine and captured the essence of of the 2D games far better than Mario's 3D efforts (I'll still play Mario Galaxy, but I'm not approaching it with the same enthusiasm I had for Sunshine or the enthusiasm I have for Super Paper Mario).

*shrug* Sonic's still Sonic. His problem (on top of having too many games out) is he doesn't have a system to be a mascot on anymore. Even in Dreamcast's dying days, SA2 was a pretty huge deal. It didn't quite have the same impact as a GC 3rd party game.

I thought Mario 64 was terrific but Sunshine didn't really hold up for me (mostly because the level designs weren't very interesting).

I didn't like the New SMB. The game was pitifully easy and short. Say what you will about the 3D Marios but they at least last longer than a few hours. I'm GREATLY looking forward to Galaxy (and Metroid Prime 3, natch).

... oh, yeah. I still need to get a Wii. Damn.

I've tried replaying SM64 and ... well, haven't really gotten anywhere in it.  Super Mario Sunshine is better.  SM64 hasn't aged well.  Even so, I do look forward to Super Mario Galaxy.  And maybe a Luigi Mansion Wii.  As for 2D Marios, SMW has aged well.  NSMB was a lot of fun.  Oh, and for all those that were talking it up, I've finished Super Princess Peach completely and found it to be a great game too.

The only good 3D Sonic was Sonic Adventure; the Wii Sonic is ridiculous.  I'd love to try Sonic Rush, but I either overlook it at stores or it isn't there; for some reason, I don't remember it when I'm shopping.  Actually, I've never tried any of the 2D Sonics except for the first on the DC Smash Pack, and really didn't like it.  So maybe I shouldn't.

The mechanics don't really change from game to game, but I never was impressed with Sonic 1. Sonic 2 was when I started hogging my friend's Genesis (never could talk him into getting Sonic 3). Rush is a lot tougher than Sonic 1, at least in the early goings (first game in the series I've seen that is really particular about managing your air underwater). Advance 3 is pretty good, save for the...2D overworld?

I liked the action portions of Adventure 1 and much of Heroes (the homing attack needs work...badly). As far as 3D platformers go, I probably had the most fun with them, cheap deaths aside.

Yeah, I got a press release on that yesterday. Haven't read it too carefully, but I think it sounds awfully interesting, given the characters' abilities in their respective games.

That's a very, very big aside. It's like me saying 'Army Men is a great game, shitness aside'.

I was thinking it would be quite good if, in this, you could play as Mario and have nice jumping control with some precision but, when you switch to Sonic, the game immediately throws the camera in the opposite direction, Sonic runs on his own like some sort of dodgy supermarket trolley and then falls through what should be solid ground to his death. Every time.

I'd be interested if Camelot is developing it, but that's unlikely...

Hahaha, wow. Well put, man.

Kinda sorta...I have more fun ALMOST making a hard jump or a homing attack in a 3D Sonic than I do succeeding in making one in a 3D Mario game. I remember in one early SA1 level, there was a loop I kept falling through (instead of going clean through it), but it was actually enjoyable trying to get through it. It seems the developers managed to make the game fun while leaving in many obvious flaws. Mario Sunshine was too slow and deliberate to be any fun at any point, even when I was doing "well" in the the game. Both had shitty cameras, but the speed and action of Sonic's gameplay effectively made it far less of a hinderance, vs Mario's explorative style.

If this game comes out and I see Mario and Sonic with similar speeds in a dash event, I'm going to call bullshit.

Well you're not wrong there.

I dunno... Mario Sunshine's camera didn't really bother me.  It was the lack of variety in the levels and too much blue coin collecting that hurt it for me.  Also, I am so utterly confused by anyone who thinks the 3D Sonics are better than the 3D Marios.  x_x

It should be noted that the GBA/DS Sonic games are made by Dimps (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimps), not Sonic Team themselves.  For some reason, Sonic Team itself has lost its way when developing Sonic games.

Sonic and the Secret Rings has the speed, but has other bothersome control issues.  (Putting slide and jump on the same button is a problem, for example)

Sonic Rush is easier than Sonic 1, because Sonic 1 lacks continues, you can't replay a stage in Sonic 1, and it is harder to accumulate 1ups in Sonic 1.

Nonsense.
Collect 50 rings in the bonus stages and you get a continue.

Oh I know. And I disagree with the second part. If anything, they've been consistant in NOT fixing the camera since the first SA and basically admitting through the gameplay that the speed and action of the series is more important. Very few times in a 3D Sonic where you should have to seriously fool around with the camera anyway (maybe if you're going for a tricky power-up or just need to regain your bearings).

Rush is not easier than Sonic 1. You can continue as much as you want, but Rush is far more deliberate (and has a lot more holes to fall in). I felt like I got through half of Sonic 1 just using basic platform-game know now, but I've had to learn Rush's levels gradually (like, don't use the Spin Dash in certain spots if you know there's pulleys to grab or where the bubble spots are underwater). By the logic of additional continues, any game played on an emulator and has an "insert coin" option is automatically easier than ones that don't...Which kinda strips away the original meaning of a game actually being "harder".

It's not that confusing. I'm not a massive fan of either camp (I haven't finished either a 3D Mario or Sonic), but like I said: Sonic retains much of the chaotic feel of the 2D games and I like that, to the point where it's the only 3D platformer series I endorse. Mario's 3D games are something almost completely different. Slow, timing-based 3D platformers bore me and are simply unrewarding even when I do well in the game, whereas I actually have fun with Sonic, despite the flaws. Very rarely do I actually replay levels just because they're enjoyable nowadays, but the Casino levels in SH are always a cool way to spend a couple extra minutes.

One other thing: I HATE hub worlds. I hated the one in Mario Sunshine and I loathe the one in Sonic Adventure 1. Sonic Heroes is great because I can pick it up after a long hiatus and just jump right into a level without spending a half hour getting caught up. Rush/Klonoa and the 2D Marios have the right idea of making the stuff navigatable, but utterly simplistic (but the menu-based stuff dumbs it down even further and is far more preferable). That's been a major screw-up for a lot of 3D games.

Or, they're admitting that they're too lazy and/or not talented enough to fix the camera so that it's not terrible. The speed and action are important in Sonic games, but using that as an excuse to justify a consistently shitty camera makes no sense. At all.

Put another way: Compare two songs. One has a shitty melody, the other has a great melody, yet the one with the shitty melody may still be more enjoyable to listen to because of other factors. Same story here.

Sonic's camera is less important than Mario because it's moving forward most of the time, not exploring and I think they realize that. They could definitely use more fixed angles, but that would screw around with the controls if the camera keeps changing places. I think I played Sunshine for about 10 hours and I was always moving the camera around for every little thing. The only times I even bother with it in Heroes is when I need to get my bearings or want to enjoy the scenery. 

It could be better. It isn't. Sonic Team still managed to make their game fun. So they succeeded overall and I'm not going to criticize them more than needed. I acknowledged the camera is bad and the homing attacks are flaky (at best), but the end result is a fun game, so no need to criticize further. Rather, it's more interesting to see why I think it's fun despite the flaws.

Somehow though, I do picture them mapping out crazy jumps and places to gain speed with the free time they have than to actually do something about the camera....

I really see where Goldfish is coming from here... there are a few games I like that have camera issues but I still love'em all the same.

The one game/series that really falls into this category for me is Mega Man Legends. The game's lock on system wasn't very good (hell, you couldn't move when locked on to an enemy - which was fixed in MML2 but it made the typical run around the enemy and shoot them to death thing from the first game even simpler) and you needed to manually move the camera lot to keep up with the action (especially in boss battles) and make up for the lock-on's problems.

Was this annoying? Hell yeah! But I think its only a small flaw in an otherwise excellent game: a story that is pretty good for any MM game considering MM isn't known for it's storytelling, a wonderful cast of characters and villians (some not-so-bad or completely heartless thus easy to love) and clever voice acting (at least it wasn't another RE or MM8).

Of course, after so many renditions or games with a certain game engine/series I think it is acceptable for fans to expect certain bugs be ironed out.

Edit:

I totally left out the Lego Men... errr... I mean Servbots! Yeah, Servbots! All 40 of them rock!

Hmm... while I do see a distinct difference between the 3D Mario games and the 2D ones, I don't see it where you're seeing it.  Look at Super Mario World - it's QUITE a slow 2D platformer that encourages exploration and finding secrets... it's also linked together by a world map that is essentially an overhead view of what we call a hub these days.  And personally I always found it more annoying, as I think it takes longer to get from one end of the world map in SMW to the other than it does to get to and from the most distant parts of the castle in Mario 64.

Anyway, don't get me wrong... I'm not trying to tell you that you're not allowed not to like the 3D Marios - everyone has their own tastes and whatnot. 

It's cool. Nothing like a little healthy debate, especially given the topic. I fully understand I'm in the vast minority of people who actually like the 3D Sonics (though notice I haven't said a thing about SA2 or Shadow...Haven't gotten to 2 and I'm scared to play Shadow, having read about it). I've also gained more of an historical appreciation for them and Sega over the years. From what I've read, Sonic 1 was the game that basically broke Nintendo's near-monopoly, effectively ended the NES's run and stalled the SNES's dominance for about 2 years (at least in the US). It's nice to find out the score from that era, since I was under the Nintendo umbrella the whole time growing up. I remember hating the SEGA! scream ads, but they're like the most awesome thing in the world nowadays. I think Jay's comment just sparked a bit of sympathy in me for Sonic, since the company he's a mascot for can be so incompetent...

As for hubs...I never had a problem with SMW's because I always thought of it as the proper evolution of Mario 3's (read: You can travel between worlds) and it was easy to navigate. I played a bit of Mario 64, but Sunshine is the 3D Mario I'm most familiar with. I just remember I got lost as all f--- in the hub doing stuff, then lost as all f--- once I actually entered the worlds.

You're right about Mario World being a slow game about finding secrets, but it was still paced a lot faster and more straight-forward than the 3D ones and the goal was more or less to make it to the end alive (Sunshine it's to find the shines). I see what you're getting at, since you had to look pretty hard to find everything without a strategy guide, but I always found the most satisfaction in simply clearing the levels and the moment-to-moment jumping/stomping action.

Sonic Adventure 2 is actually the only one I've played... and I enjoyed it quite a bit, despite its flaws (and part of my enjoyment of it might be because I played it together with a friend who played all of those horrible Knuckles/Rouge levels, while I played the Sonic/Shadow ones and we shared the Tails ones).

Yeah, I have a much greater appreciation for Sega now than I used to... they used to be such a brilliant and innovative company.  It makes me so sad to see what they've become.  I'm kind of terrified by the new NiGHTs game!  In the 16 bit era I think I pretty much hated them because my young self couldn't understand why people favored them over our system of choice, the Turbo Grafx.  Then again, I still don't like the 2D Sonic games as my own personal gameplay style prefers the slow but solid work done by Hudson and Nintendo during that era.

Mario Sunshine's town hub is confusing as hell compared to the castle in 64.  Personally I disagree with anyone who says Mario 64 hasn't aged well, as I've been playing it on the virtual console and to this day I think it's more fun and better put together than Mario Sunshine is.

Well, you can disagree with me all you want; I have SM64 on the VC also and it really isn't better than SMS.

On a completely unrelated matter, I would LOVE for some more Klonoa.  I could care less for the 2D GBA ones though.

That's why I find it so utterly tragic that modern day Sonics are so utterly, in my opinion, awful. Of course I don't begrudge you enjoying them, Goldfish, but seeing a series of tight, inventive, beautifully colourful platformers degenerate into a series of barely controllable, pit o' death (even through floors), barely designed 3D messes (even if there is still stuff to enjoy in there) has been a slow painful process of disillusionment.

My opinion is better than YOUR opinion so you're wrooong, nyaaaaaaaaaaaah.

Seriously, consider qualifying things instead of stating what you think as fact. 

Heh, yeah, I was just adding that I have also been trying to replay it via the VC and reiterating my opinion... while admittedly sounding awfully objective.  Sorry.  I'm glad you're still enjoying it.